Accused of shoplifting at Bloomingdale's

I was accused of shoplifting at Bloomingdale's. I was on the phone and walked out ofthe store to get a better wireless signal. I had a shirt in my hands...and unfortunately it didnt have a price tag on it. I was talking on the phone outside the store and two guys approached me and took to me to a room and said I am being charged for shoplifting. They took my picture and also called the police.

The police issued me a citation/summons notice for a court date. The LP was telling me that they have all the videos of from when I picked up the merchandise and till I walked out ofthe store and so I just please guilty.

How do I approach the criminal attorney and do u think the attorney can help me .....if I plead not guilty (the store has videos of me walking out) ....If I plead guilty..this is going to be on my records.....and I plead not guilty ......will this still be onmy records..

Pleading not guilty/No contest ....will this minimize the sentence on me (fine/probation)???

Please help...Thank you

Some one please help...if you have any thoughts!!

Are you an adult? Where did it happen? How much was the shirt? Was it your first offense?

Generally speaking, there are two options:

1. Plead not guilty and fight it in a trial. The jury will decide whether you are guilty.

2. Plead guilty but not before you have time to plea bargain with the prosecutor for a lesser charge and/or a lesser sentence. It is like "I will plead guilty to save court costs and time having a trial but only if the prosecutor is willing to give me a favorable offer."

Thanks for responding.
I am an adult and this is my first offense ( no other criminal record before).

I cannot NOT plead guilty, because the jury will decide someday that I am guilty (the store has proof that I walked out of the store and I was standing right outside the door with the merchandise).

If I plead guilty, does that automatically constitute a conviction and in turn, go on my criminal record?

Can I plead guilty/ no contest and somehow get away without conviction or criminal record? (It doesnt matter how much I pay in fines and attorney fees, I just do not want to have it on my criminal record as a conviction).


Another issue, the alleged actions occured last saturday (3/18 and I have a citation that I need to respond to within 10 days. When do I contact an attorney to represent me...before the 10 days expire?


Please help!! Thank you.

Yes, if you plead guilty, you are convicted of the charge and you will have a criminal conviction record. No contest is the same.

How much was the shirt? What are you being charged with (the charge should be on your citation)?

You need a lawyer before the arraignment (the court date on your citation).

The shirt was $65. This is what it says on the citation: Defendent concealed the merchandise and exit the store depriving the store of the full retail value $65.


So you are saying, the only way I cannot get convicted is to plead not guilty. But based on the evidence....I could be proved guilty..and will have a conviction.

I was wondering...based on my case..if there is a way I can NOT be convicted ...
Thank you again!!

Talk to a local lawyer about the possibility that you might qualify for a delayed sentence or diversion program.

Does seem like Bloomingdale's has a strong case against you. they have witnesses and video.

To avoid a conviction, as Aaron suggested, try to see if you are qualified for a pre-trial diversion program or something similar. Different courts call it differently. If you are accepted into one, you will not have a conviction.

Are you a noncitizen? If yes, you have to watch out because different programs work differently.

Yes, the LP showed me the videos and the store has a strong case against me. So how would I know if I can qualify for a pre-trial diversion or delayed sentence? Is this the only way I cannot be convicted?
This is my first offense (of any kind). Yes, I am a non-citizen.
I spoke to one of the attorneys..and he said, this would be categorised as a summary offense and based on the evidence I will be convicted but I will not have it on my criminal record. Is that true? If I am convicted, will it not be on my criminal record (because it is a summary offense (petty offense exception)?

Please help!!
Thank you again.....I really appreciate your help....reading your responses ....I actually know what to ask the lawyers.

If you are convicted, you have a criminal record. But whether this record will affect anything, e.g. employment, immigration consequences, that is another story. Don't mix them up.

As far as the INS, you have at least two things to worry about if you are convicted: inadmissibility and deportability.

Since theft a is CIMT, if the maximum potential sentence of your charge is one year or more, you will become deportable no matter what the actual sentence is.

On the other hand, if the maximum potential sentence of your charge is one year or less and the sentence imposed is six months or less, you are qualified for the petty offense exception and you will not be inadmissible. Otherwise, you will become inadmissible. that is, if you leave the US, they may not allow you back in.

Note: Immigration law changes all the time. Make sure you consult with an immigration lawyer to get the latest.

First, check with your lawyer to see if you are OK on the above two areas IF you are convicted.

Second, see if a pre-trial diversion program is available in your city. If it is, ask your lawyer about how you could get it. Sometimes if the amount is small enough, the prosecutor will actually offer the program without you asking. But sometimes, you have to ask for it.

You could also ask your lawyer to see if a civil compromise is doable in your city. But for a big company like Bloomingdale's, most of the time they are not interested.

Firstly, I need to see if I can get a pre-trial diversion or civil compromise.

Or, I have to make sure, even if I am convicted, the maximum potential sentence of my charge is one year or less and the sentence imposed is six months or less (to qualify for a petty offense excpetion)

Thank you very very much!!
BTW, I am in PA.

Almost...

To avoid becoming deportable, the maximum sentence has to be LESS THAN one year, not "one year OR less".

If pre-trial diversion or civil compromise doesn't work, plea bargain from theft to something that is not considered CIMT. That would be helpful in the long run with the INS.

I met with an attorney today and she said, for a $65 value, it would be considered a 'petty offense' and I will not be convicted. I would have to pay some fine and the offense would be termed a 'disorderly conduct' something very similar to a traffic violation.

This is what she said..this will not constitute a CIMT, and becuz I was not fingerprinted, it will not a criminal record.

After reading through everyone's experiences, I seriously doubt what the lawyer has told me.

Can someone please confirm? MovieJim, PaulE, Aaron???
I highly appreciate your help..Thank you.

I don't understand what she is saying.

Just because you were not fingerprinted had nothing to do whether you would have a criminal record at the end. If you are convicted of theft, you would have a criminal record. If you are not convicted, you would not have a criminal record.

I am just guessing here. Maybe what she means is for a theft charge of $65, and the fact that this is your first time, she is confident that she could plea bargain with the prosecutor to lessen your charge from theft to disorderly conduct.

And whether disorderly conduct is a misdemanor or an infraction or is considered a CIMT by the INS depends on what the local law says. Where did it happen?

Moviejim..I wasn't able to check your response..sorry for the delay....


Even I don't understand what the attorney is saying.

Because I have not been fingerprinted, she thinks....it will not go on my criminal record. She thinks the case will be dismissed as 'disorderly conduct' and will be treated similar to a traffic violation. There will not be a conviction. She also said, this offense will not constitute a CIMT.

She keeps saying..'Most likely' and she is very certain about the case that I will not be convicted.

I am a PA resident and it happened in PA.

That's what I thought. She thinks she is able to plea bargain it from theft to disorderly conduct, which based on your information, is only an infraction, not a crime. A conviction of an infraction usually doesn't come up on a background search.

The fact that you haven't been fingerprinted is good. As you know, as a noncitizen, everytime you enter the U.S. from overseas, you will be fingerprinted. Without a fingerprint record and without a criminal record will certainly make life a lot easier.

Can I rely on the attorney's words (from my previous posts). I understand I am in a deep mess, but I dont want this on my records. This lawyer is asking for $650 as her fee.

Or should I contact another lawyer to see what response I get and what course of action to take.

It is always wise to get 2nd or 3rd opinion. Talk to more lawyers to see what they say. $650 is not expensive at all for a private lawyer. You can easily find someone who would charge you at least $2,000 if they have more experience. Is she familiar with immigration law? As a matter of fact, you should get opinion from both criminal defense and immigration lawyers.

What it comes down to is no lawyer could say 100%. It all depends on how strong the evidence is and more importantly what the prosecutor thinks. If you have a tough prosecutor, he may not accept any plea bargaining and may insist on charging you with theft. Or he may offer you a pre-trial diversion program and you are off the hook.

When is the arraignment?

I dont know yet. I am going to make the $650 payment today with $50 collateral.
She is an immigration lawyer. I wanted to make sure..whatever be the sentence, it shouldnt impact my immigration matters.

If the prosecutor does not accept plea bargaining, then should I ask for pre-trial diversion..in that order.??

Other than the $650 attorney fee, $50 collateral, would I have to pay for court costs, fines and fines to the store too??

I dont know when the arrraignment is.

I thought you received a citiation with a court date on it?

No. A smaller fine or a shorter probation is the easiest to get from a prosecutor. Next is probably a lesser charge, like in your case from theft to disorderly conduct. The hardest is pre-trial diversion because you walk away without a conviction of any kind.

If the prosecutor plays hardball and won't budge on the charge, he is not going to give pre-trial diversion.

$650 is just for your lawyer. That doesn't include court fees, fine, and civil demand.

I received a citation and I had to respond if I plead guilty or not guilty within 10 days. Today is the 9th day. There was no court date on the citation.

Thanks for your quick responses. I highly appreciate your responses.

I am getting tensed. My lawyer said...most likely we can make it a 'disorderly conduct' and I will not be convicted. But What if the prosecutor wants me convicted or punish me with a stricter sentence.

I asked my lawyer if she has any other route if the prosecutor turns downs the plea bargain.....she said...dont worry ...most likely it will be dismissed as 'disorderly conduct'.

I guess the courts in PA work differently.

Normally, you (or sometimes your lawyer could do this on your behalf) appear in court to enter a guilty or not guilty plea. Your lawyer will have a chance to talk to the prosecutor.

Just out of curiosity, how are you going to enter your plea tomorrow? What is your lawyer going to do?

My lawyer said, she will take my citation to the court to get a hearing date. We are not indicating whether I plead guilty or Not guilty now.

And, I will be informed of the hearing date by my lawyer when I have to appear in front of the judge.

When you say prosecutor in your post.. do u mean the police officer who gave me the citation?

:oops:

I received a Fingerprint Order form from the District court in PA. The type of case says: Retail Theft and Police Prosecution (Summons).

If I give my fingerprints .....that will certainly stay in my criminal history????

Can I avoid giving my fingerprints somehow?

Someone please respond.
Thank you

When the police are called, you have an arrest record with the police.

When you are formally charged, you have a charge record with the court.

No matter what happens at the end, i.e. whether you are guilty or not, those records stay forever. So, it is not like you are completely clean without the fingerprint record.

You should consult your lawyer to see whether it is possible not to give fingerprints. But technically, that has nothing to do with whether you are guilty or not guilt of a crime. Yes, that creates another record and being a noncitizen, it may be a hassle explaining your case to the Homeland Security officer every time you enter the US from overseas.

Talk to your lawyer.

Thanks...Moviejim

I will checkwith my attorney......... what he attorney says about my fingerprint order.

Thanks

The lawyer thinks..if the court asks for the fingerprints.....we need to give the fingerprints...

I was checking with her..if there was anyway..we can NOT give fingerprints

She said...once the case is over...we can petition the court to remove the fingerprints from their records.....Is this possible.....

Thanks

I guess if you are not convicted at the end, it is possible.

I have a hearing on July 10th.

Theft no matter what state your in requires the mental state of intentionally. In other words someone to commit a crime of theft they have to INTENTIONALLY deprive the owner of their property. If what you say is true, you did not INTENTIONALLY deprive anyone of anything. You simply forgot you had the shirt on your arm(which happens ALL the time) and walked outside. The store can have all the video footage of you selecting merchandise and walking out, etc. they want but if you didn't intend to steal it you didn't commit a crime. The trick is proving that you didn't intend to steal it. Fortunately for you in criminal cases the prosecutor has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you intended to steal, which simply cannot be done. Now, if they have video footage showing you rip the price tags of or something to that nature than you don't have a case. Otherwise it would seem to me a pretty easy case to defend because there is a lot of reasonable doubt as to whether or not you intended to steal. Now is it worth your time and money to fight it...that's up to you.

It is possible to achieve a conviction where a defendant claims to have forgotten that she had an item she is accused of stealing. Walking out of a store with unpurchased merchandise is a pretty strong circumstantial case for shoplifting, and most claims of "Oh, I forgot" aren't true. That doesn't mean that a jury will convict, or will disbelieve the defendant's explanation - but conviction is possible.

I understand it is going to be very tricky and difficult. But I know for sure, the store will not have any proof of me ripping the price tag off the shirt, bcuz I never did it.

All I need from this, is to not be convicted and get it done with.

This is what finally happened when I went to court today.

I reached there about 10 mins early and my attorney was already in the waiting room. My hearing was scheduled for 11.30AM and at about 11.40 a police officer came up to my attorney and asked her if she was there for the retail theft case.

Pretty simple, the officer asked the attorney what was the offer and my attorney said, she would like it to be 'disorderly conduct' and the 'Retail theft charge' be withdrawn. The officer said great and withdrew the 'Retail theft charge' and made me plead guilty to 'Disorderly conduct' charged me a fine of $170.

Now, I pled guilty to disorderly conduct (5503 A1) in PA as per my Attorney's words. I do not feel like I got a good deal. I know people somehow end up not getting convicted. My lawyer was hell bent on making it a disorderly conduct and never tried to avoid a conviction.

IF someone can please explain the consequences of pleading guilty to disorderly conduct in PA, I would greatly appreciate that.
Thanks to everyone who helped me through the tough times.

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Quoting Innocentme!!

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This is what finally happened when I went to court today.

I reached there about 10 mins early and my attorney was already in the waiting room. My hearing was scheduled for 11.30AM and at about 11.40 a police officer came up to my attorney and asked her if she was there for the retail theft case.

Pretty simple, the officer asked the attorney what was the offer and my attorney said, she would like it to be 'disorderly conduct' and the 'Retail theft charge' be withdrawn. The officer said great and withdrew the 'Retail theft charge' and made me plead guilty to 'Disorderly conduct' charged me a fine of $170.

Now, I pled guilty to disorderly conduct (5503 A1) in PA as per my Attorney's words. I do not feel like I got a good deal. I know people somehow end up not getting convicted. My lawyer was hell bent on making it a disorderly conduct and never tried to avoid a conviction.

IF someone can please explain the consequences of pleading guilty to disorderly conduct in PA, I would greatly appreciate that.
Thanks to everyone who helped me through the tough times.

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You'll have a disorderly conduct charge on your permenant record. Don't dis the lawyer. He apparently felt that the prosecutor had sufficient evidence to make his case and that he may have won the case at trial. Disorderly is akin to a traffic ticket and really won't affect you much. I would much rather have that than a "retail theft" conviction.

Since your case resulted in a guilty verdict in Pennsylvania , your only chance for expungement is to obtain a Governor’s pardon: http://www.clsphila.org/Erasing_a_Criminal_Record.htm

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Quoting weenor

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You'll have a disorderly conduct charge on your permenant record. Don't dis the lawyer. He apparently felt that the prosecutor had sufficient evidence to make his case and that he may have won the case at trial. Disorderly is akin to a traffic ticket and really won't affect you much. I would much rather have that than a "retail theft" conviction.

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"Don't dis the lawyer." What does this mean..........

It just seems to me like the attorney was only up for money. She didnt tryto avoid the conviction. Also, as soon as the prosecutor agreed to disorderly conduct, she started explaining to me her fees for expunging the charge.

I understand disorderly conduct is a lesser charge than a retail theft charge. But is it any better than getting a probation or delayed sentence. My only concern is that I spent about $1000 so far and I still have a criminal conviction on my record for no fault of mine. Someone please explain the consequences of having disorderly conduct (5503 A1 -4) on my record. Will this affect my immigration status? I addressed this issue with my attorney, but she keeps saying everything is going to be fine.

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Quoting Innocentme!!

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"Don't dis the lawyer." What does this mean..........

Disrepect. I really wonder how you ever got caught.

It just seems to me like the attorney was only up for money.

A $125,000 in student loans will do that to you.

She didnt tryto avoid the conviction.

We don't know what evidence the prosecutor had and we are not privy to the discussions between your lawyer and the ADA. My guess is that she was trying to avoid having your butt along with its attachments on a lengthy probation or suffering the other consequences of a more serious conviction.

Also, as soon as the prosecutor agreed to disorderly conduct, she started explaining to me her fees for expunging the charge.

To make you feel better. I personally wouldn't have bothered.

I understand disorderly conduct is a lesser charge than a retail theft charge. But is it any better than getting a probation or delayed sentence. My only concern is that I spent about $1000 so far and I still have a criminal conviction on my record for no fault of mine.

Really? No fault of yours? Think about that

Someone please explain the consequences of having disorderly conduct (5503 A1 -4) on my record. Will this affect my immigration status? I addressed this issue with my attorney, but she keeps saying everything is going to be fine.

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Typical, get yourself into trouble, get the lawyer to bail you out and the turn on her when she didn't get you completely "off" Of course its her fault. Was she with you in the dressing room too?

If your not sure about your status stop shoplifting and call an immigration attorney.

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Quoting Innocentme!!

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My only concern is that I spent about $1000 so far and I still have a criminal conviction on my record for no fault of mine.

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I understand what you saying. But try and understand someone has to be responsible. One day a female drove her car into the back of mine. She did not do it purposely. She mentioned to the officer she was adjusting her radio. So she is at fault. Imagine someone dropping and damaging something of yours by mistake. That person will be at fault. Imagine you asking for change for a $100 dollar bill. You hand the bill to the man who tells you he has change. He gets a sudden phone call. He truly forgets about handing you change as he stays on the phone, walks to his car and drives away. Even though it was a mistake he forgot about handing you your change, he is at fault.

But remember, it will all go away.

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Quoting weenor

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Typical, get yourself into trouble, get the lawyer to bail you out and the turn on her when she didn't get you completely "off" Of course its her fault. Was she with you in the dressing room too?

If your not sure about your status stop shoplifting and call an immigration attorney.

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Don't mean to disrespect you, but you sure seem to have no intention of actually helping someone. What are you talking...........
I really wonder how you ever got caught.
A $125,000 in student loans will do that to you.

If you dont have the time to read the whole thread .....I would appreciate if you could save others from your uninformed responses.

I certainly wasn't expecting a response from someone who passes by this thread without reading through the trail of posts.

TO clarify ....I had the services of an immigration attorney who specializes in criminal cases (at least thats what her profile says).

I did not ask you about my current immigration status.....I understand my current immigration status very well....that was not my question....

Please do not type something....which you are not even sure you actually mean.....Was she with you in the dressing room too?

I would greatly appreciate if someone who has been following the thread responds to this post (moviejim, aaron, LP1186) please........

Thanks

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Quoting Innocentme!!

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I would greatly appreciate if someone who has been following the thread responds to this post (moviejim, aaron, LP1186)

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Sorry I was late :)