DHS Won't Reduce Child Support Despite Children in Another State

My question involves child support in the State of Alabama.

My husband has 2 children from a previous marriage, the reside in AL.

My husband has not seen said children in 7 years. There was a CS order done in 2000 and he paid faithfully on that except for 2 periods where he was forced to move due to layoff. He was bullied by a DHS worker to no go for a modification, they told him it would only increase. He paid child support the entire time and attempted to pay the arrears that were retroactive from when his ex wife filed for CS.

He tried for 3 years to gain contact but AL would not release their location ( He never violated anything, no record or anything )

He eventually decided to move on as the pain of knocking on doors and getting turned away was to painful to bear. One day out of no where we get a phone call from his Ex-wife who is in rehab for drug abuse - 18 month program - she tells him he needs to get the kids, they are with her father - legally - and she doesn't want them there (Her father would not drive them the 300 miles to come see her every weekend).

She has no info on the legal proceedings that have happened with her children over the last 5 months. We contact DHS and get ahold of a caseworker only to find that custody has been passed between a maternal grandfather, maternal grandmother (divorced) and a aunt over 7 times. They have been in foster care a few times, in and out of safe houses.

My husband was passed over each time because is ex wife told the caseworker he was dead - although he was paying child support to the office down the hall. We attempted to gain custody of the children, but since custody had legally been given to someone else it was as if he had to adopt them at the cost of $13k. We also had to get a home inspection and to do that we needed to go through foster care classes in Michigan - at the time we were unmarried, college students who worked full time, they would not enroll us in the program.

The caseworker told us to drop it and that the kids were happy. We were at a loss so to say. He continued to pay his child support. He still had about $1500 in arrears from the original amount that he was paying as well as the current support, the interest was killing him.

18 months ago we got a bill from the state of AL from the Maternal grandmother - she went retroactive on all the time she had the kids, anything over a week she counted - the awarded her $8k in arrears, 3 months later we got the bill for the interest for $7k.

When my husband found out that his ex did not have custody he called AL and asked who to pay CS to, at first they had him keep paying Becky because no one else had filed an order, then they told him to stop paying since the original order had been put on hold.

The maternal grandmother did contact him and ask him to send her cash and she wouldn't take him to court but he decided against that (shady people) and at that time we were going on her word that she had the children, when in all actuality the childrens maternal grandfather had legal custody (He was deceased at that point though, we later found out that his second wife was taking care of them).

Yesterday we called AL DHS and asked about a modification of the CS order. I was laid off last December from my job in Bio-medical research and we are on an very tight budget. The DHS worker told us that Our family here doesn't matter to them, which I get and further more she could care less if we were homeless as long they got their money. She told us that children from the 'north' don't matter. I asked her if that was the state of Alabama's official stance on out of state children and then asked to speak with the director of DHS. She declined to transfer my call, and told me if we went in front of a judge they would most likely raise his CS because they don't like "northern folks". This isn't a joke.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to figure this stuff out. There is no way to get on top of the arrears from the maternal grandmother. We have tried many times to gain custody and they keep telling my husband he would have to adopt them - his own children. The state of AL has also granted custody back to his ex-wife who is a habitual drug user, she has the record to prove it. What are you supposed to do?

It sounds like you need a good AL family lawyer, ASAP. It seems it will cost you more in the long run not to have one.

I'm sorry about what you're going through. Sometimes it feels like this, doesn't it? :wallbang:

I would also call DHS (through their main line, not directly to that crazy case worker), and ask to speak to her supervisor. She was totally out of line. And I'd file a complaint.

The hard part is the 3 attorneys in the area that do family law for that area - won't touch it. They said it can be easily taken care of with a few forms from DHS.....DHS doesn't seem to do a thing, for heavens sake they terminated parental rites from a dead man while charging him child support and accepting it.....

Oh and they also told him to get another job and that they would let him have 35% if his income from that for his current family. They also threatened my income when I was working! Before anyone lectures me on getting a job, I was laid off and in case you didn't know, Michigan has a 12.5 unemployment rate - the highest in the nation.

I understand the laws, I don't agree with them, but Know that they are laws.

But why aren't all children treated equally..... Their birth order should not matter, children are children.

Your income will have nothing to do with this. If you are able to find a job working from home, do so.

You are going to have to play hardball with dhs. If they won't listen to you, I wonder how they'd like to explain their actions on the six o'clock news? Just a thought...

I love the idea of the news. Bad publicity always seems to get soemthing done. Also, have you contacted your state representative? And have you looked into lawyers outside of your area? That might be a little more money, but no where near the bogus adoption fees. And just a thought, when you do get the supervisor on the phone, you might point out to them that termination of a person's parental rights, without a death certificate, is most certainly fraud; I'd threaten them with a lawsuit for incompetence, or something along those lines.

The short version of this seems to be that dad physically abandoned his family but paid support. Mom seriously neglected the kids to the point that the state put them into protective custody and commenced proceedings to terminate her rights. She supposedly told the state that the father was dead. Dad knew that the kids were with grandma, who had contacted him and asked him to contribute to their support, but he refused to send money without a court order. Eventually his parental rights were terminated based upon his abandonment of the children - although he claims that it was because the state thought he was dead - but either way he chose not to try to regain rights, deeming it too expensive. Then the grandmother who had cared for the children sought retroactive support for the three years she cared for them while dad continued to be absent from their lives. Dad didn't challenge her petition, so she was awarded support. Now, eighteen months later, dad wants to escape his child support arrearage on the basis that he has started a new family.

If the media is supposed to sympathize with dad, I hope I got at least one important detail wrong.

You have it kind of backwards - Dad did not abandon his family, mom took off on a whim while dad was in the Navy. Dad was medically discharged, found mom. Mom was pregnant with second child, not dad's (he was deployed) but wanting to make things work, dad decides to take on second child and has never once said a word about the paternity. Just in case you need any clarification - deployed for 6 months thousands of miles away from wife, comes home to a wife who is THREE months pregnant.

Dad and mom choose a new place to 'start over' mom takes an uninsured vehicle out for a spin, crashes into city owned property, she ends up with a massive bill, gets mad, takes off with kids, dad goes AGAIN and gets them, she agrees to come home, he starts paying her bill to the county, she gets angry with not having more money to spend takes off with kids for the third time. He searched for quite a while to no avail, 6 months later he gets a child support order from the state of Alabama, he tries to get her address, AL will not release the information.

He pays child support ongoing for years, attempts to move on and make a life for himself and maybe someday his children as well, tries to better himself by going to college to get a career so he can make more money - zoom ahead Gets a call years later and finds out wife is in drug rehab, finds out he has been passed over numerous times for parental rites.

Gets in contact with social worker who held their case - Child support enforcement refused to give him that information - we called every single case worker in 3 counties until we found someone who 'bent' the rules. We get case note copies, case worker tells us mom claimed he was dead so they went to the next of kin.

Tries to get custody - the cost was an issue, but the larger issues was we needed a Home inspection from the state of Michigan, they will not do that unless you are enrolled the foster care program, we were not able to enroll as two full time students, living together, unmarried working full time jobs. Case worker tells dad to drop it and contact the guardian for possible visitation (not legal, but just a visit maybe) he even gives us the phone number. He says the children are happy. We find out that the daughter who was 7 at the time hadn't even started kindergarten because they didn't have a copy of the Birth Cert. to enroll her, I had one sent with in 72 hours and she was enrolled in school.

maternal grandfather dies, grandmother goes to get custody, again they skip over my husband even though at the time they had NO legal guardian and were wards of the state, they claim it was paperwork error. Still paying child support.

When the court grandmother custody the case from her daughter was stopped, he paid until it stopped. He called DHS to find out who to pay, they said there was no order - no one to pay. Grandmother calls a while later and wants him to send her cash, if he does that maybe she'll let him see the kids when she feels like it. He tells her to go to court and get an order to make it 'on the record' (isn't that the rite thing to do to protect yourself with people who are fairly shady), she calls him a whole slew of names and hangs up. That's when she went retroactive for any amount of time she took care of them. That retroactive period includes a time when her ex-husband had legal custody, he never wanted CS to take care of them so he never went to court, but since he was now dead she was able to claim she had them under her care. The whole thing is a Sham.

We have tried numerous times to gain parental rites with doors closed in our face each time. We have tried just for visitation - generally someone takes of the with kids and moves to a new apartment and we can't gain contact again. We provide the best possible health insurance which includes mental health care - we have begged and pleaded to get the children into some counseling to no avail.

My husband can not take the time off of work or the CS won't get paid and neither will our bills. So what is one to do....

About 5 months ago the mom and new husband came to Michigan and offered to see us, we jumped at the chance, we spoke with a child psych who thought it best that the meeting took place in a structured setting, of course they never showed up.



So explain to me where he is at fault....I'm not being cocky or snippy, I truly am curious on others opinions on this.

I'd also like to add,

I'm sure the women form DHS I spoke with was just an receptionist, I doubt she was a case worker.

I have contacted Senator Sessions from AL, we'll see what happens. I just think it's a fairly wrong to speak to anyone that way. I know they won't change the laws for one family, I may not make a difference.

BUT - Children are children, if this was the other way around, I'd feel the same way, it should not matter chronologically who was born first - people are are people we are equal and that goes triple for children who have no say in the laws of adults and are dependent on their guardians.

I'd also like to add,

I'm sure the women form DHS I spoke with was just an receptionist, I doubt she was a case worker.

I have contacted Senator Sessions from AL, we'll see what happens. I just think it's a fairly wrong to speak to anyone that way. I know they won't change the laws for one family, I may not make a difference.

BUT - Children are children, if this was the other way around, I'd feel the same way, it should not matter chronologically who was born first - people are are people we are equal and that goes triple for children who have no say in the laws of adults and are dependent on their guardians.

Honey, you and your husband just keep fighting.

I know you don't know those children, and right now they may mean little to you (although I don't get that from what you're saying) but you just do what's best.

Btw, I think you have a wonderful husband. I'm sure any children he has (whether biologically his or not) are wonderful as well.

Thank you for your kind words - Sadly my husband has not seen these children since the baby was 6 months old and the daughter 1-2. They don't even know him, this is why we were pulling for counseling.

Children are children and as far as I am concerned, they are a part of the man I love so much so I would love them just the same. I hope we get the chance someday.

I would love to throttle the people in AL - It seems so backwards to me. They put those children WILLINGLY with a documented habitual drug user and not a stable family with a stay at home mom!

I know Mr. Knowital made a comment along the lines of, 'he chose not to seek gaining his rites deeming it to expensive....' But honestly, where are you supposed to get that kind of money if you just don't have it.

I feel like they are treating him like a dead beat dad - he's not. He pays his support, like I said the only time he didn't is when he was forced to move halfway across the country because he was laid off, again, if you don't have the money you don't have it. But he is paying the arrears, it was only a few months, but the 12% compounded interest is kicking our butt. I also know that paying CS is not what defines you as either a good or bad father - but you can only do as much as your allowed.

Currently, to date. The mom will not let him even have any contact what so ever, we would never jump into visitation due to the possible emotional shock for the kids, but we even tried to send christmas gifts, birthday gifts, back to school items, they come returned and then we get a phone call along the lines of "FU***** if you want to send stuff send me cash......"

it's a mess.

If she is not being reasonable, or is violating court orders, then this is a fight that he must pursue, not you. He needs to talk to an attorney to discuss his options and take the actions to call the Senator and caseworker. Your involvement could be adding fuel to the fire. Be supportive of his actions, but he has to be the one to take charge of this.

She isn't violating anything - the court in Al terminated his parental rites because she told them he was dead. So she can do what ever she wants regarding visitation.

The case worker in michigan (our home state) thought it was fine to have me be involved because if we ever want a chance in hell to get into the foster care program to get the home inspection, we have to show that I am physically and emotionally a part of this fight for the children.

I called the senator because the women from DHS spoke with me. When I called I was using a hypothetical situation on what the process would be. My husband is working non stop to make ends meet, the least I could do was find out the process so he could pursue it.

There isn't an attorney in the area of AL that will even take this on, we're saving to hire someone in Montgomery, but between the CS and our family here, we don't have the retainer.

I still say that its his fight.

It is his fight and he fights it.

I don't see anything wrong with you doing recon for your husband while he's working. You keep right on finding out info. A united front is always the best offense!

But I don't see why the AL CS can't just undo their error? They were the ones who incorrectly terminated his parental rights, they should be the ones to fix this mess. That's why I'm advocating for your senator to get involved. But, if it comes down to requiring you to become foster parents to your own children, then I'd definetely pursue a civil case against the AL CS and require them to pay the foster care/adoption fees, plus extraneous child support (anything and everything that was incurred following the first time he was passed over for custody), and legal fees, of course.

Also, if you go that route, you might be able to retain a Montgomery lawyer on a contingency. Have you spoken to any attorneys about that option?

Thank you for your words of encouragement!

The case worker here feels that united front effort is what is going to look best if we want a chance of helping these kids.

We wanted them to undo their error, but at the time they were content with the children being where they were and didn't see a need to move them. I'm fairly sure that AL operates on it's own, very strange set of rules. That's just me being frustrated.