Sex Offender Moving Abroad

My question involves criminal law for the state of: Alabama/Florida.

Long story, I will try to summarize. When I was about 21 I met a girl at a party, we hit it off well, exchanged #'s dated , had sex , etc For about 8 months. Her age was not what I thought it was, she ended up being 14 years old.

I live near the state line, I live in Alabama, she lived across the line in Florida, we were about 15 miles apart.

In Alabama I get charged with Rape II (consensual sex with a minor) In Florida I get charged with Lewd and Lecivious Acts with a person under 16 but over 12 (same thing, consensual sex with a minor)

So I go to court, I explained what happened I am given 3 years probation in Alabama, In florida they give me the same and run it concurrent. And of course it puts me on the Sex Offender Registry.

All of this happened in 2002, Now, fast forward to this last year.

My wife and I got married Jan of last year, we are both 28 years in age. Shes aware of my history and etc. I filed for immigration papers for her to come to the united states.

As you know the Adam Walsh Act denies most people, I have hired a lawyer and so for its been 7 to 8 months with no response on our papers , they may never respond or deny us completely.

I have had no other legal issues since the time it all happened in 2002. I explained everything to immigration, showing proof of all court documents, and rehabilitation, completed probation etc. So I am hopeful but who knows.

Now to my question, If denied for immigration, Can I legally move to my wifes country? I read often about sex offenders that captured for "failure to report" But I don't want that to happen to me, I want to follow the laws. And I'm not failing to report

So if I tell them my new address over seas , that does not count as failure to report , correct? And what about every 6 months that I am supposed to report? If I am no longer in the usa ? Do they mail a paper over seas for me to fill out and return?

I am extremely fearful that I will legally tell them I am moving, give them my new address overseas, and that they will later, disregard that and make up something, or say I didn't fill something out, and try to destroy My family

I only wish for peace with my family, without any future problems.

Thanks everyone for reading it all, sorry its so long.

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Now to my question, If denied for immigration, Can I legally move to my wifes country?

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That will be up to your wife's country, at least in part. When you apply for a visa, the host country will typically ask the FBI for your file. Some countries won't let people immigrate to them for concepts as vague as "bad morals."

I don't know of any federal restrictions on your ability to move abroad. My guess is that the federal government would be very happy to let a sex offender move out of the country.

Here is a link talking about various passport restrictions.

http://www.nationalpassport.com/pass...trictions.aspx

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So if I tell them my new address over seas , that does not count as failure to report , correct?

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Why would it?

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And what about every 6 months that I am supposed to report?

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That depends on what the reporting requirements are in your state. Are you required to appear in person to report? If so, that's exactly what you will need to do, absent some kind of a waiver. You will need to fly back to the United States every six months to report your location.

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If I am no longer in the usa ? Do they mail a paper over seas for me to fill out and return?

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Is that the normal process by which you report? Why wouldn't they keep doing it just because it's an overseas address?

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I am extremely fearful that I will legally tell them I am moving, give them my new address overseas, and that they will later, disregard that and make up something, or say I didn't fill something out,

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They could do that to you whether or not you moved out of the country.

You probably need to talk this over with whoever it is you report to every six months. Do the same thing with them that you did with immigration: be candid. Explain your situation, and ask how they handle sex offenders moving out of the country.

Once you are given permission to move if on probation, or you notify your county sex offender registrations department of your intent to move and on what date if you are not on probation, you will then have to follow the laws of the country that you have moved to making sure that you get a paper from the police station where you have moved with them acknowledging your arrival and residence and mailing that back to your original sheriff's office in your place of conviction. Then from that point on you follow that countries laws.

If you ARE on probation, you will need to get permission of the court in all jurisdictions that you are on probation in. If you are not on probation, the choice of where you live is up to you, as long as local laws don't restrict you. Then you will need to follow my advice above and do tell your local sex offender registrant about your plans. He/she will be able to help you comply with the law. Also you may be able to apply for a release from registration depending on what you place of convictions rules/laws say is the minimum time served before applying for a release.

Let us know what country is willing to take America's sex offenders. It'll be a surprise to many.

I am not on probation , Also the country I would be moving to does not have a sex offender registry.

What happens then? I have no one there to tell? Also by their laws, my background does not break any of their current laws.

I don't wish the say the country in question, but I have visited it already several times , and even received a few clearances.

Its my understanding that they go by their laws, and as long as my background does not break their laws, I don't believe it will be a problem since I am married to one of their citizens

Also to the response above, if I move for good, no way am i going to fly back to the usa each time to fill out a paper with my address, If I am no longer legally living there.

I am only required to "notify" them, and thats exactly would I would do, give them my new address abroad , and that should be it. I should not have to report to them any further as I would not be living in the usa anymore, correct?

I have a passport

I believe that you will still be required by your state's laws to report to the police where you are moving. Then once that is done,you will probably be on your own. Don't be surprised if your state turn's down your request to move based on the fact that there is no sex offender registration laws were you are moving.

Turns down my request? They can't legally tell me what country to live in , its supposed to be me notifying them and thats it. I'm not on probation, Its not up to them to approve of what country I choose to live in. Thats a personal choice.

I have no problem telling them where I am moving to, and its not a "request" I dont have to ask them, I tell them

Nothing in any papers that I have ever signed that says anything about moving to another country. Everything I agreed to and signed off on is on a paper , none say anything about another country

They can, however, legal prohibit you from leaving....

Hydra, if you already know everything, why bother to ask. Seems like you have made up your mind to leave the country. I think you will be surprised by the outcome.

Can you show me in black in white how they can "legally prohibit me from leaving"? Anything on the net?

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Quoting nite_riderusa

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Hydra, if you already know everything, why bother to ask. Seems like you have made up your mind to leave the country. I think you will be surprised by the outcome.

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How do you figure? Do have anything in black in white that shows that they can stop a person from leaving the country?

if you have some type of sources or links that show this legally I would be more than happy to read them


Its not that I "know" everything, its that this is a legal forum and I need legal sources to cite, not guess work

Because sex-offenders may need permission to move out of both the State AND the country.


Even those who are no longer on probation.


(And that's not even touching on the whole passport issue - after receiving notification, you may well find that your passport is canceled)

A number of things.

If you are not on supervision, nobody can prevent you from leaving.

If you move from Florida, you must notify the state that you are moving. Otherwise it is a criminal offense and a warrant can be issued for your arrest.
Florida does issue warrants and extradites for this. This would affect you upon your return. You need to check Georgia law if it is the same.

With your record you will not be able to immigrant to ANY other country. Also, even if that happened, you would not be able to legally work for some years.

At best you could be a perpetual tourist, going on a tourist visa for 3 months, leaving and re-entering on a new visa. Sooner or later though you would be barred from re-entering. Of course, you would not be able to legally work. Most countries are very strict on these things.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Because sex-offenders may need permission to move out of both the State AND the country.


Even those who are no longer on probation.


(And that's not even touching on the whole passport issue - after receiving notification, you may well find that your passport is canceled)

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Do you know this for a fact? or have something you can show me, where this has happened? I don't see how they could legally cancel my passport. No rules say I can't move outside of the country that I am aware of.

The reason I ask, is every time I search and see about sex offenders being deported, its because they were breaking laws , or failed to register . It would seem as long as one was not breaking any laws, that it should not be an issue.

Also the usa has freedom of movement, which I believe still applies to sex offenders

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom...#United_States

I don't believe they could cancel my passport unless I had a warrant or broke any laws (which I haven't and will not) I only wish to live with my wife , it doesnt matter where

Oh well, when the time comes for me to leave, I will make sure a law comes with me to my final visit to the RSO office

The preceding message is pure nonsense. Dognut, please talk about things you actually know for a fact.

The state can't stop you from moving or traveling. You do generally have to notify them even when not on probation or parole if you are in the sex offender registry. That has to do with the registration requirement. It does not have anything to do with any foreign country, which will have its own rules and laws. However, many things that are regulated in the US are not regulated in other countries.

A state can not do anything to affect a valid passport, nor have I ever heard of any state ever trying to stop a passport from being issued. How would they ever know? The state has no authority over any federal agency and have no power to affect your rights under federal law.

No state can cancel a passport. That is even more crazy than judges would think they can order people to stay out of a town or city and things like that.

This is doubly true when you are not under any supervision and no state has any right to regulate your movement.

Again, no state entity has any power to regulate or reduce your legal rights under federal law and the Constitution.

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I am only required to "notify" them, and thats exactly would I would do, give them my new address abroad , and that should be it. I should not have to report to them any further as I would not be living in the usa anymore, correct?

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It's an interesting legal question. Maybe you'd like to find out if the jurisdiction of the Adam Walsh Child Protection Act's duty to report extends beyond the territorial borders of the US. Certainly, the Act doesn't purport to end your duty when you leave the country.

So go ahead. Leave the country, and stop reporting your whereabouts. An arrest warrant will be issued for felony violation of the Adam Walsh Act's reporting requirement. After you're extradited, you and your attorney can make a compelling argument for why your duty to report should have ended when you left the country.

I have to be honest. I don't have a legal answer for whether the federal or state government will let you leave the country. All I have is a vague sense that nobody is going to object to a sex offender leaving. But I'm not at all convinced, regardless of your marital status, that a country is going to be very excited about letting a sex offender enter.

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Quoting Baz744

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It's an interesting legal question. Maybe you'd like to find out if the jurisdiction of the Adam Walsh Child Protection Act's duty to report extends beyond the territorial borders of the US. Certainly, the Act doesn't purport to end your duty when you leave the country.

So go ahead. Leave the country, and stop reporting your whereabouts. An arrest warrant will be issued for felony violation of the Adam Walsh Act's reporting requirement. After you're extradited, you and your attorney can make a compelling argument for why your duty to report should have ended when you left the country.

I have to be honest. I don't have a legal answer for whether the federal or state government will let you leave the country. All I have is a vague sense that nobody is going to object to a sex offender leaving. But I'm not at all convinced, regardless of your marital status, that a country is going to be very excited about letting a sex offender enter.

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I don't plan on not reporting my whereabouts (thats against the law) and As long as I am a US citizen, I will comply with US laws. I just want to stay as legal as possible.

I understand that leaving the country does not mean that I am no longer a RSO, fully understood. If you go to another country with a sex offender registry of course in that country you would comply with their registry.

The question is, once you report that you are moving to another country, and the country you move to DOES NOT have a sex offender registry , then what happens? You have no one in the new country to report to. I have no problem reporting back to the usa of my address in my new country. I can mail them a letter/email/phone call , but thats about it.

Yes most countries would not allow a sex offender to enter and stay legally. But, considering what happened with my case in the usa, is legal in many countries. I would hope that the new country I live in, reviews my background and verifies that it does not break any of their existing laws.

Here is an example

In some countries, Abortion is against the law. In the united states, it is not. So lets say someone has an abortion and it breaks the law of whatever country they live and marks their record. This would not prevent them from entering the United states , as it is not against our laws, right?

Now, take the same thing and reverse it. Someone has consensual sex 6 or 7 years apart, with a partner that is 14 or older in the united states, this breaks the USA laws based on whatever state you are in. But , in many countries of the world if the person is 14 and over and the other person is 22 and under, then its not against their laws.

So the question is, will the receiving country judge by their laws, or Americas laws? America does not judge by other countries laws , so I would assume the same should work in reverse .

But, I plan on having many talks with lawyers before even going this route. I am still exploring all legal options with my lawyer.

You guys are trying to make it seem as if im breaking laws, which is absolutely false. I am a good person of my word and only wish to remain 100% legal in all aspects of my life , thats why I am on this forum In hopes that some lawyers here would provide some insight

It's not that people here are assuming that you'd be breaking laws - but rather some of us are explaining that you may have to accept the consequences of breaking laws in the past.

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Quoting hydra

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I don't plan on not reporting my whereabouts (thats against the law) and As long as I am a US citizen, I will comply with US laws. I just want to stay as legal as possible.

The question is, once you report that you are moving to another country, and the country you move to DOES NOT have a sex offender registry , then what happens? You have no one in the new country to report to. I have no problem reporting back to the usa of my address in my new country. I can mail them a letter/email/phone call , but thats about it.

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You haven't actually been entirely clear on this point. It sounds to me like what you're trying to do is report that you're leaving the country, and then stop reporting. What I'm trying to tell you is that you must continue to fulfill all the legal duties you currently have even if you leave the country. If that means appearing in person to register, then absent some special waiver, you must continue to do that. If all it means is sending in a form every few months, you must continue to do that.

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Yes most countries would not allow a sex offender to enter and stay legally. But, considering what happened with my case in the usa, is legal in many countries. I would hope that the new country I live in, reviews my background and verifies that it does not break any of their existing laws.

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I understand what you're saying. I just wanted to apprise you that it isn't only US emigration policy you have to deal with. It's also the host country's immigration policy. Even if it's legal for you to leave America, it might not be legal for you to enter your wife's country.

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So the question is, will the receiving country judge by their laws, or Americas laws? America does not judge by other countries laws , so I would assume the same should work in reverse .

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The host country will judge however it sees fit. Certainly, you can argue to their immigration officials that because you wouldn't have committed a crime under their laws, they should disregard your record in deciding whether to let you enter. But it's not a sure thing. Even if they're not concerned about your conduct per se, they may be concerned about your disregard for the law.

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You guys are trying to make it seem as if im breaking laws, which is absolutely false. I am a good person of my word and only wish to remain 100% legal in all aspects of my life , thats why I am on this forum In hopes that some lawyers here would provide some insight

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I'm trying to be candid with you about what I do and don't know. I know the following:

1) You won't get out of your American reporting and registration requirements by moving abroad. If you move abroad and neglect your legal duties here, you will be committing a felony. The US retains criminal jurisdiction over all of its citizens no matter where they are in the world.

2) The host country will consider your criminal record in deciding whether or not to let you enter. Even if you have a really good argument for why it shouldn't matter.

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Quoting Baz744

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It's an interesting legal question. Maybe you'd like to find out if the jurisdiction of the Adam Walsh Child Protection Act's duty to report extends beyond the territorial borders of the US. Certainly, the Act doesn't purport to end your duty when you leave the country.

So go ahead. Leave the country, and stop reporting your whereabouts. An arrest warrant will be issued for felony violation of the Adam Walsh Act's reporting requirement. After you're extradited, you and your attorney can make a compelling argument for why your duty to report should have ended when you left the country.

I have to be honest. I don't have a legal answer for whether the federal or state government will let you leave the country. All I have is a vague sense that nobody is going to object to a sex offender leaving. But I'm not at all convinced, regardless of your marital status, that a country is going to be very excited about letting a sex offender enter.

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Quoting Baz744

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You haven't actually been entirely clear on this point. It sounds to me like what you're trying to do is report that you're leaving the country, and then stop reporting. What I'm trying to tell you is that you must continue to fulfill all the legal duties you currently have even if you leave the country. If that means appearing in person to register, then absent some special waiver, you must continue to do that. If all it means is sending in a form every few months, you must continue to do that.



I understand what you're saying. I just wanted to apprise you that it isn't only US emigration policy you have to deal with. It's also the host country's immigration policy. Even if it's legal for you to leave America, it might not be legal for you to enter your wife's country.



The host country will judge however it sees fit. Certainly, you can argue to their immigration officials that because you wouldn't have committed a crime under their laws, they should disregard your record in deciding whether to let you enter. But it's not a sure thing. Even if they're not concerned about your conduct per se, they may be concerned about your disregard for the law.



I'm trying to be candid with you about what I do and don't know. I know the following:

1) You won't get out of your American reporting and registration requirements by moving abroad. If you move abroad and neglect your legal duties here, you will be committing a felony. The US retains criminal jurisdiction over all of its citizens no matter where they are in the world.

2) The host country will consider your criminal record in deciding whether or not to let you enter. Even if you have a really good argument for why it shouldn't matter.

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Fully Understood, If I am living in another country I would have no way to appear in person . I dont mind filling out papers and turning them in telling them my address. I am not going to "stop" reporting (thats against the law) But no way if I am living in another country am I going to fly back to the usa every 6 months to fill out a paper with my address and fly back , thats nuts

I am not trying to get out of the registry, It just so happens that my wife lives in a country without one. Thats why I am asking what to do in that case.

But, As I said before this is a last resort and I would speak with a lawyer before making any big changes

Maybe I can request the judge to clear my record if I renounce my citizenship possibly.

Well, you can't do that while you're still in the US - renunciation can ONLY take place outside of the US.

Quite the conundrum, isn't it?

With regards to canceling your passport - the State Department (via other channels if necessary) has the absolute right to do so if certain conditions apply. When this happens, you do have the right to an administrative hearing.

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Quoting hydra

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Fully Understood, If I am living in another country I would have no way to appear in person . I dont mind filling out papers and turning them in telling them my address. I am not going to "stop" reporting (thats against the law) But no way if I am living in another country am I going to fly back to the usa every 6 months to fill out a paper with my address and fly back , thats nuts

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Just so we're clear: if your legal duty is to appear in person to register every six months, that won't change absent some sort of waiver. Even if you think flying back is "nuts." If your legal duty is to appear in person, and you fail to do so even because you've moved abroad, you will still be committing a felony.

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I am not trying to get out of the registry, It just so happens that my wife lives in a country without one. Thats why I am asking what to do in that case.

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What you do is you continue to comply with your legal duties in America. Your duties to America don't end because you've moved abroad.

BTW, I'm dying to know what country you're talking about. Is it too much to ask that you share it?

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Quoting Baz744

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Just so we're clear: if your legal duty is to appear in person to register every six months, that won't change absent some sort of waiver. Even if you think flying back is "nuts." If your legal duty is to appear in person, and you fail to do so even because you've moved abroad, you will still be committing a felony.



What you do is you continue to comply with your legal duties in America. Your duties to America don't end because you've moved abroad.

BTW, I'm dying to know what country you're talking about. Is it too much to ask that you share it?

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I dont wish to share it for our protection. But thanks for your help, I will seek a lawyer to see what can be arranged.

At the 10 year mark I can petition for my removal under the jacob wetterling act, as my state does not recognize the adam walsh act. So I think I do have a lot of other options

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Quoting hydra

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I dont wish to share it for our protection. But thanks for your help, I will seek a lawyer to see what can be arranged.

At the 10 year mark I can petition for my removal under the jacob wetterling act, as my state does not recognize the adam walsh act. So I think I do have a lot of other options

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Could you help me out? I'm seeing that both Alabama and Florida use the Adam Walsh act....are you in a state other than the two you listed? :confused:

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Quoting Baz744

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Just so we're clear: if your legal duty is to appear in person to register every six months, that won't change absent some sort of waiver. Even if you think flying back is "nuts." If your legal duty is to appear in person, and you fail to do so even because you've moved abroad, you will still be committing a felony.



What you do is you continue to comply with your legal duties in America. Your duties to America don't end because you've moved abroad.

BTW, I'm dying to know what country you're talking about. Is it too much to ask that you share it?

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Could you help me out? I'm seeing that both Alabama and Florida use the Adam Walsh act....are you in a state other than the two you listed? :confused:

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Alabama does not use the Adam Walsh act, they do not have a 3 tier system



Also everyone should read this, thats on this post. This is what New York has to say about moving to another country

Source : http://criminaljustice.state.ny.us/n...sibilities.htm question # 8

"Yes, you can move to another state or country but you must notify the local police department of the new state or country that you are moving into the area. That state or country will determine whether you need to register as a sex offender there.

Registration requirements do not end when you move to another state and you must notify DCJS of your new address. You will not be removed from the New York State Sex Offender Registry."


This doesn't mean its the same in every state, but this is very clear that yes you can move to another country and its up to that country to determine if you need to register , so its possible you could go to a country with a registry and not even be required to register by that countries standards.

If its this way for New York , it s probably the same for all the other states. But will research more

Follow up

I received a call from The Alabama Department of Public Safety's Legal team.

They have no special rules regarding a sex offender moving overseas.

She Advised if you move overseas, its the same as you would move from state to state

And that you have to notify of your new address, and register as an offender in the new country, if they have a registry.

I asked for this in writing, she advised that they have no laws or rules against it, and its not in writing , and that is is 100% legal

Also Alabama is still not Following the Adam Walsh Act, and also she advised its up to the country you go to, to determine if your background would have broken any of their laws

Thats all! once you tell them you move to another country and give the address, thats it! No more checking back in

If you need to verify this you can contact the Alabama Dept of Public Safety