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Law student caught shoplifting at Target

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  • 03-13-2006, 06:43 PM
    crudess
    Law student caught shoplifting at Target
    Alright, I am a first year law student. I got caught shoplifting at Target today with my boyfriend. He had $187 worth and I had $59 worth.

    The whole ordeal was embarassing. They took my boyfriend's arm and ordered him to open the door to the security area in the front entrance where we were stopped. They handcuffed my boyfriend. Made a scene in front of other customers. We were in the room, closed doors, and it was videotaped.

    I asked why they handcuffed him and they told me that because he was being a little rough and I said politely "I'm sorry, how so?". There was one police officer there and he said in a really mean and asshole way, "I just told you why". Then the cop said, "you guys are both under arrest for shoplifting".

    There was a guy not in uniform filling out papers. They asked for IDs. We submitted them. . they were being a little more casual and nicer. I made it a point to point out the fact that I was a law student (just in case there was gonna be any discrimination brutality crap that I've seen and grown up with all my life being a tatooed, pierced minority). I just wanted to let them know I was paying attention to everything.

    They took down our address and said "you'll probably get a fine for the amount you stole in the mail". The cop asked if we were ever arrested before and we said no. My boyfriend lied but I have never ever gotten in trouble for anything, which is the truth.

    We were NOT asked to sign anything. We were not informed of any kind of court hearing or summons. We were not told what kind of charge we would get or what to expect other than "probably a fine for the amounts we stole from the corporation". They took my boyfriend's picture then unhandcuffed him. They did not take my picture saying "I don't want to waste your time" to me. They let us go nicely and we were free.

    I have two problems. What the hell is going to happen? How come I didn't have to sign anything or why the hell did they treat my boyfriend differently than me?

    As a law student I have a duty to disclose any kind of citation, parking tickets, traffic, anything and everything ever on record. I don't even know how to describe it. . .what do I put there? I was arrested? I haven't been convicted of it and they didn't make me sign anything. . .do I need a lawyer?
  • 03-13-2006, 08:06 PM
    moviejim
    When you said "they", did you mean LPs or police? Were you caught by the police or by the LPs?

    I believe there is nothing to report at this point. You have not been formally charged yet. As far as being arrested, you could ask how that is defined in your state and decide whether you need to report that. I was once told that you are considered arrested only if they handcuff you and bring you back to the police station. From your post, the police didn't do that.
  • 03-13-2006, 08:43 PM
    crudess
    Quote:

    Quoting moviejim
    When you said "they", did you mean LPs or police? Were you caught by the police or by the LPs?

    I believe there is nothing to report at this point. You have not been formally charged yet. As far as being arrested, you could ask how that is defined in your state and decide whether you need to report that. I was once told that you are considered arrested only if they handcuff you and bring you back to the police station. From your post, the police didn't do that.

    Ok, there was two guys. One guy was in regular clothes filling out the paper work and questioning us. There was a uniformed cop (I am positive this person was not a rent-a-cop) who handcuffed my boyfriend and said "you guys are under arrest" and there was no more further interaction. I'm pretty sure that these two guys were on the premises before we even entered the store. When I say "they" I mean the guy not in uniform. As far as I can remember, I don't believe the cop even scanned or did anything with the physical IDs.

    Yeah, I always thought an arrest was when you get stopped and then taken elsewhere to get booked. They simply did not tell us anything except that we'll "probably get fined the amount you guys took".

    I'm talking to the law school dean tomorrow about it. I'll write back. Thank you very much for your attention. I really really appreciate it. I have been trying to do my own research all day on this on lexis and westlaw.
  • 03-13-2006, 09:05 PM
    moviejim
    Then the guy not in uniform is probably the LP from Target.

    Yes, Target will ask for civil demand. It is probably what the LP meant when he said you would get a fine. This is civil.

    Since the police were also involved, you probably would get a ticket in the mail for a court appearance. (Are you sure that was a "real" cop and not some security guy in uniform? Just because he handcuffed your boyfriend doesn't mean he is necessarily a real cop. LPs and security people can handcuff your boyfriend as well.)

    It is strange that they took a picture of your boyfriend but not you. If it is a company policy to do that, they should have taken your picture as well.
  • 03-13-2006, 09:09 PM
    crudess
    we were caught by the LP
  • 03-13-2006, 09:21 PM
    crudess
    I'm not even sure if that guy was a "real" cop anymore. My memory is starting to fade. I have written an objective recollection of facts and there still a lot of haze. But will an LP say things like "you're under arrest" ?

    I don't doubt a company like Target would press charges. I'm already assuming they will. But, everybody else says that Target made them sign stuff. . . .they didn't do that. Isn't that odd how the LP didn't take my picture but took my boyfriends? . . .he put the camera up to take my picture and said "I don't want to waste your time" and put it down

    My main concern now is what the hell am I going to say in front of the bar examiners? Should I talk to an attorney?

    I'm so frustrated. Some one PLEASE represent me! I can't afford this f*cking sh*t at all.
  • 03-14-2006, 05:41 AM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Quote:

    Quoting crudess
    I'm not even sure if that guy was a "real" cop anymore. My memory is starting to fade. I have written an objective recollection of facts and there still a lot of haze.

    No offense, but it sounds like you were under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol. If your idea of a good time is getting wasted to the point where you're able to forget your future and go out shoplifting, by the time the bar examiners are looking at your file you may have bigger problems than this incident.

    Quote:

    Quoting crudess
    But will an LP say things like "you're under arrest" ?

    An LP can place you under citizen's arrest.

    Also, in some jurisdictions police officers moonlight as private security guards, but in police uniform. (A questionable practice, and not universally permitted.)

    Quote:

    Quoting crudess
    My main concern now is what the hell am I going to say in front of the bar examiners? Should I talk to an attorney?

    You can try contacting the local court to see if there are any cases filed under your name or your boyfriend's name. You can try to FOIA incident reports from the local police department in relation to any shoplifting incidents at Target on the date in question.

    There are two ways to look at the term "arrested". The first would be in the broadest sense, which is that you are under arrest when you are detained by the police under circumstances where (beyond a brief, investigatory Terry-type stop) a reasonable person would not feel free to leave. (I guess it would be possible to broaden that to include citizen's arrest, but there is no record of a citizen's arrest unless the police become involved.) The second would be something that would create an actual arrest record, such as a booking at the police station. Odds are the bar examiners will ask about that second category of arrest, as opposed to the first (where it may be questionable whether or not an arrest actually occurred).

    A lawyer may be able to help you figure out whether or not you were arrested, and whether or not charges are likely

    Quote:

    Quoting crudess
    I'm so frustrated. Some one PLEASE represent me! I can't afford this f*cking sh*t at all.

    Hey - your name is crudess, not crudeness. Chill.
  • 03-14-2006, 05:58 AM
    chuckycheese
    Attitude
    Based on your attitude (and likely, your appearance), I think you've got a lot more important things to worry about than law school. You sound like someone headed for a life filled with trouble.

    Instead of worrying about law school, you'd do well to change your attitude and your criminal habits....in the long run, that's a lot more important. :?
  • 03-14-2006, 07:21 AM
    crudess
    I was not under the influence of drugs or alcohol. My memory fades just like any human being's memory would fade after some time. . .(i.e. the issue of validity of eye witness testimony).

    People make mistakes. I do not appreciate the lessons in morality. Our criminal justice system rests on the idea that no matter what crime you commit, you still have rights and those rights include competent representation and due process in a court of law. Not everybody is above the law, not even the cops. mmmmmkay

    I never asked for a layperson's baised judgements. This isn't a Cosmo article. I can talk to neighbors and family for that. I need a non-objective legal perspective.

    I got good grades and paid my tuition and got admitted to study law. Even with the education, not everybody is cut out for corporate life or society for that matter. These are obviously personal problems that I need to sort out.
  • 03-14-2006, 07:28 AM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Forgetting an Arrest
    Memory does not normally fade in the manner you are describing after only a day. And traumatic events, such as being arrested or detained for shoplifting, frequently result in a sharpening of memory of the incident as opposed to a loss of memory.

    Honestly, I would find your conduct more understandable (if not excusiable) if you were wasted. What were you thinking? How many times have you done this?

    Quote:

    Quoting crudess
    I need a non-objective legal perspective.

    That would be... a subjective legal perspective?
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