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  • 12-20-2009, 01:51 PM
    hilltopperdad
    Bench Warrant and Campus Police
    My question involves an arrest warrant from the State of: Kentucky

    I will try to be concise...daughter, 19, away at school. Twice during the past two weeks she felt she was "followed" by police officer in patrol car. Both times between 1-2am. First time officer sat behind her parked car in dorm parking lot for 20 minutes after following her from fast food restaurant for 2 miles. Never got out of his vehicle in her dorm parking lot. Second time was this past Friday morning. Followed from same fast food restaurant, stopped as she pulled into parking lot, officer drove around lot on street and stopped to watch her get out of car. She was frightened, called home then decided to call campus police to report it.

    Campus police came to her dorm and took report. She had received a DUI a year earlier while at school. She told these campus police that one of the officers involved, a trainee, had contacted her via Facebook 2 days following her DUI arrest. That, and these two recent incidents she felt might be related. Her sense was that the two campus police officers did not believe her.

    They left. They returned 30-45 minutes later to arrest her on a bench warrant from another county. They would not show her, give her or tell her what the bench warrant was for other than "failure to comply". She was taken to jail. We learned that it was for an unpaid speeding ticket a year earlier that we thought had been taken care of by our attorney. Miscommunication somewhere. We paid the speeding ticket a few hours later and she was released.

    This was finals week and she had one last final exam to take.

    My question is more about the actions of the campus police in taking the opportunity at 3am on the last day of finals to arrest a student on a bench warrant from another county after they came in contact with the student because she called them to share her concern for her safety due to what she perceived as inappropriate actions of a police officer.

    Were they sending a message?
  • 12-20-2009, 02:07 PM
    cyjeff
    Re: Bench Warrant and Campus Police
    Yes.

    the message would be, "If you have an outstanding warrant and call the police, the police will arrest you for it."

    I cannot pretend to understand the action of the officer.

    Has your adult daughter contacted the police station to talk to that officer's supervisor?
  • 12-20-2009, 02:14 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Bench Warrant and Campus Police
    For whatever reason they found out about the warrant later on and then acted on it.

    You have to understand what a warrant is - it is an ORDER by a judge "commanding" law enforcement officers to take the person in to custody. It is not a suggestion or a prompt that says, "when you have a moment ..." it is a command by a court to take a person into custody.

    I know that if I found out one of my officers had located a person, let her go, later discovered she was a wanted person and then refused to go back and attempt service, that officer would be in deep kimshee!
  • 12-20-2009, 02:20 PM
    hilltopperdad
    Re: Bench Warrant and Campus Police
    Plan to contact supervisor to follow-up on the report she filed. County in which the bench warrant was issued was surprised she was put in jail for it, their words.

    Interesting that you have no comments on why she contacted the police to begin with and their apparent disbelief of what she was reporting. Felt like a message was being sent.

    Why would they not present her with the warrant or tell her what it was for? She asked repeatedly.
  • 12-20-2009, 02:27 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Bench Warrant and Campus Police
    Quote:

    Quoting hilltopperdad
    View Post
    Plan to contact supervisor to follow-up on the report she filed. County in which the bench warrant was issued was surprised she was put in jail for it, their words.

    Different counties have different practices. The campus officers probably were told there was a warrant and that she was able to be taken in to custody for it. So, they acted on it.

    Quote:

    Interesting that you have no comments on why she contacted the police to begin with and their apparent disbelief of what she was reporting. Felt like a message was being sent.
    It did not appear relevant to the situation for which she was arrested.

    If she has a problem with an officer from another agency, she should probably speak to a supervisor in THAT agency. There could be any number of reasons why the officer was present and why he was watching her or her car. Maybe he is a pervert stalker who managed to sneak through the process, or, maybe there is some legitimate reason. I know of officers who have been accused of doing much the same thing when, in fact, the person in question was thought to be transporting dope and they were being watched to see where they were going and who they were meeting. There could be alternative reasons as to why she was being watched. The place to express that concern is with the agency that employs the officer exhibiting the behavior, not with another agency.

    Quote:

    Why would they not present her with the warrant or tell her what it was for? She asked repeatedly.
    Because they likely did not have it in their possession.

    When we are told of a warrant, we MIGHT be told what the offense is, but generally we are told that a warrant exists for the subject and that the person is subject to booking or cite and release. What the process was in her locale, I can't say. But, when she was booked into the jail, they almost certainly managed to obtain a copy of the abstract of the warrant which should have had that information on it. Apparently it did. The officers do not need that information in hand when they make an arrest for a warrant.
  • 12-20-2009, 02:52 PM
    KeyWestDan
    Re: Bench Warrant and Campus Police
    It is general practice to run victims and other people the police come in contact with for wants and warrants. They usually do it on the spot, or they might do it later. The police want to know who they are dealing with, in part for their own protection and sometimes to assess the credibility of a witness. They had a duty to make an arrest if there is a warrant in NCIC, regardless of old it was or how stupid you think it was. There was probably no message there. Besides your speculation is pointless and meaningless.

    Being contacted by a police officer on Facebook or in any other way for that matter is absolutely inappropriate and wrong. This and the following of her car should be reported to the police department's internal affairs. Forget the supervisor.

    She also should have called the police immediately while the police car was still there.

    There are cops that stalk, etc. There is a CA case where a cop ran 6,700 women through NCIC in a three month period to get their personal information as "potential" dates. Improper use of NCIC is a federal felony.
  • 12-20-2009, 03:31 PM
    cyjeff
    Re: Bench Warrant and Campus Police
    Quote:

    Quoting hilltopperdad
    View Post
    Plan to contact supervisor to follow-up on the report she filed. County in which the bench warrant was issued was surprised she was put in jail for it, their words.

    Then they shouldn't have issued the warrant.

    That is what happens when a warrant skip is caught.

    Quote:

    Interesting that you have no comments on why she contacted the police to begin with and their apparent disbelief of what she was reporting. Felt like a message was being sent.
    My exact statement was "I cannot pretend to understand the action of the officer."

    That means I don't know what the officer's motivation was. For all we know, he was looking for her on the warrant.

    Or he could be a creep wearing a badge. Or he could have been watching to see how she walked out of the car before busting her for driving impaired.

    I still don't know.

    Hence my advise for your adult daughter to contact his supervisor.

    You seem to keep falling back on this mysterious "message" that was sent. If this was the case, you would think that your daughter would have been informed of the content of the message by now. Maybe she does.

    Quote:

    Why would they not present her with the warrant or tell her what it was for? She asked repeatedly.
    They may not have known why... just that there was a warrant.

    Oh, I see Carl covered that.
  • 12-20-2009, 03:38 PM
    hilltopperdad
    Re: Bench Warrant and Campus Police
    OK, let's try this, if they knew exactly what it was for, would they have told her? Would you have told her? If they/you did not know, would that be explained to the person being arrested?

    I think the point of this situation goes well beyond the bench warrant (it of course was legitimate and needed to be dealt with), to our daughter and to us this is about why she had contacted the campus police to begin with and their attitude about it and then their attitude during the arrest.

    Let's assume that the trainee that contacted her via Facebook following her DUI (which I hope you think is very inappropriate) and the officer or officers that our daughter felt were following her are all part of the campus police. So she did contact the appropriate agency. What should she expect they are going to do about it? She offered to show them the Facebook page and they weren't interested.

    If none of the involved officers are part of the campus police, wouldn't you expect the campus police to suggest she contact the city police?

    She is sharing her concern for her safety with THE POLICE (let's set aside which agency she should be contacting) and is expecting them to also be concerned for her safety. They appear not to be and then come back later to arrest her. How should she feel at this point?

    My son just told me about an incident with another driver in a shopping center parking lot where the other driver, admittedly driving 40 mph in a 10, almost ran into him at a stop sign. My son reacts by throwing up his hands in disgust. Guy gets out and asks what his problem is, etc. They have words, son stays in vehicle. Guys goes back and starts to pull out a pipe. Son reminds him of all the cameras on the buildings. Guy put down pipe and then identifies himself as a member of the local campus police (different school, different part of the state) and says "he is the law and can drive as fast as he wants wherever he wants". Son gets his badge number and license plate number (he is driving his civilian car). Son reports him to the campus police and they could have cared less.

    Again, my question to you is how should he feel now about trusting the police to be concerned about him as a citizen v one of their own?

    Quote:

    Quoting cyjeff
    View Post
    Then they shouldn't have issued the warrant.

    That is what happens when a warrant skip is caught.



    My exact statement was "I cannot pretend to understand the action of the officer."

    That means I don't know what the officer's motivation was. For all we know, he was looking for her on the warrant.

    Or he could be a creep wearing a badge. Or he could have been watching to see how she walked out of the car before busting her for driving impaired.

    I still don't know.

    Hence my advise for your adult daughter to contact his supervisor.

    You seem to keep falling back on this mysterious "message" that was sent. If this was the case, you would think that your daughter would have been informed of the content of the message by now. Maybe she does.



    They may not have known why... just that there was a warrant.

    Oh, I see Carl covered that.

    What is the message you think they might be delivering? She complained about the police, they don't seem to take it seriously, are not interested in the evidence she can share, and then they come back to arrest her (again, do not lecture me about the bench warrant, etc., I get that). And I get that she is an adult at the age of 19, she was when she rec'd the DUI. She paid that price and has learned from it.

    btw - the car/plates are in her mother's name, so unless he/they know the car, they have no ability to be looking for her to serve a year old bench warrant for a speeding ticket in another county.

    And if he is a creep with a badge, who does she turn to for some help and concern for her safety? She tried that once and got this.
  • 12-20-2009, 04:24 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Bench Warrant and Campus Police
    Quote:

    Quoting hilltopperdad
    View Post
    OK, let's try this, if they knew exactly what it was for, would they have told her? Would you have told her? If they/you did not know, would that be explained to the person being arrested?

    If they knew, they might have told her, but there is no way to know if they would have. When I know, I usually say something AFTER they are in custody. I might tell the person that the warrant is for a failure to appear. rarely am I going to have ANY more detail than that until I obtain a copy o the abstract, and that may not happen until booking. Sometimes the abstract contains little detail, only a date of issuance and the court that did the issuing.

    Quote:

    Let's assume that the trainee that contacted her via Facebook following her DUI (which I hope you think is very inappropriate)
    Potentially, to be certain. But, not necessarily a violation of policy and not criminal in any way, by itself. There are a few people that I have as "friends" on Facebook that I have had to deal with professionally before ... though THEY made the "friend" request, not me. Sometimes it happens.

    Quote:

    and the officer or officers that our daughter felt were following her are all part of the campus police. So she did contact the appropriate agency.
    She apparently tried to report this as a crime of some kind, not as an internal matter. What she should have done was contact a supervisor to look into it. It might be possible that the officers are standing up for one another, or, more likely, when back at the station and looking into the issue and what to do, someone ran her name and found the warrant. Sure, it could have been intended to be a means of cooling her off from reporting one of their own for being infatuated with your daughter, but it could have been entirely professional as well. Without reading minds of all the parties involved, or conducting in depth interviews (as might happen as a result of a personnel complaint to a supervisor) we just cannot know what was in anyone's mind. She can interpret it, of course, any way she wishes to.

    Quote:

    What should she expect they are going to do about it? She offered to show them the Facebook page and they weren't interested.
    She should have reported it to a supervisor at the agency, not called to report it to the officer's peers. In fact, the officers should have referred her to a supervisor.

    And, of course, saying hello on Facebook is not criminal nor, likely, a violation of policy.

    Quote:

    If none of the involved officers are part of the campus police, wouldn't you expect the campus police to suggest she contact the city police?
    Now I am confused ... was the following officer a campus officer or a city officer? She SHOULD have reported her concerns about the conduct of the officer that followed her and contacted her on Facebook to that officer's agency, not to the campus police. Realistically, the campus police should have referred her to the officer's employing agency. On the other hand, maybe they brought it to their supervisor who might make that decision. I would have forwarded the matter to the appropriate agency.

    Quote:

    Guy put down pipe and then identifies himself as a member of the local campus police (different school, different part of the state) and says "he is the law and can drive as fast as he wants wherever he wants". Son gets his badge number and license plate number (he is driving his civilian car). Son reports him to the campus police and they could have cared less.
    Sounds like a supervision and administration problem.

    We cannot explain the hiring, training, or supervisory positions of every agency in the country. Ignoring such a complaint out of hand is highly unprofessional. Perhaps nothing would have come from an investigation, but I would hope that the agency would take your son's complaint and look into the matter - and to the officer. If he has such a temper and such an attitude, then there are probably other complaints and he is a potential liability. They MAY have looked into it. All because they did not suddenly go running around and get all excited does not mean that nothing was done. Don' mistake no OBVIOUS action as no action at all.

    Quote:

    Again, my question to you is how should he feel now about trusting the police to be concerned about him as a citizen v one of their own?
    I don't know how she should feel. The officers acted on a warrant. Some other officer gave her the heebie-jeebies but did not do anything. If she wants to feel intimidated, she will feel intimidated. If she has a problem, she needs to take it up with someone of rank at the two agencies (city and campus) and let them look into it if they will. And if she is in such a precarious state that she feels she cannot trust any of the cops - local or campus - perhaps it is time to change schools or move out of state. Training and professionalism vary by agency and by state, so it could be that your local campus cops - or even local municipal police - are poorly screened or trained. Who knows?

    Quote:

    And if he is a creep with a badge, who does she turn to for some help and concern for her safety? She tried that once and got this.
    She goes to the station employing the officer that has given her concern, asks to speak with a supervisor (usually a sergeant) or an administrator (often a lieutenant or higher rank) and explains things to that person.
  • 12-20-2009, 05:12 PM
    hilltopperdad
    Re: Bench Warrant and Campus Police
    Thanks, I appreciate the conversation and the suggestions.
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