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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    12

    Question Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    I made a delivery in a company truck in a gated residential community that they call a country club last week. I was so tired and I may have let the truck to roll faster downhill than intended, a "public safety officer" gave me a citation for speeding 10 miles/hour more than the speed limit. I was so tired and didn't think and gave him my driver license when he asked for it, then he told me that this citation didn't affect my driver license and told me to call the phone # on the paper to ask how much the citation was. I was at least smart enough not to sign the citation, not sure if it made any difference. I suddenly realized that this is a private property, and he may not be a real cop. Is public safety officer considered police? I should refuse to give him my driver license.

    My questions:
    1. What if I don't pay the citation? Can they send it to collection agency? The citation contained my name, address, company truck licence plate and description, time and date. But it didn't show my driver license #, not sure if he even wrote it down at all. The citation is paid to the country club, not government. The citation doesn't look like a real traffic ticket, just a small piece that say Rule Violation Citation. I haven't called the phone # for the citation cost, and don't plan to.
    2. What if I refused to show him my driver license at the time? Could he call the real cop and would I get a real citation for real? I just want to know what to do next time I encounter situation like this. Of course, I won't speed again, but mistake happens.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,287

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    What does it say on the citation? Is it a "Notice to appear" with a court date and the name of a law enforcement agency?

    When you were stopped, were the lights on the patrol vehicle red & blue? Or, were they only yellow? Red and blue would indicate law enforcement, yellow to the front would indicate security.

    And what code section is listed on the cite?
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    The citation says:
    Rule violation: 1.02.1.B, Speeding 35 mph.
    It has Name, time, date, address, location, barcode #, Lic #, Vehicle Make, Color, comments, acknowledgement of receipt, signature of the public safety officer. The weird thing is that it has employee #. No "notice to appear" with any court date and name of the law enforcement agency. On the top, it said something something Country Club, Rule Violation Citation. 6490 at the upper right hand corner.
    I don't remember what light color, I didn't even notice him behind me until a security guard stopped me at the gate because it had no sound.

    The weird thing was that he told me that the citation won't affect my driver license. Does it mean it's not a real traffic ticket?


    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    What does it say on the citation? Is it a "Notice to appear" with a court date and the name of a law enforcement agency?

    When you were stopped, were the lights on the patrol vehicle red & blue? Or, were they only yellow? Red and blue would indicate law enforcement, yellow to the front would indicate security.

    And what code section is listed on the cite?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,287

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    Citations in CA are standardized and they all look very similar as a matter of law.

    1.02.1.B does not match ANY state law, and it does not conform to any county or municipal code I have ever seen. Nor does it generate a hit to any local government code online.

    Who does it say you must pay a fine to? Does it give instructions as to what you have to do?

    This sounds like a homeowners association or security thing and not law enforcement. If you reside in the confines of the residential association this little thing could cause you problems if you do not take care of it.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    It said mail the check to something something Country Club "Attn: Public Safety Administration". I don't think it's a government agency.
    How do I know if I reside in the confines of the residential association? I don't live there. I don't have HOA at the place I live now, I don't even own a house. What kind of trouble can they cause me? Can they send to collection agency if I don't pay?

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    Citations in CA are standardized and they all look very similar as a matter of law.

    1.02.1.B does not match ANY state law, and it does not conform to any county or municipal code I have ever seen. Nor does it generate a hit to any local government code online.

    Who does it say you must pay a fine to? Does it give instructions as to what you have to do?

    This sounds like a homeowners association or security thing and not law enforcement. If you reside in the confines of the residential association this little thing could cause you problems if you do not take care of it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,287

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    Quote Quoting highrollers
    View Post
    It said mail the check to something something Country Club "Attn: Public Safety Administration". I don't think it's a government agency.
    How do I know if I reside in the confines of the residential association? I don't live there. I don't have HOA at the place I live now, I don't even own a house. What kind of trouble can they cause me? Can they send to collection agency if I don't pay?
    Sounds like a civil thing to me. And you should know if you live inside the association's property. If you do, you may be required to pay pursuant to those covenants. If not, then I doubt there is anything they can really do ... aside from barring you entrance to the property in the future, perhaps.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    Next time if I face situation like this again, should I refuse to give him my driver license? Can they call real cop and issue me a real citation?

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    Sounds like a civil thing to me. And you should know if you live inside the association's property. If you do, you may be required to pay pursuant to those covenants. If not, then I doubt there is anything they can really do ... aside from barring you entrance to the property in the future, perhaps.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,287

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    Quote Quoting highrollers
    View Post
    Next time if I face situation like this again, should I refuse to give him my driver license? Can they call real cop and issue me a real citation?
    Maybe. Hard to say without knowing where this was. You are under no LEGAL obligation to provide identification to private security, but, that does not mean that there will not be consequences of some kind such as a detention for the "real" police, or a detention/arrest for trespassing or something else.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    791

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    Quote Quoting highrollers
    View Post
    The citation says:
    Rule violation: 1.02.1.B, Speeding 35 mph.
    That section probably is based on something called “Model Penal Code” which appears in business law courses on college and university law school sites:

    Quote Quoting Model Penal Code § 1.02(1)(b)
    to subject to public control persons whose conduct indicates that they are disposed to commit crimes
    So probably they have adapted this standard language to their homeowner’s association rules in order to penalize residents and regular visitors for potentially unsafe conduct (and no doubt as well as to bring in more revenue to offset operating expenses).

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Paso Robles, California
    Posts
    482

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    I would suggest that instead of just ignoring the so-called citation, you write a letter to the address on the citation letting them know that you wish to contest the citation and need to know what their process is for doing this. IF there is a process, which I doubt there is, I would bet that the citing officer does not know how to lay the requisite foundation for his prosecution and prove "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" that you were in fact speeding. This will put the ball back in their court.
    *****
    I may not always be right, but I am never wrong.

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