Police on Private Property

My question involves police conduct in the State of: Arkansas

The other night my friend had a party at this house. I was standing outside (within 5 feet) the front door which directly faced the street talking to a friend. He had a beer in his hands as he was talking (he is 21) and neither of us were being over loud. We saw three police officers walking down the street and when they saw us they were directly in front of the house. The three of them then turned and came up to us.

Note: There was a music. It was loud enough to be heard from outside.

They immediately questioned my friend if he was 21 and when he procured his ID they then demanded to see the owner of the house. He opened the door and quickly went inside, but when he tried to close the door one of the officers placed her foot in the door and then threw it open. She did not then enter the house, but stood right on the doorstep. When my friend came outside to talk to her, he asked if he could shut the door and the officer said no because then she would be unable to see what is going on inside the house.

The rest of the story is superfluous, but they just told him to make sure everyone at the party was 21 and to be respectful of his neighbors. This coming after one of the officers admitted no noise violation had occurred because the music could not be heard outside of 100ft.

My friend has had problems with police officers walking around his house before, with the last time two other people sitting in the back yard talking (not visible from the street). They were startled when police officers emerged from the darkness.

Sorry for the length, questions: 1. I realize I am ignorant of the laws but do Police need some type of probable cause to walk around his house, or come up to the door, or demand to speak to the owner? (I can understand if the beer or music was PC enough). 2. Can they actually require the door to stay open the entire time? I understand the logic behind it, but found it odd.

Quote:

---

Quoting Majblitz

---

I realize I am ignorant of the laws but do Police need some type of probable cause to walk around his house, or come up to the door, or demand to speak to the owner?

---

Nope. If John Q. Citizen can walk up to the door, so can the cops. And they can ask to speak to anyone they want. In this case, IK suspct they were investigating the noise and the possibility that minors might be drinking.

Quote:

---

Can they actually require the door to stay open the entire time? I understand the logic behind it, but found it odd.

---

Maybe. It depends on why. I might want it open so that I can see i a threat is developing ... whether I could make an arrest for someone closing it would depend on the totality of the circumstances.

- Carl

Ok. That makes sense and it was along the lines of what I was thinking. A few follow ups though. Are there any guidelines for investigating noise? The noise level was admitted by one of them as not having broken any regulations, but they it was loud enough that they thought it could disturb the neighbors.

As far as investigating minors drinking, so can they just go up to any house and ask for the the ids of everyone who is drinking inside the premises? If they weren't investigating the noise, then surely one male with a beer in his hand who is 21 isn't enough to search everyone inside the house... but I could be wrong.

The Police officer merely said the door had to stay open so she could see inside. I also understand their need to be careful and mindful of their surroundings, how are they to know if they cannot see? Various things I have looked at have mentioned stepping outside (shutting the door behind you) and talking to police. None of them are citing any laws, but it doesn't sit right with me unless they have a reason for suspecting trouble from within.

I just want to make it clear that I am not trying to find out where these officers messed up and go screaming about misuse of power. In that situation, I was so confused about what they could and couldn't do under law. I am merely attempting to understand.

Quote:

---

Quoting Majblitz

---

Are there any guidelines for investigating noise?

---

Well, any such investigation would be subject to the law and to agency policy. In general, no, there is not some pre-formatted policy or law that says an officer must follow particular steps when investigating a noice complaint.

Quote:

---

The noise level was admitted by one of them as not having broken any regulations, but they it was loud enough that they thought it could disturb the neighbors.

---

The latter is generally sufficient under the law.

Plus, the police can walk to the door and talk to anyone they want. if John Q. Public can do it, so can the cops.

Quote:

---

As far as investigating minors drinking, so can they just go up to any house and ask for the the ids of everyone who is drinking inside the premises?

---

They can ASK, but they might not be able to compel ID. It depends on the circumstances and whether any crime can be articulated.

Quote:

---

The Police officer merely said the door had to stay open so she could see inside. I also understand their need to be careful and mindful of their surroundings, how are they to know if they cannot see?

---

I like to see what's going on inside as well. But, unless I can articulate an officer safety reason, I would probably lose any evidence I observed if I forced someone to keep the door open against their will. Just to be able to see inside is, by itself, not likely to be legal. Absent a safety issue, unless I have the lawful authority to enter or search, I doubt I can legally force the owner to keep the door open.


- Carl

Quote:

---

The Police officer merely said the door had to stay open so she could see inside. I also understand their need to be careful and mindful of their surroundings, how are they to know if they cannot see?

---

Quote:

---

I like to see what's going on inside as well. But, unless I can articulate an officer safety reason, I would probably lose any evidence I observed if I forced someone to keep the door open against their will. Just to be able to see inside is, by itself, not likely to be legal. Absent a safety issue, unless I have the lawful authority to enter or search, I doubt I can legally force the owner to keep the door open.


- Carl

---

Carl, I was reading a case sometime ago, and darn I did not bookmark it, but the facts were very similar.

It was a loud music case I think also. The officer went to the door, and the person inside just cracked it open and would not let him in, when the officer tried to open it just a little the man pushed it back, and I think the officer put his foot in. The reasoning was he said he was concerned he had a weapon behind the door.

After a few seconds of a tussle the officer burst in and there was contraband in plain view, and he was charged with it.

IF I remember right, the court permitted it's admission.

Sounds like the court agreed with the officer safety exception. I, too, do not like people concealed behind the door for just that reason.

- Carl

Thanks Carl! I have the answers I came for. After scouring the internet for hours trying to figure it out, you helped me. Thanks!

what if a neighbor hears a scream. but its on TV and call the police? can they ask to come in and look around? sometimes you have the volume set to normal levels but the studio has enhanced the volume and effect of the scream scene and with todays TVs and surround sounds..it can be seemingly realistic.
then again if youre watching a movie are you legally required to answer the knock at your door?

It would take more than a single scream to get the police out there. And you would have to have one nosy and pretty stupid neighbor. You don't have to let the police into your house on such a flimsy pretense. What they might do then though is debatable.

Down south recently there was the boy that was kidnapped by the pizza guy and then another boy. The first boy was raped and tortured repeatedly, crying and screaming bloody murder. This was in a cheap apartment building. The neighbors heard it all and NOBODY called the police.

Quote:

---

Quoting THEAMAZINGCHAN

---

what if a neighbor hears a scream. but its on TV and call the police? can they ask to come in and look around?

---

If they have sufficient probable cause to articulate a public safety exception to the warrant rule or consent, then, yes.

After all, how are the police to know the scream was from a television until after they look in to it.

Quote:

---

then again if youre watching a movie are you legally required to answer the knock at your door?

---

No. But, if a neighbor hears a scream, calls the police,the police arrive and hear a loud TV with no answer at the door, they may very well force entry.

- Carl