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Acknowledgement of a traffic citation

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  • 03-27-2006, 06:28 AM
    TJ
    Acknowledgement of a traffic citation
    I recieved a ticket and later realized I had not signed the acknowledgement before the officer handed it to me. Is this ticket still valid?
  • 03-27-2006, 04:03 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: acknowledgement of citation
    Quote:

    Quoting TJ
    I recieved a ticket and later realized I had not signed the acknowledgement before the officer handed it to me. Is this ticket still valid?

    Yes.

    The only thing the lack of a signature does is make it tough to charge you with failing to appear in court. However, I wouldn't recommend pushing that issue.

    - Carl
  • 04-12-2006, 06:19 PM
    Keydo
    In California, it looks like you do need a signature because VC 40504(a) says

    The officer shall deliver one copy of the notice to appear to the arrested person and the arrested person in order to secure release must give his or her written promise to appear in court ...

    If you don't have a signature, how did the arrested person secure their own release? If the person was present and did not secure their release by giving their written promise to appear, why were they not arrested and brought to jail? Was the arrested person even present?

    These are the kinds of questions I would ask if I was presented with a notice to appear, but wasn't signed by me.





    VC 40504(a)
    The officer shall deliver one copy of the notice to appear to the arrested person and the arrested person in order to secure release must give his or her written promise to appear in court or before a person authorized to receive a deposit of bail by signing two copies of the notice which shall be retained by the officer, and the officer may require the arrested person, if this person has no satisfactory identification, to place a right thumbprint, or a left thumbprint or fingerprint if the person has a missing or disfigured right thumb, on the notice to appear. Thereupon, the arresting officer shall forthwith release the person arrested from custody. Except for law enforcement purposes relating to the identity of the arrestee, no person or entity may sell, give away, allow the distribution of, include in a database, or create a database with, this print.
  • 04-12-2006, 06:36 PM
    cdwjava
    The failure of the officer (in CA) to sign the citation woul dnot prevent the matter from going forward. What it woul ddo would be to effectively prevent the person cited from being charged for failing to appear in court. or, rather, it would be a defense in an allegation for a failure to appear.

    - Carl
  • 04-13-2006, 03:41 AM
    Keydo
    VC 40604 states you cannot charge a person for failure to appear if they haven't signed a notice to appear, so it's already written in the vehicle.

    Failure of the officer to sign? I thought we were talking about failure of the arrested person to sign the citation.

    The officer failed to obtain a signature from the arrested person per VC 40504(a).

    If the officer does not really need the signature of the arrested person in question, what's to prevent officer from writing up tickets on people without their knowledge, keeping the original and throwing away the copy?

    There's nothing to prevent the above from actually happening (that I can think of) and it sounds like a possible real scenario.

    I can't find anything in the penal code or vehicle code that says a signature is not required in a notice to appear.
  • 04-13-2006, 05:47 AM
    cdwjava
    There's nothing in the law that prevents us from mailing a citation to people, either. We regularly do that after traffic collision investigations, too.

    Without their signature, you cannot hold the person accountable for a failure to appear in court. But - like a summons from the DA - failure to respond does not make the matter go away ... we could always seek an arrest warrant on the matter instead.

    - Carl
  • 04-13-2006, 06:24 AM
    Keydo
    Then it is possible that an officer can look up the registered owner of a vehicle and obtain the necessary information on an individual, write up a ticket on said individual, submit their original and throw away the carbon copy and file it without the owner's knowledge. Regardless of whether the individual was actually present or not.

    I'm not saying this happens, but if a signature is not needed, than it is possible that an officer can just write up a ticket on anyone, whether they are really there or not.

    If that's the case, I better make sure I treat my brother-in-law extra nice this upcoming Christmas.
  • 04-13-2006, 06:33 AM
    cdwjava
    Quote:

    Quoting Keydo
    Then it is possible that an officer can look up the registered owner of a vehicle and obtain the necessary information on an individual, write up a ticket on said individual, submit their original and throw away the carbon copy and file it without the owner's knowledge. Regardless of whether the individual was actually present or not.

    I'm not saying this happens, but if a signature is not needed, than it is possible that an officer can just write up a ticket on anyone, whether they are really there or not.

    If that's the case, I better make sure I treat my brother-in-law extra nice this upcoming Christmas.

    ANYTHING is possible. I - or even you - can make a report to the police about your brother-in-law speeding or commiting any manner of crime. Ultimately it still has to go to court and a foundation has to be laid.

    A signature is not needed for a filing in criminal court - only for a release on one's own recognizance in lieu of appearing before a magistrate. I don't need your signature to file a complaint with the DA for ANY offense - including traffic. Would you prefer a citation in the mail giving you a date and a time to appear? Or, an arrest warrant? We don't HAVE to go with the mailed, un-signed citation - or with a summons.

    - Carl
  • 04-13-2006, 07:59 AM
    Keydo
    Looks like I better stop teasing my younger brother-in-law (who's an officer in SoCal.

    cdwjava, I appreciate the healthy discussion.

    You're right though, we both can interpret the same law in two different ways, it really boils down to the court and who lays the better foundation.
  • 04-13-2006, 08:26 AM
    cdwjava
    Quote:

    Quoting Keydo
    Looks like I better stop teasing my younger brother-in-law (who's an officer in SoCal.

    I recently fled the urban sprawl for the northern heartland ... well, it's more like swampland right now.

    Quote:

    cdwjava, I appreciate the healthy discussion.
    Thank you. Ditto.

    Quote:

    You're right though, we both can interpret the same law in two different ways, it really boils down to the court and who lays the better foundation.
    And even the courts can see the same arguments differently. That is one reason why even in the same state no one answer can be THE answer for an individual, and why it is important for a person to get a feel for their local court procedure and practice ... a local attorney knows what flies and what doesn't. Too often people try to do things themselves and muck it up. I see Junior Clarence Darrows tick off judges all the time ... some people learn just enough to get themselves in trouble.

    There's a reason law school takes several years to complete! Sadly, we have made it less about common sense and more about the procedure.

    - Carl
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