Concealing Items With Intent to Shoplift

My question involves criminal law for the state of: Massachusetts


Recently I was caught concealing items at Target with intentions to shoplift , was questioned, arrested, brought to a station , fingerprinted and photographed. The officers were co-operative and I was able to pay bail. My Court date is this Monday. My question is this, I have never been arrested for any crime, I am not a criminal. The charge counts as a misdemeanor as the items tallied to less than 250$

What I need to know is how to plead. I can't imagine I will be able to find a lawyer on a Sunday, ready to go to court the following Monday. I am not opposed to having a court-appointed attorney but I would appreciate if someone could explain this procedure in more depth.

I know I will not be pleading guilty because I do not believe I should be convicted, however I dont know how to defer the court proceedings long enough to give me an opportunity to find a lawyer.

I have reasons for why the items were concealed, I did under pressure sign documents for target that I was in possession of the items concealed. I never technically tried to leave the store although I was near the entrance.

From what I have read my options are more or less, Not Guilty or I Stand Mute, I would like to better understand the difference.

Thank you

plea not guilty and ask for a public defender
plea guilty ---> MAXIMUM SENTENCE
Oh really? Why were you concealing the items? -__-
taking an item and hiding it in your shirt --- Stealing
switching/tearing off price tags --- being very dishonest. The items belong to the store until a customer pays for it.
removing the product and damaging it ---- making it unsellable to the next customer who is interested and eager to buy it.

These actions bring negative effects to the store and to the innocent consumers out there.

I was concealing the items because I had intent to steal them, however at the time I had the means to pay for everything concelead and was debating leaving with them or paying. When confronted I very explicity offered to pay for everything but was denied this option.

I just don't want anything on my record, I'm willing to pay the store whatever it costs to restock and repackage the items as well as cover other shoplifters. I am not a thief, I have very strong ethics against stealing, but I am not here to argue reasons. The facts of the case are what should be important.

You neglected to explain the different between pleading not guilty and I stand mute.

Thank you regardless though for your input

If you stand mute, the court enters a not guilty plea for you. Effectively no difference.

It is not correct that "plea guilty ---> MAXIMUM SENTENCE"; but it does eliminate your chance to avoid a conviction.

So in this instance, considering I have not had a chance to talk to an attourney and am not sure whether or not technically I am guilty of a crime, should I stand mute?

You should have paid for the items and not concealed them in the first place. :wallbang:
Now, you made a huge mess and it could have been prevented as well.

I forgot to add that you will be receiving a civil demand letter in your mailbox. Pay it as soon as possible or the store will sue you.

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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So in this instance, considering I have not had a chance to talk to an attourney and am not sure whether or not technically I am guilty of a crime, should I stand mute?

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Massachusetts has a concealment law (Chapter 266: Section 30A). There is no requirement that you must exit the store.

Ok...so....I go to your house, I find $250 sitting on the counter, I decide to pick it up and place it in my bra.

But I have no intention of stealing it from you....I was just thinking of it, but you caught me....so I'll give it back to you, and just expect you to not be upset...

Or....worse..."The sunglasses just fell into my open purse while I was in a fitting room".

See how your story is sounding????

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1. Recently I was caught concealing items at Target with intentions to shoplift
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2. I was concealing the items because I had intent to steal them, however at the time I had the means to pay for everything concelead and was debating leaving with them or paying.

Hello????? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


QUOTE: "I have never been arrested for any crime, I am not a criminal. The charge counts as a misdemeanor".

Yet you also state: "The officers were co-operative and I was able to pay bail. "

GUESS WHAT - You have been arrested! For a crime!!!!! Yes, you are a criminal!!! And you will have the CRIMINAL RECORD to prove it.

Quote: "I have reasons for why the items were concealed"
Like what? They didn't have any shopping carts or baskets available?

Quote: I am not a thief, I have very strong ethics against stealing.

Um...then why were you concealing an item????

Ok, here's reality:
- You will be getting a civil demand from the store.
- Yes, you were arrested.
- Yes, you have been charged with a CRIME.
- No, the store won't just take some cash to make this go away. You now are dealing with the stores Civil Demand Department. And the COURTS.

Oh yes...while we're at it....do not enter a Target store again, ever. You will be arrested again for Criminal Trespass.

And yes....you need to ask for a Public Defender. No jury in the world is going to believe your contradictions.....

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I just don't want anything on my record,

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Then plead Not Guilty and ask for a Public Defender. Counsel may be able to get you into a diversion program, if such is available in your jurisdiction, which may help you avoid a record.

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I'm willing to pay the store whatever it costs to restock and repackage the items as well as cover other shoplifters.

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The law doesn't care what you're "willing" to do now. The time to pay for the items has long passed - paying is what you should have been doing instead of concealing and "debating leaving with them or paying". You do not get to set the terms now. You'll do what the court tells you to do, or you'll find yourself in even more trouble than you're already in.

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I am not a thief,

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Except that you are. In Massachusetts, concealing with intent to steal is the same as stealing. Like it or not, you are a criminal, and you earned the label fair and square.

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I have very strong ethics against stealing, but I am not here to argue reasons. The facts of the case are what should be important.

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The court doesn't care about your "reasons" for concealing the items, as the concealment itself is a crime. Security Consultant has already cited the relevant law for you.

The facts of the case, as you've presented it, are that you intended to steal, but changed your mind when you got caught.

If I were you, I'd let my lawyer do all of my talking for me, because if you tell the judge about your "strong ethics against stealing", it's going to take him a good five minutes to stop laughing before he administers a thorough and stinging tongue lashing. It will be embarrassing and humiliating, and you probably won't enjoy it.

We know the reasons for concealing the items - "I was concealing the items because I had intent to steal them". It's harder to steal items that you're not concealing. I doubt that the prosecutor would mind the defendant's sharing that "reason" in court....

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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We know the reasons for concealing the items - "I was concealing the items because I had intent to steal them". It's harder to steal items that you're not concealing. I doubt that the prosecutor would mind the defendant's sharing that "reason" in court....

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I'd be willing to pay to see that one actually...

Look just because Im sharing information with you people online does not mean I would share that same information with the court. The items were "Concealed" In a target shopping bag, the reusable kind, yes I was near the exit to the store, but I never tried to leave. I think I could make a case. But in all honesty, despite what the law says, I don't understand why I should be penalized for considering stealing something, when I have no record. Do you think if we could predict the future we should be arresting people for crimes they haven't committed yet?

Taking something off a shelf of a private home compared to taking something off a shelf of a public merchant is a ridiculous comparison by the way. I literally laughed out loud at your suggestion.


The only charges I can be found guilty of without a doubt, are tampering with store merchandise, "any person who intentionally alters, transfers or removes any label, price tag or marking indicia of value or any other markings which aid in determining value affixed to any merchandise displayed, held, stored or offered for sale by any store or other retail mercantile establishment and to attempt to purchase such merchandise personally or in consort with another at less than the full retail value with the intention of depriving the merchant of all or some part of the retail value thereof; or"

I did remove tags on socks and underwear in order to try them on, but this is because I planned to PAY FOR THEM. THere is no reason to remove the tags otherwise, they had no security sensors. I have broken seals on items before paying for them plenty of times in stores and have never been arrested for it.

I know my story may seem far-fetched, but the whole point of our justice system is innocent until proven guilty. I appreciate whoever changed the title of this topic, I realise my error in ever saying anything along those lines, I will be sure not to repeat such things in the future.



Anyway I am here for help and despite the fact none of you are siding with me, this is what I'll need to prepare for, so thank you.

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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Look just because Im sharing information with you people online does not mean I would share that same information with the court. The items were "Concealed" In a target shopping bag, the reusable kind, yes I was near the exit to the store, but I never tried to leave. I think I could make a case. But in all honesty, despite what the law says, I don't understand why I should be penalized for considering stealing something, when I have no record. Do you think if we could predict the future we should be arresting people for crimes they haven't committed yet?

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That's because you aren't listening.

Concealment is the same as theft. Even if you never left the store.

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Taking something off a shelf of a private home compared to taking something off a shelf of a public merchant is a ridiculous comparison by the way. I literally laughed out loud at your suggestion.

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In a way, you are correct and incorrect.

Theft is theft. However, shoplifting has specific law around it that makes the concealment itself a crime. That does not occur in private.

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The only charges I can be found guilty of without a doubt, are tampering with store merchandise, "any person who intentionally alters, transfers or removes any label, price tag or marking indicia of value or any other markings which aid in determining value affixed to any merchandise displayed, held, stored or offered for sale by any store or other retail mercantile establishment and to attempt to purchase such merchandise personally or in consort with another at less than the full retail value with the intention of depriving the merchant of all or some part of the retail value thereof; or"

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A crime, then.

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I did remove tags on socks and underwear in order to try them on, but this is because I planned to PAY FOR THEM. THere is no reason to remove the tags otherwise, they had no security sensors. I have broken seals on items before paying for them plenty of times in stores and have never been arrested for it.

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Ignorance of a crime is not a valid affirmative defense. You do NOT have to remove tags to try on merchandise. To do so is theft.

Further, it is usually assumed that anyone that tries on underwear gets to keep it.

On a personal note, Ewww.

Just because you hadn't been arrested before does not mean you didn't commit a crime.

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I know my story may seem far-fetched, but the whole point of our justice system is innocent until proven guilty. I appreciate whoever changed the title of this topic, I realise my error in ever saying anything along those lines, I will be sure not to repeat such things in the future.

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Good. Except I will bet you a latte that the letter you signed DID admit to the theft.

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Anyway I am here for help and despite the fact none of you are siding with me, this is what I'll need to prepare for, so thank you.

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If you think we are tough, wait until you meet the judge... who will give you about 30 seconds to plead your case.

I have heard the letters signed in stores do not stand up in court. I'm not sure if this helps either but I was never read my Miranda rights until I was at the police station, after which point I did not say 2 words.


And to try on socks you do need to remove the tags, and YES I agree that once you try on underwear you keep it, and I planned on paying for it, all the tags were in the bag, same with all the security tags. I had kept them in the bag because I intended to pay for them.

I don't see how the fact I have no record does not help my credibility. I'm not using it as defense I'm merely using to build character against say, a target employee , who is probably paid commission to catch potential shoplifters.

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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I have heard the letters signed in stores do not stand up in court. I'm not sure if this helps either but I was never read my Miranda rights until I was at the police station, after which point I did not say 2 words.

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Completely irrelevant.

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And to try on socks you do need to remove the tags, and YES I agree that once you try on underwear you keep it, and I planned on paying for it, all the tags were in the bag, same with all the security tags. I had kept them in the bag because I intended to pay for them.

I don't see how the fact I have no record does not help my credibility. I'm not using it as defense I'm merely using to build character against say, a target employee , who is probably paid commission to catch potential shoplifters.

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You're rationalizing.

You committed a crime; the only matter now in question is what happens, and none of us can see into the future.

(Think about it - nobody has a criminal record until they are charged for the first time)

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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I have heard the letters signed in stores do not stand up in court.

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I've never heard of signed letters not being upheld in Civil court. Besides it makes no difference whether or not you signed the letter. Do not confuse the Civil Demand with the criminal procedure.

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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I have heard the letters signed in stores do not stand up in court. I'm not sure if this helps either but I was never read my Miranda rights until I was at the police station, after which point I did not say 2 words.

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Agreed. Not relevan.t

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And to try on socks you do need to remove the tags,

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No you don't... and you just committed a crime. Every time.

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and YES I agree that once you try on underwear you keep it, and I planned on paying for it, all the tags were in the bag, same with all the security tags. I had kept them in the bag because I intended to pay for them.

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Or you didn't want the tags found.

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I don't see how the fact I have no record does not help my credibility.

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You will enjoy first offender status.

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I'm not using it as defense I'm merely using to build character against say, a target employee , who is probably paid commission to catch potential shoplifters.

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By your logic, we shouldn't believe police officers because it is their job to catch criminals?

You were caught with a bag full of concealed items with their tags removed. Your credibility is already shot.

Ma'am, even I don't believe you were THINKING about stealing... the judge, who hears this type of story 100 times a day, won't even blink at it. In fact, he/she might even sing along... and will still find you guilty.

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Quoting Security Consultant

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I've never heard of signed letters not being upheld in Civil court. Besides it makes no difference whether or not you signed the letter. Do not confuse the Civil Demand with the criminal procedure.

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Are you saying that the letter will not be used in criminal court?

Ok wait, as far as the letter goes this is my understanding; Target will be billing me separate from my shoplifting conviction in order to pay for damages, restocking etc.

If I am willing to pay this, but plead not guilty, will Target still be involved? Or will it be myself versus the police as opposed to police + target. I understand the police may use evidence from target, security cameras (I actually hope they do use these because they work in my favor) but do you think they will have witnesses?

Will I be able to find out before the hearing whether or not the intend to use witnesses?

And finally after I plead Not Guilty, what exactly is the procedure. I mean directly following, what will be asked of me.


I really am appalled at the amount of bias already shown here considering none of you have all the facts of the case. You are all making rampant assumptions that I am a criminal and this is not just a misunderstanding. Maybe you are representing how a judge will act, but it was my understanding that a judge does not pass judgment until all the facts of the case are brought to his or her attention.

I have revised my earlier statement, I at no point had any intentions of stealing anything.

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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Ok wait, as far as the letter goes this is my understanding; Target will be billing me separate from my shoplifting conviction in order to pay for damages, restocking etc.

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Correct.

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If I am willing to pay this, but plead not guilty, will Target still be involved? Or will it be myself versus the police as opposed to police + target. I understand the police may use evidence from target, security cameras (I actually hope they do use these because they work in my favor) but do you think they will have witnesses?

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Target was the victim. The state will make it's determination as to what is necessary to win the case.

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Will I be able to find out before the hearing whether or not the intend to use witnesses?

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Your lawyer could.

However, since this entire case will probably take no more than 5 minutes, I wouldn't count on it.

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And finally after I plead Not Guilty, what exactly is the procedure. I mean directly following, what will be asked of me.

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After you plead not guilty, the game stops and a new date will be assigned.

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I really am appalled at the amount of bias already shown here considering none of you have all the facts of the case.

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That's cool. I am really okay that a thief (abet a bad one) doesn't think I am nice.

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You are all making rampant assumptions that I am a criminal and this is not just a misunderstanding. Maybe you are representing how a judge will act, but it was my understanding that a judge does not pass judgment until all the facts of the case are brought to his or her attention.

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You have admitted you took off tags - a crime.
You have admitted you concealed merchandise - a crime.

This wasn't a misunderstanding... you were going to steal and got caught before you nerved up and left. If you would actually known where the line was, you wouldn't have taken off the tags and/or concealed the merchandise... but you still would have been working up to the theft.

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I have revised my earlier statement, I at no point had any intentions of stealing anything.

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Thief and a liar.

Let me guess... you never had any intention of lying either?

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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I was concealing the items because I had intent to steal them, however at the time I had the means to pay for everything concelead and was debating leaving with them or paying.I was concealing the items because I had intent to steal them, however at the time I had the means to pay for everything concelead and was debating leaving with them or paying. When confronted I very explicity offered to pay for everything but was denied this option.

I just don't want anything on my record, I'm willing to pay the store whatever it costs to restock and repackage the items as well as cover other shoplifters. I am not a thief, I have very strong ethics against stealing, but I am not here to argue reasons. The facts of the case are what should be important.

You neglected to explain the different between pleading not guilty and I stand mute.

Thank you regardless though for your input

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Here, I went ahead and quoted you so that you couldn't completely remove all evidence of your theft, lies and intent.

@cyjeff, just want to thank you for your post which made me chuckle quite a bit. There is no way for me to denying taking the tags off, or "concealing the items". Out of curiosity, where do you think the line is drawn between concealed or not concealed, if I am grocery shopping and certain groceries are in my cart but hidden under other groceries, am I concealing them? Please explain how having items in a bag, A TARGET SHOPPING BAG, is in any way different?

I'm not arguing it isn't different I am just curious how you personally see it to be different.

You can name-call all you want but it is only going to make me laugh, I know I am no thief, I lied because I thought being remorseful would bring me sympathy. I have learned here that is the exact opposite of how I should be acting so I will no longer be trying to play to any crowd or sympathies. Being nice or not has nothing to do with Bias.

: an inclination of temperament or outlook; especially : a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment

"I am really ok if a suspected thief thinks I am unreasonable" Well thats all good and fine but you are not a judge, so I don't really care about your feelings. What I care about is what information you can give me. And so far you have been relatively helpful so for that I am grateful, thank you.


And as to your last quote, I was in shock, and when I am under stress and pressure I lie, this is not an unreasonable human response. Now that I have had time to think about it, this is simply what the police officer and target employee told me, not what I was actually thinking.

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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@cyjeff, just want to thank you for your post which made me chuckle quite a bit. There is no way for me to denying taking the tags off, or "concealing the items". Out of curiosity, where do you think the line is drawn between concealed or not concealed, if I am grocery shopping and certain groceries are in my cart but hidden under other groceries, am I concealing them? Please explain how having items in a bag, A TARGET SHOPPING BAG, is in any way different?

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The moment you move their products into your container, you are concealing.

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I'm not arguing it isn't different I am just curious how you personally see it to be different.

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There you go.

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You can name-call all you want but it is only going to make me laugh, I know I am no thief, I lied because I thought being remorseful would bring me sympathy. I have learned here that is the exact opposite of how I should be acting so I will no longer be trying to play to any crowd or sympathies. Being nice or not has nothing to do with Bias.

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I am actually a heck of a person.

Having said that, you stole... you considered stealing and were performing the act. It is not calling you a name...thief is simply your actions' description.

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: an inclination of temperament or outlook; especially : a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment

"I am really ok if a suspected thief thinks I am unreasonable" Well thats all good and fine but you are not a judge, so I don't really care about your feelings. What I care about is what information you can give me. And so far you have been relatively helpful so for that I am grateful, thank you.

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Good. that is why we are here.

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And as to your last quote, I was in shock, and when I am under stress and pressure I lie, this is not an unreasonable human response. Now that I have had time to think about it, this is simply what the police officer and target employee told me, not what I was actually thinking.

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Oh, so you were lying then but not lying now... so the issue is not that you lie but when?

you should warn me when it is going to get this deep... I would have worn waders.

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Quoting cyjeff

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The moment you move their products into your container, you are concealing.

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Afford me the benefit of the doubt here for a moment,

It was a target bag, it was their container, yes I recognize they did give me the bag and I should have gotten a separate cart, but I didn't. Do I deserve a misdemeanor on my record for such a small error in judgment?

Yes I took tags off merchandise, but the tags were still on my person, why would I have kept the tags if I didn't intend to have them scanned? There were blatant security tags on half the merchandise which were left untouched.

I was apprehended while walking NOT towards the exit, but towards the ATM (hence why I hope they include video tapes). Yes I did try to leave when I was approached but only because I was afraid of the person approaching me. I had no idea he was an employee. If a strange unshaven man in a dark Grey sweatshirt and Grey sweatpants grabbed you and said come with me, would you not flee?

Maybe I am a coward, and should have stood up and explained my situation, but I didn't. I am not a confident person when caught off guard, and sitting alone in a small room with three police officers and a target employee out for blood it is not easy to speak coherently and with conviction.

Again I recognize these are crimes, but circumstances are relevant, the whole point of a fair trial is for me to explain circumstances. I am an American Citizen I do my best to obey the laws of my state, I am sorry I wasn't aware of the laws as well as I should have been hence my name.

Of course I realize the foolishness of putting items in a bag when I think back on it. But at the time was I thinking? No , it should be quite obvious I wasn't. I do not think I deserve to be grouped with people who have no regards for laws or ethics.

You can say whatever you like, but deep down I know I would never steal, of course this could all be bullshit, but you can say that about anything anyone ever says. I have credibility, I intend to prove my credibility to anyone willing to listen, that is all I really have to say.

Anyway it feels good to get all that out, I hope I'll be able to say as much in court, and even if I'm convicted I'll know it was wrongfully so.

Three words...

CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER.

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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Afford me the benefit of the doubt here for a moment,

It was a target bag, it was their container, yes I recognize they did give me the bag and I should have gotten a separate cart, but I didn't. Do I deserve a misdemeanor on my record for such a small error in judgment?

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The law says yes.

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Yes I took tags off merchandise, but the tags were still on my person, why would I have kept the tags if I didn't intend to have them scanned? There were blatant security tags on half the merchandise which were left untouched.

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Because leaving the tags behind would have told the nice people you were stealing.

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I was apprehended while walking NOT towards the exit, but towards the ATM (hence why I hope they include video tapes). Yes I did try to leave when I was approached but only because I was afraid of the person approaching me. I had no idea he was an employee. If a strange unshaven man in a dark Grey sweatshirt and Grey sweatpants grabbed you and said come with me, would you not flee?

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I would have yelled for a cop or help from any number of the surrounding people. Did you?

No, of course you didn't... because you know who he was and why he grabbed you.

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Maybe I am a coward, and should have stood up and explained my situation, but I didn't. I am not a confident person when caught off guard, and sitting alone in a small room with three police officers and a target employee out for blood it is not easy to speak coherently and with conviction.

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That is, actually, the intent.

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Again I recognize these are crimes, but circumstances are relevant, the whole point of a fair trial is for me to explain circumstances. I am an American Citizen I do my best to obey the laws of my state, I am sorry I wasn't aware of the laws as well as I should have been hence my name.

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Again, ignorance of the law is not an affirmative defense.

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Of course I realize the foolishness of putting items in a bag when I think back on it. But at the time was I thinking? No , it should be quite obvious I wasn't. I do not think I deserve to be grouped with people who have no regards for laws or ethics.

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You mean like thieves (attempted or not) and liars?

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You can say whatever you like, but deep down I know I would never steal, of course this could all be bullshit, but you can say that about anything anyone ever says. I have credibility, I intend to prove my credibility to anyone willing to listen, that is all I really have to say.

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Lady... YOU said you were trying to work up the nerve. YOU know you were going to steal. YOU know you had planned to steal and YOU know that the bust is good.

Whatever you tell yourself to let yourself sleep, fine.

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Anyway it feels good to get all that out, I hope I'll be able to say as much in court, and even if I'm convicted I'll know it was wrongfully so.

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You really won't.

You will have about 30 seconds.

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Quoting cyjeff

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The law says yes.



Because leaving the tags behind would have told the nice people you were stealing.



I would have yelled for a cop or help from any number of the surrounding people. Did you?

No, of course you didn't... because you know who he was and why he grabbed you.



That is, actually, the intent.



Again, ignorance of the law is not an affirmative defense.



You mean like thieves (attempted or not) and liars?



Lady... YOU said you were trying to work up the nerve. YOU know you were going to steal. YOU know you had planned to steal and YOU know that the bust is good.

Whatever you tell yourself to let yourself sleep, fine.



You really won't.

You will have about 30 seconds.

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The invalidity of your argument is once again blatant to the point of farce. First of all I am not a woman, again proving your unremarkable ability to assume without any evidence. How was I to leave the store with security tags? The exit has scanners you cannot walk around.

I probably would have yelled for help if he had not backed off and explain who he was, by the time he did I was actually quite co-operative because I assumed he wanted to ask me why I had the items, as opposed to jumping down my throat with conclusions of his own.

And as to the 30 seconds, where are you getting this figure? I intend to plead not guilty, defer the trial until I have had proper counsel and then fight whatever evidence is brought against me.

You know nothing about me and yet you think you can come to conclusions such as these.
You are acting like a bully, an ignorant and ineffective one, it is exactly your kind of decorum I would hope the courts find deplorable.

This is really the crux of the matter:

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I was concealing the items because I had intent to steal them, however at the time I had the means to pay for everything concelead and was debating leaving with them or paying.

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You have committed a crime. You have no reasonable defense. By all means plead not guilty, and try to fight what will essentially be a pointless battle.

You keep changing your story... :rolleyes:

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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THere is no reason to remove the tags otherwise, they had no security sensors.

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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How was I to leave the store with security tags? The exit has scanners you cannot walk around.

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Quoting That Guy

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You keep changing your story... :rolleyes:

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The tags I removed did not have security sensors

The ones I left on did

I left the tags on the Dvds, one Boxset and two films

I took the tags off underwear and socks

Ok I have a quick question, I have been mulling over this quite a bit.
I was in fact by definition, concealing items, whether or not I had intentions of stealing this fact is undeniable. Is it relevant to a court whether or not I had intentions of stealing?

If I am convicted of concealment, will this be grouped under the same category as shoplifting?

As far as I can tell the answer is yes they are.

I realize Im probably wasting my time here and should just wait until I can talk to a lawyer, but getting my story straight and off my chest helps.

If you were concealing the items with intent to steal them, as per your first few posts, that's shoplifting.

If you put them in a store container (like a shopping cart) and went to the ATM to get cash to pay for them, you should be fine. If you didn't remove any security tags, didn't conceal anything, and were in the process of paying for them, as you said in your more recent posts, then you hardly have to worry about being convicted, and you can subpoena the surveillance video for yourself even if they don't use it.

But you still have to face the judge, and spinning a fanciful yarn on expertlaw.com will not help you there. You could tell us that you'd never been caught with anything and we would give you advice on what to do given the information you presented, but it wouldn't help you if you actually stole.

Talk with your lawyer about it, and make sure you tell the truth. Your lawyer is there to help you, and he needs all of the facts, even the unpleasant ones. Lying to your lawyer, much like lying on this forum, will only result in bad advice based on false information— you can lie to us, your lawyer, and the judge but none of it will make the facts go away.

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Quoting TheArgumentative

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If you were concealing the items with intent to steal them, as per your first few posts, that's shoplifting.

If you put them in a store container (like a shopping cart) and went to the ATM to get cash to pay for them, you should be fine. If you didn't remove any security tags, didn't conceal anything, and were in the process of paying for them, as you said in your more recent posts, then you hardly have to worry about being convicted, and you can subpoena the surveillance video for yourself even if they don't use it.

But you still have to face the judge, and spinning a fanciful yarn on expertlaw.com will not help you there. You could tell us that you'd never been caught with anything and we would give you advice on what to do given the information you presented, but it wouldn't help you if you actually stole.

Talk with your lawyer about it, and make sure you tell the truth. Your lawyer is there to help you, and he needs all of the facts, even the unpleasant ones. Lying to your lawyer, much like lying on this forum, will only result in bad advice based on false information— you can lie to us, your lawyer, and the judge but none of it will make the facts go away.

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This is good advice thank you. I was technically concealing them by definition, although I was also heading towards an ATM and I will talk to my lawyer about a subpoena for the camera records.

Worst case scenario, assuming I am convicted, do you have any clarity or insight as to how long it would take to have my misdemeanor sealed and or expunged? (I am in Massachusetts) Would this length be lessened if I pleaded guilty in the first place?

To be truthful I am on the fence about pleading guilty or not, I know now what I did was illegal, but it was illegal on the pretenses I intended to steal. And I can say without a shadow of doubt or second-guessing myself I did not intend to steal any of the items on my person.

I should have stuck with this story in the first place, but I was foolish. Do you know if they can use what I said outside of court as evidence against me? Or is this considered hearsay? Will they even want to use it? What length will be gone in order to prosecute me assuming I am willing to pay the civil fine. I am asking primarily from people with experience as opposed to mere conjecture.

I learned my lesson here, I will never conceal any items on my person when shopping in the future. Nor will I remove any tags regardless of circumstances. Do you think this will hold up? In the end essentially I am willing to do whatever is necessary to have my record clean as soon as possible.

I love this thread.

A few questions for you!!!!!

#1 Were you passed all open and operating cash registers with the exception of guest services.

#2 How close were you to the "Security towers"

#3 Your original intention was to ____________ the items? (Fill in the blank)

#4 You are retaining a lawyer to help you get the evidence you need to help forumulate a proper defense in this case? (Yes or No)

#5 Have you stolen items before and gotten away with it? (yes or no)

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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I should have stuck with this story in the first place, but I was foolish. Do you know if they can use what I said outside of court as evidence against me? Or is this considered hearsay? Will they even want to use it?

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It is a story in the first place...not the truth. In court, the best thing to do is tell the truth and own your actions. And yes they can use what you said outside court against you and it is not hearsay unless someone says that they heard someone else say that you said....

Get it?

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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Worst case scenario, assuming I am convicted, do you have any clarity or insight as to how long it would take to have my misdemeanor sealed and or expunged? (I am in Massachusetts) Would this length be lessened if I pleaded guilty in the first place?

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You can't have it expunged. You can get it sealed after a 10-15 year waiting period. That's hardly satisfactory if you're actually innocent but may be the best you can get if you're guilty. Pleading guilty at arraignment cannot possibly help you, and in any case, a conviction is a conviction regardless of whether you were convicted by a jury or pled guilty.

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To be truthful I am on the fence about pleading guilty or not, I know now what I did was illegal, but it was illegal on the pretenses I intended to steal. And I can say without a shadow of doubt or second-guessing myself I did not intend to steal any of the items on my person.

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Get off the fence: Don't. Pleading guilty at arraignment cannot help you. You need to talk with a lawyer first; you might want to plead guilty to a lesser offense under a plea bargain but you'll need to plead not guilty at first and get a lawyer to even negotiate one.

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I should have stuck with this story in the first place, but I was foolish. Do you know if they can use what I said outside of court as evidence against me? Or is this considered hearsay? Will they even want to use it? What length will be gone in order to prosecute me assuming I am willing to pay the civil fine. I am asking primarily from people with experience as opposed to mere conjecture.

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What you say outside of court can be used in court, yes. In practice, I doubt any judge would allow your postings here to be admitted even if it was possible to link them to you, though. There's too much lying on the internet; anonymous posts are automatically suspect, so an anonymous internet confession would probably not be admitted as an actual honest confession in a court.

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I learned my lesson here, I will never conceal any items on my person when shopping in the future. Nor will I remove any tags regardless of circumstances. Do you think this will hold up? In the end essentially I am willing to do whatever is necessary to have my record clean as soon as possible.

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Well... if you actually committed a crime, saying "I won't do it again" won't get you off, no.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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This is really the crux of the matter:



You have committed a crime. You have no reasonable defense. By all means plead not guilty, and try to fight what will essentially be a pointless battle.

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So...now you're claiming you didn't intend to steal?

Look at the your original posts. You had every intention - you just lost the nerve.

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Quoting bam!

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I love this thread.

A few questions for you!!!!!

#1 Were you passed all open and operating cash registers with the exception of guest services.

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Yes I was, I was near guest services, The ATM was in between Guest services and the Registers, and the exists were to the left and right of guest services (Guest services is located in a corner of the store).

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Quoting bam!

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#2 How close were you to the "Security towers"

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You're going to have to be more specific, I'm not familiar with security towers

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Quoting bam!

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#3 Your original intention was to ____________ the items? (Fill in the blank)

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Purchase the items.

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Quoting bam!

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#4 You are retaining a lawyer to help you get the evidence you need to help
forumulate a proper defense in this case? (Yes or No)

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Yes I am planning to retain a public defense lawyer and assuming he is not satisfactory I have the means to pay for a private criminal defense lawyer.

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Quoting bam!

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#5 Have you stolen items before and gotten away with it? (yes or no)

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Absolutely not, I will reiterate I am not a thief. The only reason I have not deleted previous posts saying I even considered theft, is because I want to set the record as straight as possible.

I did unfortunately sign documents at target stating I had concealed various items. I can't for the life of me remember if they specifically mentioned theft. But listen, I just wanted to pay for the goods and get out of there, I honestly never imagined I was going to be arrested, even when the police were involved I assumed it was a formality. By the time they explained I was in danger of being convicted of a misdemeanor and possible felony, all I wanted to do was co-operate and expedite the process. I didn't want to argue because I didn't want to upset the officers or employee or spend any more time than necessary in the store holding pen or a jail cell.

If memory serves me right, you only have 15 minutes to alter or delete a post. Your comments are saved until the earth explodes.

Oh my God. You think the camera is going to prove your innnocence when you have stated this:

The tags I removed did not have security sensors

The ones I left on did

I left the tags on the Dvds, one Boxset and two films

I took the tags off underwear and socks

Um...Sir/Maam...

- Socks come in a few sizes. If you are an adult and don't know what size you wear....you need serious help.

- Trying on Underwear....same thing.

and you acknowledge taking tags off things without sensors, and leaving them on stuff with sensors....

Dude/Lady....take responsibility for your actions.....

@PandorasBox

I fail to grasp your point. I did not remove any tags that would go off assuming I attempted to leave the store . How does this work against me? If I was a thief wouldnt I have removed said tags?

The only tags I removed would not have gone off even if I had left them on through a sensor. Not to mention, the tags WERE IN MY BAG.

I do take full responsibility of damage to Target Merchandise for which I am willing to pay whatever the cost. I do not however accept the accusation of theft.

We don't know the full details of your plan. You have told us that, beyond your stated intent to steal, they're secret.

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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The ATM was in between Guest services and the Registers, and the exists were to the left and right of guest services (Guest services is located in a corner of the store).

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For future reference (let's pretend that you didn't already know), you can use the ATM/Debit card to pay for purchases at Target registers (ANY/ALL Targets)... You can also get cash back. In fact, using your ATM/Debit card at a Target register, saves you the $2 (or whatever) fee that you would get charged at the ATM!

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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@PandorasBox

I fail to grasp your point. I did not remove any tags that would go off assuming I attempted to leave the store . How does this work against me? If I was a thief wouldnt I have removed said tags?

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You have to realize that a judge, upon hearing your theory here, is going to either roll her/his eyes and/or simply laugh and convict you.

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The only tags I removed would not have gone off even if I had left them on through a sensor. Not to mention, the tags WERE IN MY BAG.

I do take full responsibility of damage to Target Merchandise for which I am willing to pay whatever the cost. I do not however accept the accusation of theft.

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What aren't you understanding here? Seriously? :confused:

You've already been provided with statute, with reason, with explanation.

The fact that YOU don't want to agree is really not the point.