A cop cited me for a misdemeanor neither he or anyone else witnessed, after I admitted to it when questioned. (Soliciting without a license. He saw me jogging back to my to my car after a day of soliciting. He never even mentioned the clipboard in my hand.) He seemed upset when he first met me, and I did not want to make him more upset by not answering the questions.
He did not read me my rights before asking questions. But he also did not arrest me. Just cited me and I have to go to court.
Can he use my confession against me? It is almost the only evidence he has.
Do Miranda Rights Only Apply if I'm Arrested
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07-27-2009, 01:32 PMfluffycloudDo Miranda Rights Only Apply if I'm Arrested
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07-27-2009, 01:39 PMBORRe: Do Miranda Rights Only Apply if I'm ArrestedThat's probably because if he did not witness it, he could not arrest for it unless a warrant was taken out, it's called the "in presence" requirement for a warrantless misdemeanor arrest.Quote:
Quoting fluffycloud
If he was questioning you in the first place, he had some degree of suspicion you were involved.Quote:
He seemed upset at first, and I did not want to make him more upset by not answering the questions.
He did not read me my rights before asking questions. But he also did not arrest me. Just cited me and I have to go to court.
Can he use my confession against me? It is almost the only evidence he has.
General "on scene" questioning does not require Miranda. If you feel he had no probable cause to arrest without your confession as a supplement, plead not guilty. -
07-27-2009, 06:14 PMbigcountrysgRe: Do Miranda Rights Only Apply if I'm Arrested
To answer your question no they do not. You can invoke your rights at any time during questioning. All you have to say is I am invoking my rights at this time.
1. This may lead you on a trip down town
2. The officer may keep trying to question you. If he does you do not have to answer.
After you invoke your rights and inform the interviewer of this. The questioning should stop. You are no longer required to answer questions. -
07-27-2009, 06:30 PMcdwjavaRe: Do Miranda Rights Only Apply if I'm ArrestedYes, he can use your confession against you.Quote:
Quoting fluffycloud
Miranda is not required during an initial investigation. It is only required AFTER you are arrested and when he intends to interrogate you. From what you wrote, you were not arrested prior to his questions.
- Carl -
07-31-2009, 05:23 PMSNPJRRe: Do Miranda Rights Only Apply if I'm Arrested
The police can "ask" you anything they want, and you can "tell" them anything you'd like. Miranda doesn't apply until you have been taken into custody (arrest) and then formally questioned (interrogation).
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07-31-2009, 05:59 PMfluffycloudRe: Do Miranda Rights Only Apply if I'm Arrested
OK, but I can invoke my miranda rights before I'm arrested, right? Otherwise that would be a loop hole for them.
If an officer came up to me and asked me if I committed some dumb crime, and I did not know if he had evidence and did not want an additional charge of lying to a police officer, I could invoke my miranda rights right there, right?
If an investigator was looking into a murder, and thought I was one of the people who could have done it, and asked me where I was at that time, I could invoke my miranda rights at my door step, rather than risk admitting to being where the crime occured, right? -
07-31-2009, 06:50 PMcdwjavaRe: Do Miranda Rights Only Apply if I'm ArrestedSure. You can choose not to talk to the cops any time you please.Quote:
Quoting fluffycloud
It might leave the police with only one version of events to base a decision on, but there is no law that requires you to speak with the police.
- Carl -
07-31-2009, 07:18 PMKeyWestDanRe: Do Miranda Rights Only Apply if I'm Arrested
Lying to a police officer is not a crime.
Refusing to answer any questions is certainly going to be a red flag to any police officer. Beyond the basic stuff, claim ignorance.
Miranda rights do not really apply until you are arrested.
Lying on the stand is perjury and a criminal offense. Of course nobody testifying for the prosecution is ever charged with perjury.
Lying to a federal agent is and can be charged as obstruction of justice, but I have never read any case law where someone was actually convicted of that and appealed, so I suspect it does not actually happen very often. -
08-01-2009, 08:04 AMBORRe: Do Miranda Rights Only Apply if I'm ArrestedIF your state/jurisdcition has a law which mandates you at least give your name/ID IF you are "under investigation", emphasis added, you must, so in this case, no, you can't remain silent.Quote:
Quoting fluffycloud
Right.Quote:
If an investigator was looking into a murder, and thought I was one of the people who could have done it, and asked me where I was at that time, I could invoke my miranda rights at my door step, rather than risk admitting to being where the crime occured, right?
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08-01-2009, 02:01 PMSNPJRRe: Do Miranda Rights Only Apply if I'm Arrested
When you are going to "invoke your right to remain silent", do not say "I'm invoking my Miranda rights."...when you are "invoking" your 5th Amen. right to not self incriminate, this does not attach until custodial (arrest) interrogation (formal questioning).
What that basically means is any confession obtained after you've been arrested and questioning that commenced (other than relative booking info) without being Mirandized, would be inadmissable in court. Anything obtained before you're arrested though is fair game. Sort of like a spontanious confession, where the police just asked what happened and you blurt out "I did it, i'm guilty". You weren't Mirandized, but you were not in custody. That confession is fair game.
Anything before you're arrested is falling short of telling the cops to mind their own business. If you're truly innocent, telling the truth would not have an adverse effect here, and thus will rightfully "piss" them off.
You mentioned loop holes...yes, they exist. It's why lawyers make $250+ an hour...the law is one big loopdy-loop.