Forced into HOV Lane then Given a Ticket

My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Washington

Okay, to avoid me summarizing and putting my bias into what happened, I'm going to recount what happened first:

I was driving by myself on WA-99 at about 4pm on a Thursday, heading toward I-5 north. I got into a turn lane toward the on-ramp, turned and within about 100 feet after turning, saw that I was heading toward the HOV on-ramp. I put on my turn signal and slowed, but traffic was backed up from the regular on-ramp to the traffic light where I turned, so there was no way I could merge right. I turned off my turn signal and started to drive toward the on-ramp, and a police officer standing outside his car was waiting there.

He pointed at me and started pointing toward the freeway. I didn't know what I was asking, so I put up my arms to let him know I wasn't sure what he was trying to say. He ran to his car so I pulled over toward the guard rail waiting for him to pull me over. He did, and very angrily on his bullhorn (or whatever the speaker thing is called) said "SINCE YOU AREN'T VERY GOOD AT FOLLOWING DIRECTIONS, PULL OVER AT THE END OF THE GUARD RAIL". I was a bit freaked out that he seemed so angry, so I did exactly that and he followed it up with "GET OFF THE ROAD SO WE DON'T GET HIT!" - as he actually wanted me to pull off the road after the guard rail.

He walked up to my window, and asked for my license, registration, and insurance. I opened my glovebox and handed him my insurance, opened my wallet and gave him my license, but after looking through my glovebox and a bag I keep in my car with a bunch of info, I couldn't find the registration. He said he'd figure it out, and went back to his car. About 5 minutes later, he walked up to my window and handed me a ticket, before even asking me about anything. I tried to tell him about the situation, and that I didn't want to be in the HOV lane but couldn't merge without completely blocking traffic, and he kept hesitating but the ticket was already in my hand.



Okay, so 1. I was absolutely compliant and yet he was, for lack of a better word, an ass 2. I didn't choose to be in the lane I was in, but was forced in because of the traffic, and he printed out the ticket without saying anything more than "license, registration, and insurance", and 3. I'm a VERY safe driver, have no tickets and only 1 accident when I was 16 (I'm 23 now), and haven't even been pulled over and given a warning.

So I'm planning on contesting this ticket because I didn't do anything wrong and was given the ticket while the cop was completely ignorant of the circumstances. What's the best way for me to bring all this up in court?

Was there no sign indicating that you were turning onto the HOV lane BEFORE you actually got on the on-ramp?

Also, and while most officers will ask questions before the ticket is issued, they are not required to do so... Once they witness an alledged violation, they can just pull you over, cite you and send you on your way. In fact, most people who answer questions at the time of the stop, tend to incriminate themselves by giving up more information than they should. So maybe you're lucky he asked you nothing...

There was a sign that said there was an HOV on-ramp lane, but it definitely wasn't clear that that turn lane (with the traffic) meant I'd have no opportunity to change lanes. Again I was forced into the turn lane I was in because of traffic. At no point did I ever have an opportunity to get out of the turn lane that led to the HOV on-ramp or the HOV on-ramp itself. Traffic had blocked me and despite me genuinely trying to get out of the lane I simply couldn't, barring coming to a complete stop and blocking all the traffic behind me.

And just to clarify, I don't mean I was blocked when I was 100 feet from the freeway and well on the HOV on-ramp. Traffic was busy on the state route up to the freeway on-ramp, so even there I didn't have any real opportunity to change lanes, even if I did somehow know that the traffic light I'd get to eventually would force me to be in the HOV lane. I was forced into the turn lane from WA-99 onto the I-5 on-ramp because of the traffic, and after the turn I had no opportunity to change lanes.

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Quoting rflieder

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There was a sign that said there was an HOV on-ramp lane, but it definitely wasn't clear that that turn lane (with the traffic) meant I'd have no opportunity to change lanes.

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Then take a picture with you when you go to court and see if the judge agrees that it wasn't clear...

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Quoting rflieder

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So I'm planning on contesting this ticket because I didn't do anything wrong and was given the ticket while the cop was completely ignorant of the circumstances. What's the best way for me to bring all this up in court?

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The courts generally don't care about the officers attitude on a stop. The usually care about the facts and the element of the violation. Solo occupant in a HOV onramp seems to meet the requirements of the violation.

Issues with the way the officer treated you on the stop should go to the officers department.

PS, every officer I know dosen't want to get hit, maimed, or killed because someone stopped partially in a lane. An officer can get crushed between your car and the guardrail if your vehicle is hit.

let me give you one other piece of advise.

The next time an officer is gesturing madly to you to do something, I recommend you do it.

Playing charades in moving traffic will just hack him/her off.

You knew what you had to do... you had to stop and wait for someone to let you in. You decided that would take too long (and I think I know why... the other drivers didn't want to let an ass jump the line by riding the HOV lane, but I digress).

From the cop's point of view...

A car is trying to ride the HOV lane. When he sees the cop, he tries to merge but gives up. The cop then tries to cut you a break by telling you what to do... even though you already showed you KNEW what you should do.

You decide, instead, to make some kind of strange hand gesture and ignore his direction.

There was no reason to talk to you... you had already told the cop everything he needed to know.

cyjeff, that's quite grossly misrepresenting how things happened. He was standing in the dead space between the freeway and the on-ramp and furiously pointing at the freeway. Honestly I thought he was telling me to merge but that made no sense. It didn't look like there was much room between the on-ramp and the freeway, so when he told me he was trying to get me to pull in front of his stopped cop car (this was after he handed me the ticket and I began to explain what was going on) I looked back and don't see how that wasn't a dangerous situation to be in.

Oh and just to clarify, he was in the dead space between the on-ramp and the freeway, I was stuck in the HOV on-ramp between the freeway and the normal on-ramp lane, and he was standing in the dead space pointing at the freeway.

sniper, thing was he literally started his command with "since you aren't good at following directions..." so I did exactly what he told me to, pull over at the end of the guard rail. He then got more upset with me because I didn't pull off the road but took his directions literally, so I don't understand how I'm being a jerk by following his directions explicitly when he starts of by telling me I can't follow directions.

It just seems to me that a normal way for this to go down would have been for him to pull me over off the road instead of in the middle of the freeway, then come up to my window and after 10 seconds of me explaining the situation then he could make a decision whether or not I deserved a ticket. Not to be aggressive toward me despite not knowing any of the circumstances and automatically giving me a ticket.


But basically all this is beside the point. The turn lane wasn't marked well and I was forced by traffic into the HOV lane, so I'll find a camera and take some photos. My guess is the cop got pissed and for whatever reason wanted to give me a ticket- but that doesn't matter. What matters is that I wasn't trying to hop onto the HOV lane to skip traffic but was forced in because of a poorly labeled turn light and bad traffic. Thanks That Guy.


EDIT: Oh and relevant but on a different topic, I want to file a complaint against the officer for his conduct as I was doing everything I could to be compliant and he really freaked me out by being overly aggressive and unreasonably upset - and I'm not one to be easily startled or offended. Would it be better to file such a complaint before or after my ticket hearing, or would it matter? In other words, would it make me look particularly bad filing this complaint, make more of a case for my argument which completely disregards his conduct, or would it not matter?

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Quoting rflieder

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after 10 seconds of me explaining the situation then he could make a decision whether or not I deserved a ticket. Not to be aggressive toward me despite not knowing any of the circumstances and automatically giving me a ticket.

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It is NOT for the officer to judge whether you deserved the ticket or not. He witnesses (sees you driving into the HOV lane with no passengers), his job is to cite you for the "alleged" violation and leave it up to the judge to decide your guilt or innocence.

So you'll get more than the 10 seconds you wanted, that is your right as a defendant.

As for your filing a complaint, and whether you do it before or after your citation is adjudicated in court makes not difference.

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Quoting That Guy

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It is NOT for the officer to judge whether you deserved the ticket or not. He witnesses (sees you driving into the HOV lane with no passengers), his job is to cite you for the "alleged" violation and leave it up to the judge to decide your guilt or innocence.

So you'll get more than the 10 seconds you wanted, that is your right as a defendant.

As for your filing a complaint, and whether you do it before or after your citation is adjudicated in court makes not difference.

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Ok thank you that is a better way to look at it. And thanks for the info as well... I wasn't sure if it would make any difference one way or the other.

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Quoting rflieder

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cyjeff, that's quite grossly misrepresenting how things happened. He was standing in the dead space between the freeway and the on-ramp and furiously pointing at the freeway.

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Its called the gore.

And his "furiously pointing" should have been a dead giveaway as to what you needed to do to avoid a ticket.

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Honestly I thought he was telling me to merge but that made no sense.

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And here your rant falls apart.

He was telling you to get out of the HOV lane. That makes a tremendous amount of sense to me.

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It didn't look like there was much room between the on-ramp and the freeway, so when he told me he was trying to get me to pull in front of his stopped cop car (this was after he handed me the ticket and I began to explain what was going on) I looked back and don't see how that wasn't a dangerous situation to be in.

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Yup... you are correct. It would have been MUCH safer if you had just gotten out of the HOV lane.

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Oh and just to clarify, he was in the dead space between the on-ramp and the freeway, I was stuck in the HOV on-ramp between the freeway and the normal on-ramp lane, and he was standing in the dead space pointing at the freeway.

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I understand... but it doesn't change a thing.

sni

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per, thing was he literally started his command with "since you aren't good at following directions..." so I did exactly what he told me to, pull over at the end of the guard rail. He then got more upset with me because I didn't pull off the road but took his directions literally, so I don't understand how I'm being a jerk by following his directions explicitly when he starts of by telling me I can't follow directions.

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Now you are being intentionally dense... and it isn't attractive.

He pointed at the freeway... giving you direction on how to avoid a ticket. You decided that instead of avoiding a ticket that you would play charades.

As I teach my 16 year old daughter... your convenience is not worth anyone else's inconvenience. You do not have the right to break the law because traffic isn't doing what you want it to do or moving fast enough for you.

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It just seems to me that a normal way for this to go down would have been for him to pull me over off the road instead of in the middle of the freeway, then come up to my window and after 10 seconds of me explaining the situation then he could make a decision whether or not I deserved a ticket. Not to be aggressive toward me despite not knowing any of the circumstances and automatically giving me a ticket.

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Again, intentionally dense is not attractive.

What decision? He watched you commit an infraction, tried to get you to avoid a ticket and you decided to gesture instead of following officer instruction.

In addition, you took him off his post to deal with you.

He already KNEW you deserved a ticket. You are just miffed because you didn't get to talk your way out of it. You have no right to demand that audience at that time.

That is what court is for... but I really don't like your chances there. A bit.

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But basically all this is beside the point. The turn lane wasn't marked well and I was forced by traffic into the HOV lane, so I'll find a camera and take some photos. My guess is the cop got pissed and for whatever reason wanted to give me a ticket- but that doesn't matter. What matters is that I wasn't trying to hop onto the HOV lane to skip traffic but was forced in because of a poorly labeled turn light and bad traffic. Thanks That Guy.

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Judges LOVE hearing that it is everyone's fault but your own. Good luck with that.

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EDIT: Oh and relevant but on a different topic, I want to file a complaint against the officer for his conduct as I was doing everything I could to be compliant and he really freaked me out by being overly aggressive and unreasonably upset - and I'm not one to be easily startled or offended. Would it be better to file such a complaint before or after my ticket hearing, or would it matter? In other words, would it make me look particularly bad filing this complaint, make more of a case for my argument which completely disregards his conduct, or would it not matter?

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It won't have any effect on your ticket.

It will make you look like a idiot and a jerk... but you can complain to his/her superior... who will also give you grief for putting one of his officers in danger because you can't follow simple direction.