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  1. #1
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    Default Re: Failure to Obey Posted Sign (Right Turn Only) - California VC 22101(D)

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    If the officer witnessed you going straight through the intersection from the right turn lane and assuming proper placement for the signage, that makes it pretty difficult to argue that you were not in violation.
    Thank you very much for your reply and insight. Would the fact that the street I was driving on was an alley and without turn lanes? How would I determine proper placement for the signage?

    Thanks again!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Failure to Obey Posted Sign (Right Turn Only) - California VC 22101(D)

    Quote Quoting socal123
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    Would the fact that the street I was driving on was an alley and without turn lanes?
    Not the way I see it...

    Here is the Vehicle Code definition of an alley:

    110. "Alley" is any highway having a roadway not exceeding 25 feet in width which is primarily used for access to the rear or side entrances of abutting property; provided, that the City and County of San Francisco may designate by ordinance or resolution as an "alley" any highway having a roadway not exceeding 25 feet in width.


    So as long as it fits within the above definition, then the rules of the road would be equally applicable.

    Here is the Vehicle Code definition of a "Highway":

    360. "Highway" is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel. Highway includes street.


    So, as long as an alley is open to the use of public for purposes of vehicular travel, then (again) the same rules of the road would apply...

    And here is the section you were cited for:
    22101.
    (a) The Department of Transportation or local authorities in respect to highways under their respective jurisdictions, may cause official traffic control devices to be placed or erected within or adjacent to intersections to regulate or prohibit turning movements at such intersections.
    (b) When turning movements are required at an intersection notice of such requirement shall be given by erection of a sign, unless an additional clearly marked traffic lane is provided for the approach to the turning movement, in which event notice as applicable to such additional traffic lane shall be given by any official traffic control device.
    (c) When right- or left-hand turns are prohibited at an intersection notice of such prohibition shall be given by erection of a sign.
    (d) When official traffic control devices are placed as required in subdivisions (b) or (c), it shall be unlawful for any driver of a vehicle to disobey the directions of such official traffic control devices.


    Quote Quoting socal123
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    How would I determine proper placement for the signage?
    You can check the Federal Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices to see whether those particular signs fit the definition of official traffic control devices and then check the California Supplement to that manual to see whether the placement of those signs fits the requirements stated therein.

    Keep in mind that there are often times where perfect placement of such signs can not be achieved and that the engineer can deviate slightly from the Standard/Guidance/Options suggested in those manuals. SO the determining factor here would be whether a reasonable person (no pun intended) can see and properly interpret the sign and the purpose for which it is posted.

    I am not preview to the conversation you had with the officer at the time of the stop or whether you admitted to seeing and misinterpreting the sign (as you stated above)... Though you lack of familiarity with such sign is not a valid defense.

    Sooo.. The only "out" that I can see here is if the officer does not submit his declaration (if you choose to go with the Trial By Declaration option) OR if he does not appear at your trial in court (if you choose the in-court trial option)...

    Good luck!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Failure to Obey Posted Sign (Right Turn Only) - California VC 22101(D)

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    Sooo.. The only "out" that I can see here is if the officer does not submit his declaration (if you choose to go with the Trial By Declaration option) OR if he does not appear at your trial in court (if you choose the in-court trial option)...
    Thank you so VERY MUCH for all the incredibly helpful information and your very astute opinion on this.

    Last questions:

    If I were to pursue a trial (trying to get lucky that the officer doesn't submit a declaration or doesn't appear in court) could I be exposing myself to a harsher sentence, since I obviously failed to obey the posted sign and/or since I didn't have registration and insurance readily available?

    If I chose in-court trial and the officer did appear, would it then be advantageous to plead guilty rather than not guilty (and explaining my misinterpretation of the sign meaning)?

    Do you happen to know the averages of how often the officers do not submit declarations or appear in court? (this is Los Angeles/Beverly Hills Court)

    I apologize for all the questions, but I'm a bit financially challenged right now, so the cost of the ticket and driving school are beyond my budget. Therefore, if there is a way I can get "out" of this (without risking a possible harsher sentence in doing so), then I would very much like to pursue it.

    THANK YOU SO INCREDIBLY MUCH FOR YOUR KIND ASSISTANCE WITH THIS!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Failure to Obey Posted Sign (Right Turn Only) - California VC 22101(D)

    Just following up to see if you saw my last post?

    Thanks!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Failure to Obey Posted Sign (Right Turn Only) - California VC 22101(D)

    Quote Quoting socal123
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    Just following up to see if you saw my last post?

    Thanks!
    Ooopps... Thanks for the nudge.

    Quote Quoting socal123
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    If I were to pursue a trial (trying to get lucky that the officer doesn't submit a declaration or doesn't appear in court) could I be exposing myself to a harsher sentence, since I obviously failed to obey the posted sign
    The fine amount as stated on your courtesy notice is the maximum penalty that you would have to pay regardless of how you choose to defend you case. Whether it be by an in court trial, a TBD, or even if you lose the TBD and then choose to go to a Trial De Novo... EVEN if you choose to appeal the ruling after a trial or a Trial De Novo, the court will not assess any additional monetary fines... So its basically limited to your expending your time and effort. That is as far as the fine amount...

    Keep in mind that if you opt to take the traffic school option, you will have to pay an additional administrative fee to the court (as well as the fee that you would pay to the traffic school itself). The court admin fee ranges between $49 and $69 (the specific amount should be noted on your courtesy notice)
    Quote Quoting socal123
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    since I didn't have registration and insurance readily available?
    You were not cited for failure to provide registration and proof of insurance... So you will not/cannot be penalized for those.

    Quote Quoting socal123
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    If I chose in-court trial and the officer did appear, would it then be advantageous to plead guilty rather than not guilty (and explaining my misinterpretation of the sign meaning)?
    It has been my experience, that you will get an opportunity to change your plea prior to the beginning of the court session (and maybe even take the traffic school option (assuming you are in fact eligible)). You might want to keep your eyes open, assuming you can still recognize the citing officer, to see whether he/she appears, and proceed accordingly.

    Quote Quoting socal123
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    Do you happen to know the averages of how often the officers do not submit declarations or appear in court? (this is Los Angeles/Beverly Hills Court)
    It varies between zero and 100%...

    It depends on the officer, his/her schedule, vacation time, him/her possibly having more personal or professional matters that day... There is no way to tell.

    Quote Quoting socal123
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    I apologize for all the questions, but I'm a bit financially challenged right now, so the cost of the ticket and driving school are beyond my budget.
    Some courts will either offer you a time extension to pay the fine (assuming you plead guilty or are found guilty), others will allow you some sort of payment plan (you should request it from the judge). Just keep in mind that either way, they will charge you an additional fee for that (approximately $30). Whether that will fit into your budget and financial constraints, it is up to you to decide.

    Quote Quoting socal123
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    Therefore, if there is a way I can get "out" of this (without risking a possible harsher sentence in doing so), then I would very much like to pursue it.
    You are free to explain your situation to the judge, and request a fine reduction (whether you do that before or after a trial)... I've seen it happen. But to suggest that he/she will suspend the entire fine amount... Possible but highly unlikely!

    With all that being said, I should also mention that if you choose to either go with a TBD or with an in court trial, the court will require you to post bail in an amount equal to the fine amount (if you get a dismissal it will be refunded/if you lose they keep that same amount). So your ability to fight it maybe limited by your inability to come up with the funds when you enter your plea (appear for your arraignment).
    Quote Quoting socal123
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    THANK YOU SO INCREDIBLY MUCH FOR YOUR KIND ASSISTANCE WITH THIS!
    You're welcome so incredibly much... I just wished I could have offered you a better solution or one where you can mitigate your damages to a minimum. Sorry!

    Please update us with the outcome... Good luck!

  6. #6
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    Smile Re: Failure to Obey Posted Sign (Right Turn Only) - California VC 22101(D)

    Thank you!!

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