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Concealing the Whereabouts, Second Attempt at an Answer

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  • 03-20-2010, 03:06 AM
    emanon
    Concealing the Whereabouts, Second Attempt at an Answer
    This is in response to a previous post. http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97017

    I paid legalguru.com $40 to give me an answer. I was told not to call the police, but to contact the child abduction division of my State Attorney's office. Well, there's not a child abduction division in the State Attorney's office that covers the area of Florida in which I lived. I was told to call the police.

    I was a little reluctant to call the police. I hate feeling like a troublemaker, but I called. Since I'm in California, I cannot physically file a report with them. They would need me to make the report in person.

    I can't file a report in this state (which happens to be 3,000 miles away) because this state doesn't have jurisdiction. I'm not scheduled to return until the 30th. I was told that I could go straight to the police station from there if I didn't get a hold of her dad and find out where he's keeping her, whether he plans to return her, and why she hasn't been attending school.

    Everything's been copacetic for two years. I don't know what to do. We've gotten along so well! This doesn't even feel real. I just keep refreshing my screen, hoping someone has some information. Instead, people have their own problems. So I've just busied myself researching other people's answers. It's actually a good distraction. Some vacation I'm on. I miss my daughter.
  • 03-20-2010, 01:50 PM
    aardvarc
    Re: Concealing the Whereabouts, Second Attempt at an Answer
    Unless the child is considered missing and endangered, even the police aren't going to step in at this point. This is a civil dispute over a court order, and the only way you'll solve it is by demonstrating to the court that issued the order that the parent's actions and lack of disclosure of information is in violation of that order. You need to get back to your jurisdiction and request a hearing ASAP. At THAT point the courts can consider warrants for things like parental adbuction or other possibilities. If you've got some evidence to take to police or child protective services that would make a reasonable person believe that the child is in some immediate danger, then the filing of a report is most certainly appropriate - but you'll have a hard time convincing them of that if you willingly turned the child over for visitation without even knowing the residential address of the other parent, which tells the courts and other parties that you were somewhat confident in the ability of this parent to care for the child (and you don't know where to ask police to check on the child's welfare, assuming she's not living at the address on her drivers license).
  • 03-20-2010, 02:34 PM
    jk
    Re: Concealing the Whereabouts, Second Attempt at an Answer
    Part of what I am not understanding is: if you are not able to have the child with you, why is it wrong for the other parent to have the child with them?

    Quote:

    So I arranged to have our daughter's grandmother look after her while I was away. He then arranged with the grandmother, on March 6th, without talking to me, to hand the daughter over to him.
    especially since the child did not live with the grandmother, I would think the child should be with the other parent if you are not available. Is there something in your court order that would prevent the other parent from keeping the child with them?

    Quote:

    He's filed for Sole Custody, Modification of Visitation, Modification of Child Support, and Objection to Relocation. I never got those. He must have sent them to my apartment even though I told him on the 26th of February that my lease ended that month. I followed up with the text on the 3rd saying what my new address was.

    He filed all these on March 9th.
    should be an address in those filings


    Quote:

    I haven't even relocated with our daughter. He knows I want to, we discussed it, but I was going to leave her with him while I decided.
    I would suggest this is not entirely your sole decision. In most situations, the courts would have to be involved in removing a child from the state.

    so, basically unless you have reason to believe something has happened to the child and other parent, about all you can do is wait until you get back to Florida. Considering the fact you express such concern about this, why have you not returned to Florida to deal with it. That in itself shows you are not concerned that something sinister has happened to them.

    So, you either go back to Florida now to deal with this or wait until you get back. Unless there is something in the child custody order that would prevent the other parent from having the child with them while you are out of the area such as you are, I would suggest a court might not be too pleased at the effort to disallow the other parent from having their child with them without any justification.
  • 03-20-2010, 03:46 PM
    emanon
    Re: Concealing the Whereabouts, Second Attempt at an Answer
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    Part of what I am not understanding is: if you are not able to have the child with you, why is it wrong for the other parent to have the child with them?

    I offered him an agreement that I could file with the court stating that he would exercise additional parenting time from March 1st until March 31st. He did not want to sign this agreement.

    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    especially since the child did not live with the grandmother, I would think the child should be with the other parent if you are not available. Is there something in your court order that would prevent the other parent from keeping the child with them?

    The child has lived with the grandmother. I actually stayed with the grandmother for the entirety of our three year long divorce and custody battle, because he filed a motion to keep me from living "unsupervised." A motion that actually worked in my favor because it was laughable, but I complied with it to keep from starting trouble. The grandmother and the child are fully bonded, and she actually exercises visitation rights as well, as Florida is a state which is amenable to grandparets who seek to have their rights legally defined. It's an "old people" state, so this shouldn't be surprising. We also kept out that "first right to refusal" language from our Final Judgment. So, if he needs someone else to watch our daughter during his parenting time, he doesn't have to first offer that time to me.

    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    should be an address in those filings

    I don't have those filings. They were not served to either the address where I am vacationing or my current address.

    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    I would suggest this is not entirely your sole decision. In most situations, the courts would have to be involved in removing a child from the state.

    I never said it was. We had discussed a relocation agreement. If we filed a Relocation agreement, he could file an Objection to Relocation within 10 days after the signing to request an evidentiary hearing. If we couldn't agree on that, I could file a Notice of Intent to Relocate. He could then file an Objection to Relocation within 30 days after the filing of that document.

    I offered a schedule where he would get all of Winter, Mid-Winter (a week in February... a California thing), Spring, and Summer Break. He didn't think that was enough time, so we talked about having her stay with him, and exercise the same visitation with me that I'd been offering to him. He thought about that, but didn't think that would be enough time either. But it was a friendly discussion until I said I would just need to know where he lived, and make sure our daughter had a bed. (She's talked about sleeping on the couch.)

    I know it's not my business. He's $15k+ behind in child support. We worked out an arrangement, giving him extra time so that our daughter no longer needed childcare. We had a horrible divorce, but have gotten along well ever since. I'm not trying to take his rights away. I just know that when he's been out of town, I've met his girlfriend at a fast food place for the child exchange. I wouldn't have said that during his visitation time, he didn't get to decide who spent time with his daughter. And if he were going to decide that, I would have called him.

    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    Considering the fact you express such concern about this, why have you not returned to Florida to deal with it. That in itself shows you are not concerned that something sinister has happened to them...

    I wasn't that concerned until her teacher replied to my e-mail just the day before yesterday, saying that she wasn't in school. I thought he was just doing his typical thing of thinking that rules just don't apply to him. He makes statements like that. Telling me that people like him don't have to pay taxes, people like him can report whatever income they want to when applying for a car loan. He's said that even though we have a visitation schedule, he didn't have to follow it. But then I worried a little. He used to say stuff like that he had multiple Social Security numbers and could disappear if he wanted to. I know that's probably not true... as true as claiming to be the inventor of cheese or sandwiches. I just felt like I should be doing something. And I'm sorry that I don't have the money to fly back to Florida tomorrow. All the care and concern of the world doesn't manufacture $200.

    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    so, basically unless you have reason to believe something has happened to the child and other parent, about all you can do is wait until you get back to Florida.

    Thank you for that. I am freaking out overmuch. He's not a bad dad. He probably is just not answering his phone. Maybe he lost it, and that's why he won't let me talk to our daughter. Maybe he took her to Disney World, like he's done about a dozen times already. It's probably okay. He loves her, and if she were sick enough to stay a week out of school... if she were hurt or something, he might let me know. So, I should just relax and take a breath and maybe prepare to shake a finger at him if he took her out of school for Disney World again, but that should be it. I don't need to panic.

    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    Unless there is something in the child custody order that would prevent the other parent from having the child with them while you are out of the area such as you are, I would suggest a court might not be too pleased at the effort to disallow the other parent from having their child with them without any justification.

    Because I offered him the chance to have her, I would not be viewed as "preventing" him, as you put it. My justification for not wanting her with him is not wanting her somewhere unknown, as most parents-- mothers and fathers-- prefer to know the location of their children. That's why I said she could stay with him while I was away. As long as he gave me an address. We have a hearing upcoming about his refusal to tell me where he lives. I won't withhold his normal visitation from him because that's against our court-appointed visitation orders. Besides, he has season passes to Disney World, Universal Studios, and Sea World. He spends most of his visitation time with her in Orlando.
  • 03-20-2010, 07:10 PM
    jk
    Re: Concealing the Whereabouts, Second Attempt at an Answer
    Ok, that explains a lot of things BUT g-ma did relinquish the child to the father. You know dad has been active with things (the court filings) so most likely he did not just up and disappear and nothing sinister has happened.

    I understand your angst but honestly, this is not a police issue nor a missing child issue at the moment. It appears as he either intentionally or not, has failed to respond to your attempts of contact and that is it.

    As I said, if you have a real concern your daughter is in harms way, you need to get on a plane and head back to Florida and deal with this. If you do not fear for your daughter's safety, you need to simply continue to try to contact the father.

    I would continue to check at the school as well.

    Quote:

    I offered him an agreement that I could file with the court stating that he would exercise additional parenting time from March 1st until March 31st. He did not want to sign this agreement.
    If you were going to be gone the month of March, why would you need signed agreement. This is his child too. Parents can work together without 72 page legal documents assigning every minute of their child's time to some party. Even you had said for the most part, the relationship has been good.

    I think if an ex really figured I needed to sign some document that would allow me more time with my child, especially if we had a decent relationship, I would be offended.

    Quote:

    I just felt like I should be doing something. And I'm sorry that I don't have the money to fly back to Florida tomorrow. All the care and concern of the world doesn't manufacture $200
    .if I felt I had to be across the country due to needing to protect my child, I would find the $200 somewhere. Friends, family, and church; I would walk down the street and ask as many people as it took to get $200 if I felt I must get across the country to protect my child.
  • 03-20-2010, 11:00 PM
    emanon
    Re: Concealing the Whereabouts, Second Attempt at an Answer
    Okay, his girlfriend called me. He's been staying with her. She's pregnant, something my daughter had told me. Turns out she's really pregnant, due very soon. She was upset... you know, just acting pregnant-- which is its own form of insanity.

    My ex-husband took off for a couple weeks before I was due, too. He just needs a bit of time to get away. So, just because I know him, and I know he's about to father another child, I think he just took my daughter on a trip. Nothing brings out the "rational" in a person as much as talking to an "irrational" pregnant lady. I remember those days. I was weird.

    And with the Temporary Parenting Plan Agreement, I work at a law firm; I just think like that. It had a telephonic visitation schedule outlined, for example. And I really did need to get his address. But I get it now; he's living with his girlfriend's parents, but sometimes sleeps at the homes of other people as well. He got evicted, and it's just been like that since. His girlfriend explained all of this while gasping and sobbing. So, I understand better now. The only time in the last five years that he's been this weird about his address was when he was living with an ex-girlfriend. He just doesn't like telling me when he's living with a girl, which is fine, but he still needs to tell me where our daughter sleeps... even if it makes him uncomfortable. That's the law.

    Whenever I tried to ask our daughter where she was staying, I got different answers. She would often talk about the princess bed set used to have, and I didn't want to be interrogating her. So, I'm not trying to be evil. If you suspected your ex-wife of couch surfing with your children, I'm sure you'd voice a concern or two, as well.

    And you're right that if I thought my daughter was in danger I'd figure out a way to get on a plane and get out there sooner. She's not in danger. I thought I was in danger of him doing some kind of game play that I didn't understand... but I never thought that she was in danger. If she's not going to school, then maybe she's in danger of not getting to the reading level she needs to reach, but that's a different kind of danger. And one not nearly so dramatic.
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