My question involves criminal law for the state of: Michigan
My 15 year old daughter was caught shoplifting at Walmart. We were told that we would be contacted by the juvenile court about a court date within 2 weeks. She took $35 worth of merchandise. Is this a criminal or civil charge? She did not receive any documention from Walmart the day of the incident. Should we have received a ticket or citation of some kind? I was contacted 11 days after the incident by a law firm that said they represented Walmart. They wanted me to supply them with a cc# to pay a $200 civil fee imposed by Walmart. I find it unusual for a law firm to call and ask for a $200 payment with a credit card. Is this common practice? If I pay this, does my daughter have to go to court TOO. Seems like she is receiving two penalties for the same offense. The lady I spoke to from the law firm thought the fee is all that would be required, unless, Walmart also files criminal charges. Any advice?
Juvenile Shoplifter
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09-13-2009, 07:35 PMdisappointed momJuvenile Shoplifter
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09-14-2009, 03:07 AMtc498Re: Juvenile Shoplifter
Walmart is allowe do to ask for a civil demand it's a fee used to recover shoplifting loses,thats a civil issue.If the court pick up the case then that would be a crimanl charge. See if any local lawyer offer a free consulation.
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09-14-2009, 10:28 AMAntigoneRe: Juvenile ShoplifterQuote:
Quoting disappointed mom
She can be penalized twice for this. One would be a civil penalty, and the other is the criminal penalty. This is a common practice and the penalty should be paid.
I told my daughters that if they ever shoplifted that THEY would have to pay for all their fines. I also told them that if I ever got a phone call about them being in custody that I would tell the officer that they can make themselves at home. I'd be in aboslutely no hurry to go pick them up. -
09-19-2009, 06:27 PMdisappointed momRe: Juvenile Shoplifter
Rec'd a letter from Bennett Law charging $200. It says in the statute that they sent that they were allowed to chg. 10x the amout of the merchandise deemed unable to resell. The only thing removed from the package was the mascara. Which makes the rest resaleable. I am pretty sure the mascara did not cost $20, since the 4 items make-up items cost $35. My daughter said it was about $5. Have also read that I was suppose to be present before anything was signed since she is a minor. Also told that interogation was to take place with the parent present because she is a minor. Letter rec'd didn't even spell her name right. I have been advised by the officer who was present to disregard collection atempts from Bennett Law until her court appearance. It may be thrown out because of first time offense and proof of her character. Also, the officer I contacted, one week after the fact said the young man who caught my daughter was not suppose to contact me (he was new). Walmart was suppose to contact the police and they contact the parents and arrange for pick up. The officer did not do ANYTHING but observe once he arrived at Walmart. That is where I picked her up. Advice?
AND...Does juvenile court contact the school my daughter attends? -
09-19-2009, 06:48 PMcyjeffRe: Juvenile ShoplifterThe value of the product only comes into play if the multiplicative value is above a basement value... usually $200 or $250.Quote:
Quoting disappointed mom
That is not correct.Quote:
Have also read that I was suppose to be present before anything was signed since she is a minor.
That is also not correct.Quote:
Also told that interogation was to take place with the parent present because she is a minor.
That would be a stupid move.Quote:
Letter rec'd didn't even spell her name right. I have been advised by the officer who was present to disregard collection atempts from Bennett Law until her court appearance.
If you don't pay the civil demand, the company will take you to court and since your daughter was kind enough to admit to her guilt in writing, she will lose.
Then you will pay the fine, court costs and legal fees which can easily triple the amount.
Judges are not usually in the habit of looking at evidence of a crime and saying, "girls will be girls".Quote:
It may be thrown out because of first time offense and proof of her character.
Further, I can assure you that EVERYONE in front of the judge is actually a wonderful young person that made a single mistake. It is a common defense.... and never works.
That is a business procedure within Walmart as to whom calls whom. Any citizen can call the police when they witness a crime.Quote:
Also, the officer I contacted, one week after the fact said the young man who caught my daughter was not suppose to contact me (he was new).
She needs an attorney.....Quote:
Walmart was suppose to contact the police and they contact the parents and arrange for pick up. The officer did not do ANYTHING but observe once he arrived at Walmart. That is where I picked her up. Advice?
It is possible that the school will have a copy of her record... but I don't know the school district your daughter attends.Quote:
AND...Does juvenile court contact the school my daughter attends?
One more point... a police officer is not a lawyer.
As evidenced by some of his/her answers, he has actually led you down a path that I would not recommend.
I would, instead, retain and listen to legal counsel. -
09-20-2009, 04:14 AMniuRe: Juvenile Shoplifter
The Police Officer isn't a lawyer, don't listen to him. If you pay the civil demand there have been cases where the other party is less likely to press criminal charges or send a witness to you daughter's trial in which case, it'll be dismissed.
I'm not sayingthat is the case...I'm just citing an example of a positive outcome if you do pay the civil demand.
also +1 to antigone about being charged twice. This is both a civil and criminal offense.
Good luck! =) your daughter will hopefully be fine. -
09-21-2009, 02:31 AMdisappointed momRe: Juvenile Shoplifter
Thank you for your good wishes. I will attempt to attain some free legal advice prior to court appt. Also, I will be contacting Bennett Law to inquire about the $200 charge versus 10x the amount of the item deemed not saleable.
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11-08-2009, 01:18 PMdisappointed momRe: Juvenile Shoplifter
This is in response to the last private message that I sent you. UPDATE! 1. My daughter DID NOT need a lawyer. 2. We DID NOT go in front of the judge. 3. She did not receive a fine or court costs of any kind. 4. The referee said to my daughter, "You are a good kid!" 5. She has to write an apology to Walmart. 6. She has to write an 8 page paper on the affects of retail fraud. 7. 8 hours of community service ( I am sure you were hoping for jail time). 8. Attend 4 Peer Plus classes.
The people at the courthouse were so nice. Since she is a very SUCCESSFUL and busy athlete, they are working around all of her practice and game schedules so she won't have to miss anything. They assured me that since the charges were deferred that NO ONE will ever have access to any court records. And, I am not going to pay Bennett Law anymore $. I have only sent them $10 since the incident in Sept. The referree informed me that he would be contacting Walmart because double jeopardy is against the law. In case you do not know what that means, no one can be charged twice for the same crime!
If you truly are a man of your word, my charity of choice would be the Side-out Foundation that raises money for breast cancer research. You can find it in the internet.
Have a great day and please think twice before offering your expert advice.
This post is for CYJEFF.
niu,Quote:
Quoting niu
As you can see from my previous post to CYJEFF, everything turned out okay. I truly believe she has learned her lesson and I am thankful that she wasn't older where the consequences could have been much worse.
Thank you again. You good luck wishes helped. -
11-09-2009, 05:52 AMcyjeffRe: Juvenile Shoplifter
I can honestly say that I don't remember you PM'ing me... it happens a lot. I am guessing that you were trying to tell me, again, how your daughter is so wonderful that the law shouldn't apply to her.
I usually just delete those.
Okay. I hope that the next time she needs medical help you decide to go to a doctor.... sometimes, professionals KNOW stuff.Quote:
Quoting disappointed mom
Then who sentenced her? If you are saying that she plead down instead, I am not sure that means you won... it just means that she plead guilty to avoid going to court.Quote:
2. We DID NOT go in front of the judge.
Look at the bottom of the order, though... except in a very few jurisdictions (and I am not going to research whether or not yours is one), a judge still has to sign off on the plea.
This ain't law and order... not everyone that pleads guilty gets to stand in front of a judge....you agree, the DA agrees and the judge signs off on it....or the magistrate.
Just a sentence.Quote:
3. She did not receive a fine or court costs of any kind.
Um, good?Quote:
4. The referee said to my daughter, "You are a good kid!"
Walmart will so appreciate that. They love it when thieves write to them about how sorry they are about stealing.Quote:
5. She has to write an apology to Walmart.
Okay.Quote:
6. She has to write an 8 page paper on the affects of retail fraud.
Not at all. community service it typical.Quote:
7. 8 hours of community service ( I am sure you were hoping for jail time).
Okay... so she was sentenced to both community service and theft avoidance classes. I don't see where she was found innocent.Quote:
8. Attend 4 Peer Plus classes.
Oh goody... another kid who has been told that breaking the law is such an insignificant thing that the REALLY important stuff in their lives, like sports, is secondary.Quote:
The people at the courthouse were so nice. Since she is a very SUCCESSFUL and busy athlete, they are working around all of her practice and game schedules so she won't have to miss anything.
That is actually incorrect. Some people WILL have access to the records, but the list is very short.Quote:
They assured me that since the charges were deferred that NO ONE will ever have access to any court records.
Of course I know what double jeopardy is.... but you don't. It is not only usual and customary to have both criminal and civil charges, but it happens regularly. This happens DAILY all over the country and has been supported in every single court in the land.Quote:
The referree informed me that he would be contacting Walmart because double jeopardy is against the law. In case you do not know what that means, no one can be charged twice for the same crime!
Think of it this way... you get into a car accident. You get a ticket. Will your insurance company also have to pay for the repairs to the other person's car? Of course. The fact that a criminal (which your daughter now is) is convicted (which your daughter was) does not invalidate the civil damages that she owes the company she stole from. Feel free to fight it, you lose.
I wasn't wrong. You child was convicted. She will pay a fine. She will do community service and court ordered counseling.Quote:
If you truly are a man of your word, my charity of choice would be the Side-out Foundation that raises money for breast cancer research. You can find it in the internet.
You may make your check payable to the Humane Society. -
11-09-2009, 07:08 AMPandorasBoxRe: Juvenile Shoplifter
I hope she truly has learned her lesson. Personally, I'd have her pushing carts at Meijer to pay the Civil Demand (Which still should be paid in full); and the cost of her classes. I'd have also taken away privileges and gave her more chores. I also would not let her walk around a store unattended for a while.
But that's just me.