Concealing Items With Intent to Shoplift

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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@cyjeff, just want to thank you for your post which made me chuckle quite a bit. There is no way for me to denying taking the tags off, or "concealing the items". Out of curiosity, where do you think the line is drawn between concealed or not concealed, if I am grocery shopping and certain groceries are in my cart but hidden under other groceries, am I concealing them? Please explain how having items in a bag, A TARGET SHOPPING BAG, is in any way different?

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The moment you move their products into your container, you are concealing.

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I'm not arguing it isn't different I am just curious how you personally see it to be different.

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There you go.

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You can name-call all you want but it is only going to make me laugh, I know I am no thief, I lied because I thought being remorseful would bring me sympathy. I have learned here that is the exact opposite of how I should be acting so I will no longer be trying to play to any crowd or sympathies. Being nice or not has nothing to do with Bias.

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I am actually a heck of a person.

Having said that, you stole... you considered stealing and were performing the act. It is not calling you a name...thief is simply your actions' description.

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: an inclination of temperament or outlook; especially : a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment

"I am really ok if a suspected thief thinks I am unreasonable" Well thats all good and fine but you are not a judge, so I don't really care about your feelings. What I care about is what information you can give me. And so far you have been relatively helpful so for that I am grateful, thank you.

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Good. that is why we are here.

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And as to your last quote, I was in shock, and when I am under stress and pressure I lie, this is not an unreasonable human response. Now that I have had time to think about it, this is simply what the police officer and target employee told me, not what I was actually thinking.

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Oh, so you were lying then but not lying now... so the issue is not that you lie but when?

you should warn me when it is going to get this deep... I would have worn waders.

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Quoting cyjeff

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The moment you move their products into your container, you are concealing.

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Afford me the benefit of the doubt here for a moment,

It was a target bag, it was their container, yes I recognize they did give me the bag and I should have gotten a separate cart, but I didn't. Do I deserve a misdemeanor on my record for such a small error in judgment?

Yes I took tags off merchandise, but the tags were still on my person, why would I have kept the tags if I didn't intend to have them scanned? There were blatant security tags on half the merchandise which were left untouched.

I was apprehended while walking NOT towards the exit, but towards the ATM (hence why I hope they include video tapes). Yes I did try to leave when I was approached but only because I was afraid of the person approaching me. I had no idea he was an employee. If a strange unshaven man in a dark Grey sweatshirt and Grey sweatpants grabbed you and said come with me, would you not flee?

Maybe I am a coward, and should have stood up and explained my situation, but I didn't. I am not a confident person when caught off guard, and sitting alone in a small room with three police officers and a target employee out for blood it is not easy to speak coherently and with conviction.

Again I recognize these are crimes, but circumstances are relevant, the whole point of a fair trial is for me to explain circumstances. I am an American Citizen I do my best to obey the laws of my state, I am sorry I wasn't aware of the laws as well as I should have been hence my name.

Of course I realize the foolishness of putting items in a bag when I think back on it. But at the time was I thinking? No , it should be quite obvious I wasn't. I do not think I deserve to be grouped with people who have no regards for laws or ethics.

You can say whatever you like, but deep down I know I would never steal, of course this could all be bullshit, but you can say that about anything anyone ever says. I have credibility, I intend to prove my credibility to anyone willing to listen, that is all I really have to say.

Anyway it feels good to get all that out, I hope I'll be able to say as much in court, and even if I'm convicted I'll know it was wrongfully so.

Three words...

CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER.

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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Afford me the benefit of the doubt here for a moment,

It was a target bag, it was their container, yes I recognize they did give me the bag and I should have gotten a separate cart, but I didn't. Do I deserve a misdemeanor on my record for such a small error in judgment?

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The law says yes.

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Yes I took tags off merchandise, but the tags were still on my person, why would I have kept the tags if I didn't intend to have them scanned? There were blatant security tags on half the merchandise which were left untouched.

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Because leaving the tags behind would have told the nice people you were stealing.

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I was apprehended while walking NOT towards the exit, but towards the ATM (hence why I hope they include video tapes). Yes I did try to leave when I was approached but only because I was afraid of the person approaching me. I had no idea he was an employee. If a strange unshaven man in a dark Grey sweatshirt and Grey sweatpants grabbed you and said come with me, would you not flee?

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I would have yelled for a cop or help from any number of the surrounding people. Did you?

No, of course you didn't... because you know who he was and why he grabbed you.

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Maybe I am a coward, and should have stood up and explained my situation, but I didn't. I am not a confident person when caught off guard, and sitting alone in a small room with three police officers and a target employee out for blood it is not easy to speak coherently and with conviction.

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That is, actually, the intent.

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Again I recognize these are crimes, but circumstances are relevant, the whole point of a fair trial is for me to explain circumstances. I am an American Citizen I do my best to obey the laws of my state, I am sorry I wasn't aware of the laws as well as I should have been hence my name.

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Again, ignorance of the law is not an affirmative defense.

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Of course I realize the foolishness of putting items in a bag when I think back on it. But at the time was I thinking? No , it should be quite obvious I wasn't. I do not think I deserve to be grouped with people who have no regards for laws or ethics.

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You mean like thieves (attempted or not) and liars?

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You can say whatever you like, but deep down I know I would never steal, of course this could all be bullshit, but you can say that about anything anyone ever says. I have credibility, I intend to prove my credibility to anyone willing to listen, that is all I really have to say.

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Lady... YOU said you were trying to work up the nerve. YOU know you were going to steal. YOU know you had planned to steal and YOU know that the bust is good.

Whatever you tell yourself to let yourself sleep, fine.

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Anyway it feels good to get all that out, I hope I'll be able to say as much in court, and even if I'm convicted I'll know it was wrongfully so.

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You really won't.

You will have about 30 seconds.

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Quoting cyjeff

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The law says yes.



Because leaving the tags behind would have told the nice people you were stealing.



I would have yelled for a cop or help from any number of the surrounding people. Did you?

No, of course you didn't... because you know who he was and why he grabbed you.



That is, actually, the intent.



Again, ignorance of the law is not an affirmative defense.



You mean like thieves (attempted or not) and liars?



Lady... YOU said you were trying to work up the nerve. YOU know you were going to steal. YOU know you had planned to steal and YOU know that the bust is good.

Whatever you tell yourself to let yourself sleep, fine.



You really won't.

You will have about 30 seconds.

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The invalidity of your argument is once again blatant to the point of farce. First of all I am not a woman, again proving your unremarkable ability to assume without any evidence. How was I to leave the store with security tags? The exit has scanners you cannot walk around.

I probably would have yelled for help if he had not backed off and explain who he was, by the time he did I was actually quite co-operative because I assumed he wanted to ask me why I had the items, as opposed to jumping down my throat with conclusions of his own.

And as to the 30 seconds, where are you getting this figure? I intend to plead not guilty, defer the trial until I have had proper counsel and then fight whatever evidence is brought against me.

You know nothing about me and yet you think you can come to conclusions such as these.
You are acting like a bully, an ignorant and ineffective one, it is exactly your kind of decorum I would hope the courts find deplorable.

This is really the crux of the matter:

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I was concealing the items because I had intent to steal them, however at the time I had the means to pay for everything concelead and was debating leaving with them or paying.

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You have committed a crime. You have no reasonable defense. By all means plead not guilty, and try to fight what will essentially be a pointless battle.

You keep changing your story... :rolleyes:

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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THere is no reason to remove the tags otherwise, they had no security sensors.

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Quoting RepentingCitizen

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How was I to leave the store with security tags? The exit has scanners you cannot walk around.

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Quoting That Guy

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You keep changing your story... :rolleyes:

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The tags I removed did not have security sensors

The ones I left on did

I left the tags on the Dvds, one Boxset and two films

I took the tags off underwear and socks

Ok I have a quick question, I have been mulling over this quite a bit.
I was in fact by definition, concealing items, whether or not I had intentions of stealing this fact is undeniable. Is it relevant to a court whether or not I had intentions of stealing?

If I am convicted of concealment, will this be grouped under the same category as shoplifting?

As far as I can tell the answer is yes they are.

I realize Im probably wasting my time here and should just wait until I can talk to a lawyer, but getting my story straight and off my chest helps.

If you were concealing the items with intent to steal them, as per your first few posts, that's shoplifting.

If you put them in a store container (like a shopping cart) and went to the ATM to get cash to pay for them, you should be fine. If you didn't remove any security tags, didn't conceal anything, and were in the process of paying for them, as you said in your more recent posts, then you hardly have to worry about being convicted, and you can subpoena the surveillance video for yourself even if they don't use it.

But you still have to face the judge, and spinning a fanciful yarn on expertlaw.com will not help you there. You could tell us that you'd never been caught with anything and we would give you advice on what to do given the information you presented, but it wouldn't help you if you actually stole.

Talk with your lawyer about it, and make sure you tell the truth. Your lawyer is there to help you, and he needs all of the facts, even the unpleasant ones. Lying to your lawyer, much like lying on this forum, will only result in bad advice based on false information— you can lie to us, your lawyer, and the judge but none of it will make the facts go away.

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Quoting TheArgumentative

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If you were concealing the items with intent to steal them, as per your first few posts, that's shoplifting.

If you put them in a store container (like a shopping cart) and went to the ATM to get cash to pay for them, you should be fine. If you didn't remove any security tags, didn't conceal anything, and were in the process of paying for them, as you said in your more recent posts, then you hardly have to worry about being convicted, and you can subpoena the surveillance video for yourself even if they don't use it.

But you still have to face the judge, and spinning a fanciful yarn on expertlaw.com will not help you there. You could tell us that you'd never been caught with anything and we would give you advice on what to do given the information you presented, but it wouldn't help you if you actually stole.

Talk with your lawyer about it, and make sure you tell the truth. Your lawyer is there to help you, and he needs all of the facts, even the unpleasant ones. Lying to your lawyer, much like lying on this forum, will only result in bad advice based on false information— you can lie to us, your lawyer, and the judge but none of it will make the facts go away.

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This is good advice thank you. I was technically concealing them by definition, although I was also heading towards an ATM and I will talk to my lawyer about a subpoena for the camera records.

Worst case scenario, assuming I am convicted, do you have any clarity or insight as to how long it would take to have my misdemeanor sealed and or expunged? (I am in Massachusetts) Would this length be lessened if I pleaded guilty in the first place?

To be truthful I am on the fence about pleading guilty or not, I know now what I did was illegal, but it was illegal on the pretenses I intended to steal. And I can say without a shadow of doubt or second-guessing myself I did not intend to steal any of the items on my person.

I should have stuck with this story in the first place, but I was foolish. Do you know if they can use what I said outside of court as evidence against me? Or is this considered hearsay? Will they even want to use it? What length will be gone in order to prosecute me assuming I am willing to pay the civil fine. I am asking primarily from people with experience as opposed to mere conjecture.

I learned my lesson here, I will never conceal any items on my person when shopping in the future. Nor will I remove any tags regardless of circumstances. Do you think this will hold up? In the end essentially I am willing to do whatever is necessary to have my record clean as soon as possible.