Speeding in a School Zone
My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: Illinois
My son got a ticket for 'speeding in a school zone'. Ticket was not issued at that time as officer "had no tickets in his car". son was told to stop by the police dept and pick it up later that afternoon when son got out of school.
#1.The ticket does not say what speed my son was supposedly going.
#2. School zone is active when kids are presnt. Officer put time of infraction down as 8:19 am, son was at gas stattion across from school at 8:13am ( he has receipt) school starts at 8:15am.
From where my son pulled out of gas station to where the end of 20 MPH school zone is 0.1 miles..my son has a cluncker 4 cyl stick shift and could not have gotten up to 20 MPH in that short of distance. He wants to fight the tix, I am wondering if the fact that the office failed to write down the alleged speed my son was 'clocked at" & the fact that school was already in session. Officer was just hanging out in the school parking lot talking to some people when my son drove by, could i point out these FACTS and get the ticket dismissed???
Please any advise will be appreciated:confused:
Re: Speeding Tix Info and
You seriously think the state is trying to control speed past schools while kids are sitting at their desks, and not when they're traveling to and from school? If the ticket was issued under ILCS 5/11-605, the school day is defined as 7AM - 4PM.
I can't even count the number of times I've heard speeders argue, "No way my car could go that fast." Yet they somehow do.
You can try speaking for your son in court. The judge may not allow it.
The only thing you need to be doing to get a ticket under ILCS 5/11-605 is to be exceeding the 20MPH speed limit. Your exact speed doesn't matter to that charge.
Re: Speeding in School Zone.
if there was no speed marked or noted on the ticket, ask the judge to dismiss as there was no violation of state law committed.....this should be a no brainer
Re: Speeding in School Zone.
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Quoting
colemac65
if there was no speed marked or noted on the ticket, ask the judge to dismiss as there was no violation of state law committed.....this should be a no brainer
Really? I don't see it that way. The law (625 ILCS 5/11-605) simply states:
Quote:
Quoting 625 ILCS 5/11-605
On a school day when school children are present and so close thereto that a potential hazard exists because of the close proximity of the motorized traffic, no person shall drive a motor vehicle at a speed in excess of 20 miles per hour while passing a school zone or while traveling on a roadway on public school property or upon any public thoroughfare where children pass going to and from school.
For the purpose of this Section a school day shall begin at seven ante meridian and shall conclude at four post meridian.
From that, I have to agree with Mr. KIA. There are, basically, three major elements:
1) Was it a school day and between 7 am and 4 pm?
2) Were there children present?
3) Were you going over 20 MPH?
I don't see how you can say this is a "no brainer". If the officer testifies that there were children present AND that you (or your son in this case) were exceeding 20 MPH, how is this NOT a violation of state law? And, just because the officer didn't
Barry
Re: Speeding in a School Zone
Thank you for the responces..i have looked up the laws here in illinois and yes it says the school days is considered 7am-4pm. However the sign says school days when children are present..the school session had already started as the officer marked on the tix as being given at 8:19am. ( In fact he didnt write the ticket until after 1:30pm that day as he had no tickets in the squad car in the morning) I drive that stretch of road daily as it is the main road out of town. When you exit the gas stattion that is across from the school, there is NO 20MPH school sign..it is before you get to the gas station..so when my son pulled out of the station the only sign in front of him was a 55MPH sign that is across the field next to the school..
I have read numerous articles on the internet about fighting the ticket based on the calibration of the radar and the officer having to provide proof etc..and that if he doesnt have the calibrations etc of the radar used the case can be dismissed..does anyone know about that?
Also, I was behind a big farm tractor yesterday traveling exactly the same direction as my son was driving..it was 3:15pm. and i was clocking 25MPH in that school zone and the tractor in front of me was probably going a bit faster..as everyone else that drives thru that zone..after 2:05pm when kids are out of school, NO ONE goes 20MPH thru there..
Just dont know to fight it based on these facts or just pay the damn fine and try to plea for no license suspensions.
Re: Speeding in a School Zone
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Quoting
luly727
However the sign says school days when children are present..
Children ARE usually present on schoold days, most of them are. (See previous responses)
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Quoting
luly727
the school session had already started as the officer marked on the tix as being given at 8:19am.
but, 8:19am falls somewhere between 7:00am and 4:00pm, otherwise referred to as "school hours" or "hours when childeren are present". (See previous responses)
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Quoting
luly727
In fact he didnt write the ticket until after 1:30pm that day as he had no tickets in the squad car in the morning)
The time of the violation is what matters not the time the ticket was written. At any rate, 1:30pm is still between 7:00am and 4:00pm... (See previous responses)
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Quoting
luly727
When you exit the gas stattion that is across from the school, there is NO 20MPH school sign..it is before you get to the gas station..so when my son pulled out of the station the only sign in front of him was a 55MPH sign that is across the field next to the school.
First, they are not required to post a speed limit sign at each and every driveway. Think of all the money that would cost. Second of all, you mean to tell me that your son is enrolled in that school, he drives there every day, he is a licensed driver, and yet he didn't know that he was driving in a school zone??? … He though it was a 55mph zone?
Quote:
Quoting
luly727
I have read numerous articles on the internet about fighting the ticket based on the calibration of the radar and the officer having to provide proof etc..and that if he doesnt have the calibrations etc of the radar used the case can be dismissed..does anyone know about that?
Yes, you can challenge Radar accuracy. You can request calibration certificates via “discovery”. Not sure what the process entails in Illinois but a defendant is within his/her rights to request such documents as they prepare a defense.
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Quoting
luly727
Also, I was behind a big farm tractor yesterday traveling exactly the same direction as my son was driving..it was 3:15pm. and i was clocking 25MPH in that school zone and the tractor in front of me was probably going a bit faster..as everyone else that drives thru that zone..after 2:05pm when kids are out of school, NO ONE goes 20MPH thru there.
“Other people speed through there” will not get your son out from under this one. I promise you that!
Re: Speeding in a School Zone
UPDATE, went to court, state atty said that he would agree to court superviision and then said in court, he couldnt do that due tothe illinois statutes and sons age. BUT NOW the copy of the tix that the state attorney has ( I HAVE THE ORIGINAL) has been altered and the office i assume wrote a speed on it..what do I do now??? I would think they can not just go in and write something on the ticket almost 2 1/2 months after it was issued..any suggestions. MY son pleaded NOT GUILTY, trial set for Dec 21
Re: Speeding in a School Zone
So are you saying that the chief of police (whom you stated was the officer who cited your son), has altered the ticket in an attempt to correct an alleged mistake that you think he made even though the statute your son was cited with does not require the citing officer to write in a speed (only required to state that your son was driving in excess of the posted limit)?
Or are you saying that the state attorney added that notation in an attempt to aid himself in getting a conviction even though the statute does not require such a statement?
If you were a chief of police or a state attorney, would you subject yourself to the possible scrutiny as well as risk your job by altering a piece of evidence simply because you want to get a conviction for a SIMPLE speeding violation?
With that being said (and this will be my last rhetorical question), is it possible that the speed that was added in on the officer's copy was a personal note that he wrote on there for his own benefit?
Lastly, if you are so convinced that the “speed” your son was traveling is an important element that should have been included on the original citation, this (court hearing/arraignment) would have been the perfect opportunity for you to make a motion to dismiss before the court on the grounds that the citation is “defective”... You will still have the opportunity to make such a motion on the day of the trial... But if I were you, I would go in with some sort of back up plan.... Just in case your "motion to dismiss" is denied by the court.
Re: Speeding in a School Zone
The EX chief of police and the city administrator of town were my son was gven the ticket are under investigation now, for abuse of power, 'fixing a tix' for a friend and other violations. this is a small town where everyone knows yr business. Now with that being said, YES they did chnage the ticket. I have the original and now the copy that they have has a speed listed on there. Hmm after i bought it to the attention of the state atty when I was trying to get the tix dismissed or lower to a lesser charge. Now after that, wow a speed is noted on his copy?? Yeah it may sound crazy but it is fact & truth...
And yes my son will ask for a motion to dismiss..YES i do think that the speed is important...he wasnt going 40 as now written on the copy tix..
I thank you for yr responce and like I said, this place is soooo corrupt it isnt funny...so at this point i believe anything that I see clearly in front of me! They are trying to cover their ass and knew he messed up by not writing the alleged speed on the tix and are now adding it in there..hmmm i dont think that is right, after 3 months he can recall EXACTLY how fast he "supposedly radar'd him" I think NOT!!!
Re: Speeding in a School Zone
You're not the first one to raise the "corruption" argument as a way to justify breaking the law. But I digress. Your son will have his day in court and the trier of fact (the judge and/or jury (in an IL case)) will determine his guilt or innocence.
If this was my teenage son, and if he'd gotten caught for allegedly driving at twice the speed limit, you can bet that "the system is corrupt" is NOT the primary lesson I'd want him to learn. He's your son though...
Please make sure you update us with how this all turns out.