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  1. #1
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    Default Re: Demeaning Parole Agent

    Quote Quoting tenantweary
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    Thank you all for your feedback.

    4th DUI, 16 month prison conviction. Standard California sentencing is 1/2 time with 1 year formal parole, 6 months parole if the felony is nonviolent. He's past 6 months and has not been discharched by his agent.

    Here is a link to an editorial on California's parole policy: http://articles.latimes.com/2007/oct...oe-petersilia8

    My cousin, because he's a very good worker, has always had job offers in various fields. He has been hired even when his employeer knew he had three dui's. With 4 dui's he's being offered a job as a network administrator for an accounting firm in Irvine, CA. He didn't even apply for the job, its his reputation as a competent hardworking IT person. I've seen him walk others through troubleshooting sessions, over the phone, with no computer in front of him. And he doesn't even charge people!

    Regarding his drinking, here is a link regarding soldiers who see combat and levels of substance abuse: http://www.soldiersheart.org/education/

    He's not a party animal, he's a recluse who, in the past sought solice through self medicating with alcohol.

    I'm offended at how he has been treated. He went to the VA in Los Angeles seeking help for PTSD 8 years ago, his psych told him nothing was wrong with him and that would be 80 dollars for asking. No free vet groups were started. He started one himself, creating a website where vets could talk to other vets about their post military experiences. It has 50 active members who support each other in dealing with their emotions.

    This is all just a minor inconvenience. Despite it all he's still financially independent, and has a bright future. He just finds it demeaning to be placed in the same category as gangsters and druggies who he found to be repulsive during his stint in prison.

    Thank you all for your feedback.

    One more link. Here is how seriously our department of corrections take dui's: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...n165741S82.DTL
    I am profoundly sorry that you look to a dui conviction (as a consequence of driving drunk at least four times and potentially killing who knows how many people) as a minor inconvenience.

  2. #2
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    May 2008
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    Default Re: Demeaning Parole Agent

    Quote Quoting ashman165
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    I am profoundly sorry that you look to a dui conviction (as a consequence of driving drunk at least four times and potentially killing who knows how many people) as a minor inconvenience.
    If we start imprisoning people for what may happen as a consequence of their actions, we need to start shipping our returning vets straight to prisons. They'll be angry disorientated, not sure how they fit in civilian life and prone to substance abuse. When and if they ask for help they probably won't get it and if help exists for them they probably can't afford it. But lets be sure to wear yellow ribbon stickers on our H2's.

    The minor inconvenience is his treatment post prison, not his dui's. His website is geared toward his battalion of aproximatley 500 infantry soldiers and of them 50 report problems with substance abuse, and difficulty rentering the civilan world, etc. Thats only the ones who have found his site. Thats a whopping 10% already. How many vets do we have in Iraq and Afganistan?

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    The other article you link says nothing about a CONVICTION, only that he was stopped and charged with DUI ... likely a first one.
    This article failed to mention he was returning from a womens prison in Cowchilla, CA after giving a presentation to prisoners on how to succesfully complete parole. After this, going to a government function, having a few, him and his deputy, then drving home. Also likely, a lifestyle.

    For those who have zero tolerance for dui's, you'll be happy to know of the following stats, which i'm not saying valdiates their dui's. What i'm saying is that vets need programs to help them avoid following into patterns like my cousin, who has reached out many times to the VA but has been shunned aside like used goods.

    http://www.recoverymonth.gov/2006/ki.../military.aspx

    For those of you who feel he is a common criminal, just wait until someone you love, who you believe to be a good upright person, gets caught up in the system.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Demeaning Parole Agent

    A "good, upright person" does not tend to get caught four times for DUI. He has made some serious mistakes and has had to pay the penalty for those mistakes. They were conscious decisions on his part. From what you say, it would seem he has learned nothing from his foibles. Hopefully that is not the case, and he has learned that driving after drinking is a very dangerous thing. But, it's often hard to relate that lesson if nothing bad HAS happened.

    Certainly, not enough is being done to assist veterans, but that's a separate issue. His PTSD did not make him drink and drive, and claiming that his stress did so can be rather demeaning to the majority of such veterans who get along fine and follow the law without endangering the general public.

    I hope he will learn from his past and will clean up his life. It's not easy, but it can be done. (I've been sober for 18 years, 3 months and 12 days ... it's actually a great thing.)

    - Carl

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Demeaning Parole Agent

    I guess we'll just have to disagree. I can't find the stats but i believe it takes 6 troops to support 1 combat troop. The combat troops are the ones at risk.

    Your position is that if 1 troop of 10 have problems, this has nothing to do with the other 9 who have no problems and citing one's combat experience, demeans others succesful rentry.

    My position is all 10 need help and it is unamerican to treat combat vets like common criminals. My cousin says County Jail now has a veterans dorm, which was a Godsend for him, he was there 6 weeks.

    He's been through so much, has stopped drinking, still suffers from depression. I'll have to tell him, not to seek help from anyone but his family. And to discourage all those who look to serve their country, as it seems there is no support once your out.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Demeaning Parole Agent

    No one is treating the vets like criminals, they are treating vets who commit crimes as criminals. I know a number of people who suffer from PTSD to one degree or another, and thus far none have managed to commit the same crime four times. Some have problems - including alcoholism - but no DUIs that I can recall. Therefore, PTSD does not cause a person to drink and drive. That's a decision he made.

    We do not excuse crimes because someone got a raw deal. A raw deal may explain the "why" of it, but it does not make it alright.

    Perhaps you would not be so forgiving if you or a family member were grievously injured or killed by a DUI driver who claimed PTSD. A friend of mine (an officer) was shot in the head and nearly killed by a guy who claimed to be going through a PTSD related episode ... his problems did not excuse his behavior and he went to prison (and is still there).

    I am glad to hear that he is no longer drinking, and wish him nothing but the best. But, if I drives drunk again, I hope they throw the book at him.

    - Carl

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Demeaning Parole Agent

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    No one is treating the vets like criminals, they are treating vets who commit crimes as criminals. ...Therefore, PTSD does not cause a person to drink and drive. That's a decision he made.
    I thought this whole post was about being slandered by a parole officer, treating a vet like a common criminal. My mistake.

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    A friend of mine (an officer) was shot in the head and nearly killed by a guy who claimed to be going through a PTSD related episode ... his problems did not excuse his behavior and he went to prison (and is still there).
    I've noticed a spike in violent crimes commited by vets, hence the vets dorm in LA county prison. I expect you can expect a lot more of these types of events as there is not a support system for troops who are trained in the use of deadly force, who are expected to reassimilate into society. I know that places like FT Bragg don't talk about the amount of spousal abuse that occurs, or the amount of alcohol abuse.

    [QUOTE=cdwjava;255903]
    I am glad to hear that he is no longer drinking, and wish him nothing but the best. But, if I drives drunk again, I hope they throw the book at him.
    [QUOTE=cdwjava;255903]

    You pretty much sum up the way society deals with our vets. You defend the WHAT to do with offender, but not they WHY are they offending? No support, lock em up and throw away the key if they can't assimilate. Build prisons with insurance money and let the prisoners earn their keep. It really save on the workers comp. Its all very neat.

    I suspect a great many people feel as you do. Prison guards had no sympathy for him, except for the, yup, vets. The school staff could not believe he was in there, and the VA never answered his letters for what programs might be available to him upon his release.

    Thanks for all the feedback. It's become crystal in my mind how people rationalize his treatment.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Demeaning Parole Agent

    Quote Quoting tenantweary
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    I thought this whole post was about being slandered by a parole officer, treating a vet like a common criminal. My mistake.
    It started off that way, but as these posts are wont to do, it got sidetracked.

    But, he has already done what he can - he has asked for a new parole officer. And, of course, he can consult an attorney about a possible suit for slander. It's not likely to happen unless he can show some damage and show intent on the part of the parole officer. Without either, such a suit will fall flat.

    I know that places like FT Bragg don't talk about the amount of spousal abuse that occurs, or the amount of alcohol abuse.
    Yes, it is quite high. I have a friend high up in the medical services command with the National Guard in Sacramento and he tells some similar stories - particularly at a posting a few years back in the desert.

    You pretty much sum up the way society deals with our vets. You defend the WHAT to do with offender, but not they WHY are they offending?
    Solutions are multi-pronged. Help IS available within the institutions to some degree, but much of it requires that the individual to be treated SEEK the help. It has been more than 30 years since the state has been able to lock up people who were "not right" simply because they were eccentric or mentally ill. If they will not seek help or get compelled to obtain treatment (usually by the criminal justice system, oddly enough) they can't just go sweep them up off the street.

    I suspect a great many people feel as you do.
    You have no idea how I feel. Nor do you know my experiences in the military or otherwise.

    The point is that he broke the law and committed a felony because of his repeated law violations. he has had opportunity for assistance and apparently they fell flat. We can argue over whose responsibility they are all day. But, since we do not live in the nanny state (not yet ... though that may change over the next four years) people still need to take some responsibility for their actions and treatment. Four times is not an accident. if he is so ill that he has no self control, then he needs to be locked up. Since he is apparently otherwise functional, he is capable of rational thought and understands his actions. He needs to assist in his treatment and he needs to acknowledge he has a problem - a SERIOUS problem - with alcohol. As I said, I hope he's done with the alcohol. If so, then maybe he can settle down to address any other lingering issues. These other issues might be much easier to address if he is no longer drinking.

    - Carl

  8. #8
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    Washington comma the Great State of.
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    Default Re: Demeaning Parole Agent

    [QUOTE=tenantweary;255918]I thought this whole post was about being slandered by a parole officer, treating a vet like a common criminal. My mistake.



    I've noticed a spike in violent crimes commited by vets, hence the vets dorm in LA county prison. I expect you can expect a lot more of these types of events as there is not a support system for troops who are trained in the use of deadly force, who are expected to reassimilate into society. I know that places like FT Bragg don't talk about the amount of spousal abuse that occurs, or the amount of alcohol abuse.

    [QUOTE=cdwjava;255903]
    I am glad to hear that he is no longer drinking, and wish him nothing but the best. But, if I drives drunk again, I hope they throw the book at him.
    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post

    You pretty much sum up the way society deals with our vets. You defend the WHAT to do with offender, but not they WHY are they offending? No support, lock em up and throw away the key if they can't assimilate. Build prisons with insurance money and let the prisoners earn their keep. It really save on the workers comp. Its all very neat.

    I suspect a great many people feel as you do. Prison guards had no sympathy for him, except for the, yup, vets. The school staff could not believe he was in there, and the VA never answered his letters for what programs might be available to him upon his release.

    Thanks for all the feedback. It's become crystal in my mind how people rationalize his treatment.
    In August of 1999, my partner was shot and killed by a drunk veteran. He shot her three times. Once in the chest, once in the head and once in the back as she lay on the ground dead. Does being a veteran somehow give anyone special rights to be a bad citizen?

    Veterans are people who took an oath to protect the innocent, to obey the laws of this country and support and defend it. Intentionally going out of one's way to violate the laws which in part guarantee our freedom is a grave disservice to that ideal.

    That he's a veteran doesn't make him a special subset of criminals deserving of the right to break what laws he sees fit.

    Treat him like a common criminal? He is. Claiming that simply because he's veteran he had no choice completely demeans the sacrifice of those who've served and come home and chosen not to drive drunk, or otherwise intentionally put the lives of innocent people at stake.

    Incidentally, had he chosen to: walk drunk, get a ride, hire a cab (you said he makes good money), drink at home or at a friend's house, he would have no occasion to know this parole officer. And the PO might be a jerk, but that alone isn't illegal. Cops are allowed to be rude.

    Alcoholism is often the result of trauma; driving drunk, however, is not.

    "No one is treating the vets like criminals, they are treating vets who commit crimes as criminals." - Carl. And rightly so. It's entirely possible to be both a criminal and a veteran. This is compounded by the fact that he's 4 times been convicted of this.

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