Speeding Ticket (VC 22350) 58 in 45 (Orange County, California)
My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: Orange County, California
Hi everyone. I seek all your advice and wisdom.
I received a 22350 speeding ticket back in August in Ladera Ranch, CA which is an unincorporated planned community. I am going to court for arraignment next Monday.
I was on O'Neill Drive heading towards Crown Valley Parkway around 9:45AM in the morning. I was the first car in the right lane at a traffic light (at Cecil Pasture) of 2 lane road (4 lanes total with a median in between). There were cars next to me and behind me. When the light turned green, I shot ahead in order to pass the car on the left and change lanes. I went approximately 0.3 miles before coming to a complete stop behind other cars that were waiting at the next traffic light to turn left. The car which was behind me at the last traffic light pulled up behind me and stopped. Moments later, the chp patrol car arrived and had to wait for cars to move forward so that he could get behind me and turn on his lights.
He said he paced me going 58mph in a 45mph zone ("22340 v.c. Exceed 45 MPH Posted Limit")
The conditions at that time were the following:
Visibility was clear - bright
Traffic was light
The roads were dry
It is a four lane road with a large median dividing it in half with trees
There are no driveways
The Chp ticket does not include the officer's details of the conditions at that time.
If I was first off at the traffic light, and there were cars beside me and cars behind me and the distance is 0.3 miles to where I stopped - I am trying to figure out how he managed to pace me in such a short distance if everyone else was going the speed limit. Like I said before, the car behind me at the traffic light pulled up behind me before the police car arrived and he was definitely going slower than I was. I believe that the officer said he paced me at 58mph but I wonder whether that speed was him trying to catch up to me or not.
edit: the speed survey turns out to be on the other side of Crown Valley and not on the side I was on. I am trying to get the right speed survey but I recall the Public Works person saying they did not have a survey on file for the other side (I am hoping this is the case).
On the ticket, the officer placed the location of the violation: N/B O'Neill @ Roanoke, #1LN. Please see this google map of the location and the distance to where I stopped. The distance is 0.2miles. That would mean he would have to 0.1miles to pace from the traffic light with other cars infront of him. Take a look at the cool google photos. Even though google maps says it takes 47 seconds, I can assure that it much quicker even when driving @45mph.
Sorry this is a long post, I was trying to be as detailed as possible.
I would pay the ticket but my wife and I are expecting our first baby in December and we could sure use the funds to go to buying baby stuff instead.
Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance.
Re: Speeding Ticket (Vc 22350) 58 in 45 (Orange County, California)
As simplistic as this may sound, you have three options:
Plead not guilty and argue your case at your hearing
Hire an attorney to represent you
Pay the fine.
It's your word against the officers and honestly, that testimony, one with law enforcement training and experience, is going to prevail over yours.
And congrats on your impending new born; life doesn't offer better than that!
Re: Speeding Ticket (Vc 22350) 58 in 45 (Orange County, California)
Quote:
Quoting
Luther
I have asked for the speed survey from the publics works. The survey they have available was done back in August 1, 2001. My ticket was given on August 13, 2009 - more than 8 years from the time of the survey. The bad news is that at that time, the 85th percentile was 39mph and the recommended speed limit was 35mph vs the current 45mph speed limit. When I spoke with the public works official, she told me that they were in the process of updating the survey but have not finished.
Speed survey is not needed for the prosecution to prove their case when you were paced. The speed trap defense only applies if and when RADAR/LASER/LIDAR was used...
You can do a discovery request for copies of calibration records for his speedometer but you should keeo in mind that the CHP's policy of regularly inspecting and calibrating their vehicle speedometers on a regular basis (every 3 months or so) might mean that the slight error rate that you might find there will not affect your chances of winning this one.
You can also request a copy of his notes via that same discovery request, and while that may possibly give you a hint of where he was before, during and/or after the pace I would have to agree with M'sta in that this will boil down to a matter of your word against his.
Based on what you've posted, I would say that this will be a tough case to beat.
Re: Speeding Ticket (Vc 22350) 58 in 45 (Orange County, California)
Thanks guys for your quick responses.
I guess I will have pay the man and ask for traffic school. Sucks that he also hit me with having my front two windows tinted as well.
Re: Speeding Ticket (Vc 22350) 58 in 45 (Orange County, California)
Quote:
Quoting
Luther
Sucks that he also hit me with having my front two windows tinted as well.
Did he mark that as "Correctable" or not? If it is marked as correctable, then you can get the tint removed, get the correction, submit it to court and only pay the $25 administrative fee instead of the (approx) $175 fine.
Re: Speeding Ticket (Vc 22350) 58 in 45 (Orange County, California)
Quote:
Quoting
That Guy
Speed survey is not needed for the prosecution to prove their case when you were paced. The speed trap defense only applies if and when RADAR/LASER/LIDAR was used...
There is some old case law that talks about speed trap laws not applying when pacing with a speedometer. However, the law doesn't say speed trap laws only apply with RADAR and LIDAR. It says, RADAR or any other electronic device used to measure speed of moving objects. I still contend that with newer police cars, the all have electronic speedometers. That is an electronic device used to measure the speed of moving objects. That means speed trap laws do apply. Lots of people argue on here that I am wrong. I don't think I am... the argument simply hasn't been made yet. Someone needs to be first. If I got a pace ticket, I surely would try the argument. Worst case scenario is... you lose. However, if you don't argue, you are going to lose. So... nothing to lose!
BTW, if the speed trap argument doesn't work, you could always try the 30 questions defense.