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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
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    7

    Default Re: Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
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    To start at the top, you consumed products and had squirreled away other products that you didn't pay for. Why doesn't really matter. Theft can happen unintentionally though to claim that you "forgot" is a common response by shoplifters. AP's job is not to believe you, it's to protect their employers assets.

    LP doesn't have to convince anyone about anything. If you were questioned you're already in hot water even if you didn't know it. You're claiming that it's funny or some sort of joke to someone is really you overstating your importance. LP, store management and corporate don't care about you. They care about your perceived theft. By the time their coming to you about it they've made up their mind and have more evidence about it than a few bottles. I presume they have footage.

    If you were arrested and the DA is pursuing criminal charges (this is not Walmart's prerogative, it's the DA's) then I'm guessing they have more on you than a few bottles in the trash as well. You need an attorney.

    Finally, you can view this as disrespectful but you may want to look at it from the their side. You consumed their products that you didn't pay for. I'm sure they could view it as insulting and disrespectful, especially since you are the one in the wrong by your own admission but LP and corporate will view this in a very impersonal and businesslike way though at the store level it may feel more personal.

    Get an attorney.
    I missed TWO important factors in my case. They need INTENT to steal for probable cause and sufficient evidence of a crime. Without INTENT to steal, they can't pursue the case; I'm going to get it dismissed come hell or high water.

    1) I live at home, no kids, no car payment, no credit card payments, no medical bills, food is free at home. I made $1,350/month. No debt.

    2) I'm an employee, not a customer. Employee theft is a total different scenario when it comes to INTENT and probable cause -- we work KNOWING we're being watched. With me, part of my job is to stop theft by watching the door; it's in my job description as the lead cashier in Garden Center. They HAVE to take that into consideration. My request.


    * Most theft cases are people who steal something they want or need. Maybe they're poor and it's for their kids. Maybe they seen a $3.00 keychain and care nothing about law or ethics.

    Where is the intent to steal, if they won't dismiss?

    Either way one thing is for sure. I'm in this mess because Asset Protection said, almost in these exact words:

    "We know Cory always pays for his consumed items at his register, but we noticed a few of those items were thrown in the trash and not paid for on his lunch or break as usual. We believe Cory has pretended to forget those items as a way of trying to get away with stealing from Wal-Mart"

    ....so where is the intent to steal?

    Forgetting is grounds for a write-up or termination. Barely.

    You don't call the cops on an employee who forgot to pay for his consumables - I don't care how many bottles of water it was. The right thing to do is call me into the office on the second bottle and mention that if it happens again I'll get a write up. That's policy.

    I could see if it was a customer.

    AP knew it and did nothing about it because they thought they could get me fired and arrested; like hunting for pray. I bet they sat their in the room waiting, thinking "come on, come on, just do it one more time and we can get you"

    It was probably that mentality that caused them to wrongly and falsely accuse one of their own for a crime that their fellow business co-worker did not commit.

    They owe me an apology.

    (And I really am innocent, so I can demand that from them AND Wal-Mart)

    BTW man, if I were to call corporate and say that I have been wrongly accused of theft and REQUEST A REVIEW OF THE VIDEO TAPES and DEMAND my job back, then they would probably hire me back at a 25 cent pay raise. Wal-Mart is a people-person down to earth company who takes very good care of their employees.

    I should call corporate now that I think about it. It would look good in court if Wal-Mart admits they made a mistake and apologized for wrongly accusing their hard working employee for something as hilarious as bottles of water and a bag of chips.

    LOL....

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    8,238

    Default Re: Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    Quote Quoting CoryD
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    I missed TWO important factors in my case. They need INTENT to steal for probable cause and sufficient evidence of a crime. Without INTENT to steal, they can't pursue the case; I'm going to get it dismissed come hell or high water.
    Most crimes are general intent offices, including theft. Thus, intent is typically not hard to prove. They don't have to prove that you intended to commit a crime. What the law requires for general intent is that you intended to do what you did, i.e. that you intended to consume the water and not pay for it. The problem for you is that in general a person is presumed to have intended to do those things that he actually does. If you cross the street, you are assumed to have intended to do that because it takes a deliberate choice to do it. Similarly if you consume goods and didn't pay for them, you are presumed to have intended to do that. It is very difficult to convince a court that you simply "forgot" to pay for it. Thieves claim that every day and lose.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,279

    Default Re: Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    Quote Quoting CoryD
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    I missed TWO important factors in my case. They need INTENT to steal for probable cause and sufficient evidence of a crime. Without INTENT to steal, they can't pursue the case; I'm going to get it dismissed come hell or high water.
    Good luck with that.

    Generally there are just a few elements that need to be proved to establish the elements of theft:

    1. Taking
    2. Property of another
    3. Intent to permanently deprive.

    Based solely on your own statements, you took the property of another.

    The intent to permanently deprive is established by the fact that you consumed the items and threw away the wrappers without paying for them as per normal authorized practice.

    Probable cause is established when based on the facts presented, a reasonable and prudent person believes that a crime has been committed. Again, based on the facts as you described them, I would have believed you committed a theft. As others have said, "I forgot to pay" is a common lie told by thieves when they get caught. The burden of proving that you actually forgot rests with you and not the other way around.

    I have read all you posts and the best advice I can offer is that the more you run your mouth, the more you say things that incriminate yourself. At this point you are a sinking ship that is foolishly taking on more cargo to ensure that you go under and sink quicker and deeper. Shut you mouth and hire an attorney.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    8,238

    Default Re: Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    Quote Quoting CoryD
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    1) I live at home, no kids, no car payment, no credit card payments, no medical bills, food is free at home. I made $1,350/month. No debt.
    Not at all helpful to you. This argument is basically one that says only the poor steal. That's not even remotely true. You do know that even celebrities who are millionaires have been convicted of shoplifting, right? How rich or poor you are has really no bearing on whether you stole anything.

    Quote Quoting CoryD
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    2) I'm an employee, not a customer. Employee theft is a total different scenario when it comes to INTENT and probable cause -- we work KNOWING we're being watched. With me, part of my job is to stop theft by watching the door; it's in my job description as the lead cashier in Garden Center. They HAVE to take that into consideration. My request.
    What does that prove? The fact that you know that you are being watched does not mean you didn't steal. Do you know how many people know that stores have video and other security and try stealing because they think they are more clever than the store and can hide what they are doing. The fact is that employee theft is a big problem for retailers, so obviously the fact that those employees know they might be watched doesn't deter them from committing the theft. This isn't a very strong argument for trying to negate general intent.

    Quote Quoting CoryD
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    ....so where is the intent to steal?
    If they have evidence that you consumed company products without paying for them then they have evidence that you intended to consume those goods and not pay for them. And that's pretty much all they need to make their prima facie case, i.e. to meet their initial burden of providing enough evidence to support that you committed the crime. Once the state has done that, it's up to you to present evidence and arguments to rebut what the state has put forward.

    Quote Quoting CoryD
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    Forgetting is grounds for a write-up or termination. Barely.
    You can try to argue to the jury that you simply "forgot" to pay for it if you go to trial. But let me tell you, that defense is not often a winner. A lot of shoplifters try the line that they "forgot" to pay, too, and still end up convicted. People tend not to believe those claims because that's exactly what a thief would say, too.

    As for grounds for termination, the employer may fire you for any reason at all except for a few reasons prohibited by law. The employer can fire you just for wearing green socks on a Wednesday if it wanted. Sure, that might be a stupid reason to fire someone, but legally the employer may do just that. It certainly could fire you for not paying for products you consume without paying for them regardless of the reason why you didn't pay.


    Quote Quoting CoryD
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    BTW man, if I were to call corporate and say that I have been wrongly accused of theft and REQUEST A REVIEW OF THE VIDEO TAPES and DEMAND my job back, then they would probably hire me back at a 25 cent pay raise. Wal-Mart is a people-person down to earth company who takes very good care of their employees.

    I should call corporate now that I think about it. It would look good in court if Wal-Mart admits they made a mistake and apologized for wrongly accusing their hard working employee for something as hilarious as bottles of water and a bag of chips.
    Good luck with that. Go ahead and try it. I think you'll find after you make the call that you will still be unemployed.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    47.606 N 122.332 W in body, still at 90 S in my mind.
    Posts
    1,678

    Default Re: Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    Quote Quoting CoryD
    View Post
    I missed TWO important factors in my case. They need INTENT to steal for probable cause and sufficient evidence of a crime. Without INTENT to steal, they can't pursue the case; I'm going to get it dismissed come hell or high water.

    1) I live at home, no kids, no car payment, no credit card payments, no medical bills, food is free at home. I made $1,350/month. No debt.

    2) I'm an employee, not a customer. Employee theft is a total different scenario when it comes to INTENT and probable cause -- we work KNOWING we're being watched. With me, part of my job is to stop theft by watching the door; it's in my job description as the lead cashier in Garden Center. They HAVE to take that into consideration. My request.


    * Most theft cases are people who steal something they want or need. Maybe they're poor and it's for their kids. Maybe they seen a $3.00 keychain and care nothing about law or ethics.

    Where is the intent to steal, if they won't dismiss?

    Either way one thing is for sure. I'm in this mess because Asset Protection said, almost in these exact words:

    "We know Cory always pays for his consumed items at his register, but we noticed a few of those items were thrown in the trash and not paid for on his lunch or break as usual. We believe Cory has pretended to forget those items as a way of trying to get away with stealing from Wal-Mart"

    ....so where is the intent to steal?

    Forgetting is grounds for a write-up or termination. Barely.

    You don't call the cops on an employee who forgot to pay for his consumables - I don't care how many bottles of water it was. The right thing to do is call me into the office on the second bottle and mention that if it happens again I'll get a write up. That's policy.

    I could see if it was a customer.

    AP knew it and did nothing about it because they thought they could get me fired and arrested; like hunting for pray. I bet they sat their in the room waiting, thinking "come on, come on, just do it one more time and we can get you"

    It was probably that mentality that caused them to wrongly and falsely accuse one of their own for a crime that their fellow business co-worker did not commit.

    They owe me an apology.

    (And I really am innocent, so I can demand that from them AND Wal-Mart)

    BTW man, if I were to call corporate and say that I have been wrongly accused of theft and REQUEST A REVIEW OF THE VIDEO TAPES and DEMAND my job back, then they would probably hire me back at a 25 cent pay raise. Wal-Mart is a people-person down to earth company who takes very good care of their employees.

    I should call corporate now that I think about it. It would look good in court if Wal-Mart admits they made a mistake and apologized for wrongly accusing their hard working employee for something as hilarious as bottles of water and a bag of chips.

    LOL....
    A lot of this ws covered by others so I'll not belabor their points.

    You can be terminated for anything. Anything at all. They don't have to have an excuse, by and large, and theft is certainly one to get you shown the door whether or not it meets your definition.

    Cops get called on employees who steal all the time, just like shoplifters. What makes you so special?

    LP may well have been waiting to pounce on you. It's their job.

    You are not "one of their own". I don't know what you think that means but Walmart is not an exclusive club that offers it's protection to you.

    No one owes you an apology. I'd be shocked if anyone apologized to you after you were caught stealing. Before you say that you didn't bear in mind that they were sure enough to have LP deal with you and for them to call the police.

    Go ahead, call Corporate. Walmart is not known for taking good care of its employees. Walmart is known for stiffing them on OT, union-busting, offering healthcare in the form of helping employees fill out Medicaid paperwork which is aided by their low wages. Additionally, calling Corporate won't help your case in court. You don't understand that your issues with Walmart and your legal issues are only loosely connected.

    That you find al of this hilarious is clear evidence of your lack of understanding of the consequences of your allegedly inattentive actions. This can impact your ability to get jobs in retail, handling money and the like, especially if you are convicted of theft, which, again is likely if the prosecutor is willing to move forward with this case.

    Again, get an attorney.

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