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What Chance Do I Have of Success

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  • 12-03-2009, 02:29 PM
    mr.jmb
    What Chance Do I Have of Success
    My question involves traffic court in the State of: Washington.

    Here is my story.
    I am a Scout Master and I was traveling at the head of my troop from Deception Pass where we had camped for the night to Fort Casey where we were to spend a couple hours wandering around. I was driving down Eagle Road towards Fort Casey fallowing about 200ft behind an Island Transit Bus.
    I had two passengers one adult and his son as well as one vehicle with two adults in my party who were fallowing just behind me. I was traveling at no greater than 40mph when I approached a reduced speed sign. I took my foot off the pedal and began to slow down, we reached a 25mph sign before a turn. Shortly after I looked away from the 25mph sign a police officer traveling towards us in the opposite lane passed me and made an immediate u turn behind me. He turned on his lights and pulled me over. He said I was going 50mph when I came around the turn. He ended up giving me a ticket for going 30 in a 25 and proceeded to say that I was slowing down but he made a note that my actual speed was 50. I didn't argue because at the time I did not realize that the speed limit along Eagle road is actually 50mph up until the 25mph sign. The officer lead me to believe that I was speeding from back at the first turn onto Eagle road. It was not until I came back that I saw the 50mph sign going the opposite direction. The adult passenger and the two adults fallowing me all agree that we never even exceeded 40mph in the 50mph zone and we were slowing down after we passed the reduced speed sign.

    I am wondering how I could have accelerated to 50 when my foot was off the gas pedal. And If i were traveling at 50 when the bus was going 25 around the turn wouldn't I have run into the bus?:wallbang: Also we had hardly begun to come around the turn when I saw the officer. The officer said "you were going 50 when you came around that corner back there" this is one reason I was lead to believe I was speeding from the last corner. He also said when he handed me the ticket "I'm going to cite you for going 30 in a 25 because you were slowing down but I made a note that you were actually going 50". The officer did not say anything about an SMD but he did check it on the ticket.

    So I have decided to Contest and I have never done this before so I'm hoping to learn some things from you guys.

    So far I have learned that it many cases it is a good idea to file discovery, subpoena officer, and SMD tech. Would these be good things in my case?
    I don't think I could ask the three working fathers who were with me to take a day off work to go to court with me as witnesses and from what I have heard the judge might just dismiss their written testimonies. I have not had a ticket is 6 years and I may be eligible for a dismissal, so that may be an option. Also what is a "stay". I read somewhere that a stay can give a person 6 months or a year of probation assuming no further citations?

    This is roughly the layout when I saw the police vehicle.

    http://www.precisionearthworks.com/suburban/map.jpg
  • 12-04-2009, 06:40 AM
    blewis
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    If you haven't read through this thread yet, you probably should. Then if you have some specific questions, feel free to post them.

    Barry
  • 12-04-2009, 12:00 PM
    mr.jmb
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    I did read your very helpful information. Thank you.

    So as of right now I have not yet sent in the ticket. I read somewhere that it is a good idea to go ahead and send in a check for the bail amount just in case something happens and i cant make it.

    Will I possibly be given the option to choose a date or will they assign one to me? I may only be given a chance for deferral before a case begins right? So what if I submit a Discovery Request set a court date and subpoena witnesses? Do you think I might still be given the opportunity for deferral If i find that the prosecutor has overwhelming evidence?

    This is a question about procedure and wording while in court.
    In the section about Discovery you say "move to have the sworn statement suppressed pursuant to IRLJ 3.1(b), then move for dismissal due to lack of evidence."
    So if I were to take this action in court would I just say something like "I would like to make a motion to have the sworn statement suppressed pursuant to IRLJ 3.1"? Then " I would like to move for dismissal due to lack of evidence."
    I plan on going to my local court house to witness some trials In hopes that it might help me to be a little more comfortable in court.

    Is it helpful or of any use in court to have a map like I put together above?
    I also took pictures and measurements.
  • 12-04-2009, 03:32 PM
    blewis
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    I don't know where you read about sending in "bail". I've never seen nor heard of it being done in WA. We don't have "bail" for traffic infractions -- DUI's, reckless, yes, as they are misdemeanors. But, not infractions. In fact, I heard of one case, where the defendant checked "contested", but enclosed the fine. The court entered a "guilty" judgment because you're only supposed to pay the fine if you do not wish to contest the ticket. See RCW 46.63.070. He was in court trying to get the judgment set aside and the case reopened.

    If you can't make it on your hearing date, you can usually call the Clerk and ask to reschedule. If they won't do it over the phone (some will, some won't), you can submit a written motion for a continuance. Getting ONE continuance is usually not a problem.

    USUALLY, deferrals are only available BEFORE your hearing actually starts (I've heard of a few exceptions, but not many). I've seen judges say, "Everyone who wants a deferral, line up over here." If you don't get in line, you don't get a deferral. Also, some jurisdictions take it "off the table" as soon as you subpoena witnesses. That's to prevent people from subpoenaing the officer, then if the officer shows up, asking for a deferral. So, if you're thinking about a deferral, it would NOT be a good idea to subpoena the officer, nor an SMD expert.

    As far as the wording of the motions, that will do.

    Maps, photos, etc. are part of a defense strategy that depend MOSTLY on what the officer puts in the "sworn statement". When you receive it, for example, you can take pictures from where the officer "says" he was located, showing that he would not have had a clear view of YOU. But, those kinds of questions should wait till you receive your discovery materials -- don't put the cart before the horse.

    Barry
  • 12-04-2009, 04:03 PM
    mr.jmb
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    Well the infraction does say Bail $ with the amount on it so I just mean to pay the ticket. I could send you the article I read if you would like to see it.
    I just called the court and I'm thinking deferral may be the way to go for me. They want me to write a letter and send in the amount of the ticket plus an administrative fee and take a safe driving course. All together that way would cost half of losing paying the ticket plus 30% insurance increase. Besides the fact that I would need to drive an hour and a half one way to get to the court house from here. And I most likely wont be able to get my three witnesses to appear. In a way I would like to go forward just because I know I did nothing wrong but it seems like a lot of work. I guess that's what they want though huh?
  • 12-04-2009, 05:05 PM
    mr.jmb
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    One other thing.

    So the officer said "you were going 50 when you came around that corner back there". My three witnesses and myself testify that we never exceeded 40. Would testimonies of such be helpful? So the ticket says I was fined for going 30 in a 25 but notes actual speed 50, if i were to prove that I was not going 50 could the prosecutor say that I was going 30 and use that against me?
  • 12-04-2009, 05:20 PM
    blewis
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    I think it would be extremely difficult to "prove" you weren't going 50, or even 30, for that matter. About all you can do is offer "testimony". Whether or not the judge "believes" that testimony is another issue. Your "friends" are usually presumed to be biased toward you. The finder of fact decides credibility.

    Island County is the ONLY county (although there may, indeed, be others) I've heard of that charges an administrative fee PLUS the original fine. Here in Kent, you only pay an admin fee (I think it's still around $150). Then if you receive ANOTHER ticket during your deferral period, they impose the original fine, as well.

    Personally, I'd still ask for a contested hearing and submit a discovery request. There are so many little things, such as not filing the ticket within a week, if the officer doesn't write that the radar was in "proper working condition" at the time, etc. that can get the ticket dismissed. But, you won't know unless you receive the discovery materials.

    You can always change your plea to "mitigation" and send in your request for a deferral AFTER you view the materials.

    But, the decision is ultimately up to you,
    Barry
  • 12-04-2009, 05:35 PM
    mr.jmb
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    OK so I can contest and submit discovery request. Then if I find its not helpful I can request deferral?
  • 12-04-2009, 05:55 PM
    blewis
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    Yep. I've known several people who have done that.

    Barry
  • 12-14-2009, 11:44 AM
    mr.jmb
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    I have received my Court Date.
    Now to put together the Discovery Request.
  • 01-16-2010, 03:04 PM
    mr.jmb
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    So I have received a reply from the Prosecuting office.
    Before I sent the request I talked to the clerk at the Attorney's office. I asked how long it might take to get the discovery info. She said she would request the info from the police and then send it to me as soon as she gets the discovery request. I sent her three copies of the Discovery request and asked that she time stamp all three file one and send two back. My plan was to send the two copies to the city have them stamp them file one and send one back to me. She only sent me one and a note explaining the following. They advised me that they are having a staffing shortage and as a result the Island County Prosecuting Attorney's Office does not participate in the prosecution of contested infractions. They also advised me that they do not have the materials that I seek. I'm not exactly sure what I should do now. Im thinking I should contact the issuing law enforcement agency to request discovery.
  • 01-17-2010, 10:33 PM
    mr.jmb
    Discovery Request
    I have received a reply from the Prosecuting office.
    Before I sent the request I talked to the clerk at the Attorney's office. I asked how long it might take to get the discovery info. She said after receiving my request she would request the info from the police and then send it to me as soon as she gets the info. I sent her three copies of the Discovery request and asked that she time stamp all three file one and send two back. My plan was to send the two copies to the city have them stamp them file one and send one back to me. She only sent me one and a note explaining the following. They advised me that they are having a staffing shortage and as a result the Island County Prosecuting Attorney's Office does not participate in the prosecution of contested infractions. They also advised me that they do not have the materials that I seek. They continue to explain that I may be able to obtain info from the issuing law enforcement agency.

    Does this mean there may not be any discovery info?

    Should I contact the issuing law enforcement agency to request discovery?

    Did I make a mistake in sending the request forms vie normal mail delivery rather than certified mail?

    Can I send discovery request the way I planned, 3 copies to prosecutor, then two copies to city, and then keep the last one? They did send me one copy with stamp.
  • 01-18-2010, 07:14 AM
    blewis
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    Maybe you haven't shot yourself in the foot just yet, but I see you're trying.... Here's what I would do in your situation. First, make a copy of the stamped discovery request. If you can, HAND CARRY both to the court, have the clerk stamp both copies and return one to you. If you can't hand carry them, send the ORIGINAL, STAMPED copy with a cover letter, asking the clerk to please file the enclosed discovery request. SEND IT CRRR! That way you'll have "proof of service".

    When you get to court, bring your copy of the discovery request along with the return receipt from the "filing" copy. When your case is called, move for suppression of the officer's sworn statement pursuant to IRLJ 3.1 (b), which states (in part):

    Quote:

    Quoting IRLJ 3.1 (b)
    If the prosecuting authority, without reasonable excuse or justification, fails to provide the citing officer's sworn statement, the statement shall be suppressed.


    DO NOT produce the letter from the prosecutor. Just state that the prosecutor failed to provide the officer's statement. If the court grants your motion, move for dismissal for lack of evidence.

    Good luck,
    Barry
  • 01-19-2010, 01:15 AM
    mr.jmb
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    I live at least an hour and a half away so CRRR sounds appealing.
    Just to be sure I'm interpreting this correctly.
    When the court files a copy they will send me a receipt and that will be proof that they received it?
    The other copy I have is proof that the prosecuting office received it as well?
    If I were to hand carry them would it matter if I had someone do it for me.
    I have relatives that live in that area and they may be able to deliver them to the court.
  • 01-19-2010, 07:03 AM
    blewis
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    CRRR = Certified Return Receipt Requested. When the post office delivers it, someone at the court MUST sign a receipt. The post office will send that receipt to you. THAT is your proof of service. Whether of not it actually makes it into the file is inconsequential -- you have proof that you "filed" it with the court.

    Yes, someone else can deliver it to the court. Just make sure they take two copies and have them both stamped. The clerk keeps one, and your friend can send the other copy back to you. Your copy will then have stamps from BOTH the prosecutor AND the Court. This is the safest way to show "proof of service".

    Barry
  • 02-11-2010, 12:04 AM
    mr.jmb
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    There are a couple things I have been wondering about.
    After I move for suppression of the officer's sworn statement should I continue to recite IRLJ 3.1?
    What if the court denies that motion?
    If the court grants the motion and I move for dismissal for lack of evidence and the court denies that motion what then? Prejudice?
    Should Motions be filed?
    How obvious is it that I have never done this before?
  • 02-25-2010, 11:15 AM
    mr.jmb
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    Today is my court date.
    I hope all goes well.
  • 02-25-2010, 07:47 PM
    mr.jmb
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    Good news.
    I went to court.
    The judge called roll to see who was attending.
    There were probably about 10 people called and only about 5 or 6 attending.
    She proceeded to say that two people had filed for Discovery.
    I was one of them.
    She asked me if I had filed a copy with the procsecuting attorny.
    I said yes.
    She said "do you have proof"
    I said yes and walked up to show here.
    She said ok I will supress the officers satement and dismiss the case.
    I said thank you and walked out the door.

    Thanks a lot Barry for your help with this.
    If I hadnt filed Discovery I would have had troubles.
  • 02-25-2010, 08:28 PM
    blewis
    Re: What Chance Do I Have of Success
    I only provided a little information, but thanks. However, YOU are the one that had the guts and took the time to jump through the legal "hoops". YOU are the one who deserves the credit.

    So, congratulations! Way to go!

    Barry
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