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No Engrossed Statement Hearing

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  • 07-18-2009, 03:21 PM
    Stitchwoof
    No Engrossed Statement Hearing
    Hello,

    I appealed my trial de novo case and submitted my paperwork several months ago. Last week, I received a copy of the case file that was submitted to the Appellate Department of the Superior Court. My judge had simply appended an amendment noting what she had deemed to be errors in my statement of the facts.

    So, my question is this. Is there supposed to be a hearing, or is it acceptable to simply for the lower court to just mail off the whole file without having me and the judge sign off on an engrossed statement?
  • 07-18-2009, 03:59 PM
    EWYLTJ
    Re: No Engrossed Statement Hearing
    Quote:

    Quoting Stitchwoof
    View Post
    Hello,

    I appealed my trial de novo case and submitted my paperwork several months ago. Last week, I received a copy of the case file that was submitted to the Appellate Department of the Superior Court. My judge had simply appended an amendment noting what she had deemed to be errors in my statement of the facts.

    So, my question is this. Is there supposed to be a hearing, or is it acceptable to simply for the lower court to just mail off the whole file without having me and the judge sign off on an engrossed statement?

    There is supposed to be a settled statement hearing.

    What changes did the judge make? Did it affect your arguments? Did the judge contradict any of your pertinent points? If so, you should send an objection to the appellate division.
  • 07-18-2009, 04:13 PM
    Stitchwoof
    Re: No Engrossed Statement Hearing
    Quote:

    Quoting EWYLTJ
    View Post
    There is supposed to be a settled statement hearing.

    What changes did the judge make? Did it affect your arguments? Did the judge contradict any of your pertinent points? If so, you should send an objection to the appellate division.

    The judge appears to have completely misinterpreted a section of my appeal when the citing officer started to act like opposing counsel.

    Is there any particular way I should file the motion? Should I have it written to have the case remanded or dismissed?
  • 07-18-2009, 05:21 PM
    EWYLTJ
    Re: No Engrossed Statement Hearing
    You should really take a few minutes and tell the whole story. You can't reasonably ask for advice when you only offer dribs and drabs of what happened.

    How did the officer act like a prosecutor? Did he question you? Did you object? Did the judge overrule you? Let's have some details!!
  • 07-18-2009, 05:38 PM
    Stitchwoof
    Re: No Engrossed Statement Hearing
    Quote:

    Quoting EWYLTJ
    View Post
    You should really take a few minutes and tell the whole story. You can't reasonably ask for advice when you only offer dribs and drabs of what happened.

    How did the officer act like a prosecutor? Did he question you? Did you object? Did the judge overrule you? Let's have some details!!


    Oops, I'm sorry. I'll start from the top.

    So, I had a trial de novo back at the beginning of they year. The original judge pro tem did not entertain my motion to dismiss because the officer did not respond to discovery and instead gave me a photocopy of the materials requested and the whole thing was continued.

    The next time was another judge pro tem and I figured, I'd try to at least raise the motion again, just to ask. The officer got rather agitated and protested that we had gone through this, that it was nonsense and we should move on. And the judge agreed and seemed irritated that I even tried to have the case dismissed.

    I mentioned this point in my statement on appeal: that I felt that the officer had gone too far and that his opposition to even revisiting it was improper and acting like opposing counsel. The judge disagreed with my interpretation saying the officer simply said that the only thing mattered was the ticket and I had already got that.

    The case file was sent to the Appellate Division with simply a copy of what I had submitted several months ago (the initial statement on appeal) and a 1 page amendment of the judge's corrections. No one mailed me a copy of the judge's corrections and the time stamp on the corrections indicates that the whole thing was shipped off to the Appellate Division without giving me the mandatory 10 days to review, much less even mailing me the corrections for review.

    The Appellate Division has already mailed me notice of when the briefs are due, so I'm unsure how to file a motion stating my opposition to the matter.
  • 07-18-2009, 06:13 PM
    That Guy
    Re: No Engrossed Statement Hearing
    Quote:

    Quoting Stitchwoof
    View Post
    So, I had a trial de novo back at the beginning of they year. The original judge pro tem did not entertain my motion to dismiss because the officer did not respond to discovery and instead gave me a photocopy of the materials requested and the whole thing was continued.

    Just a few comments if I may.... The officer is not obligated in any way to respond to your request for discovery. That, and the fact that you were given copies of the materials which you requested as well as a cotniuance so as to examine the same and prepare your defense does not justify your motion to dismiss (just prior to your motion to dismiss).

    But that is not why you filed your appeal. You filed your appeal on the grounds that the officer made comments that, in no way shape or form, deprived you of your ability to present as best a defense as you had prepared or that which you presented.

    With that being said, I think your request to that the appellate court that the case be dismissed based upon the lower court's failure to offer you the opportunity for a sttlement hearing, will be likely rejected. I think a more realistic request would be for them to remand the file back to the court so that it is processed in the usual manner.

    Best of luck to you though... I hope you will keep us updated on how it goes.
  • 07-18-2009, 06:28 PM
    Stitchwoof
    Re: No Engrossed Statement Hearing
    Quote:

    Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    Just a few comments if I may.... The officer is not obligated in any way to respond to your request for discovery. That, and the fact that you were given copies of the materials which you requested as well as a cotniuance so as to examine the same and prepare your defense does not justify your motion to dismiss (just prior to your motion to dismiss).

    But that is not why you filed your appeal. You filed your appeal on the grounds that the officer made comments that, in no way shape or form, deprived you of your ability to present as best a defense as you had prepared or that which you presented.

    With that being said, I think your request to that the appellate court that the case be dismissed based upon the lower court's failure to offer you the opportunity for a sttlement hearing, will be likely rejected. I think a more realistic request would be for them to remand the file back to the court so that it is processed in the usual manner.

    Best of luck to you though... I hope you will keep us updated on how it goes.


    I don't really mean to be this coy about my appeal and it's only fair that you guys get the whole picture. There were several points in my appeal, one of them being the aforementioned.

    The others, which the judge did not dispute involved an objection I raised when the officer refuse to provide an actual answer to a question I repeatedly posed, specifically the question was of the form, ‘Did I do X?’ The response was, ‘Only because of Y, if you hadn't A, B, C, bad consequences would have ensued’. My objection was overruled because the judge felt that the Officer's verbosity was a good thing.

    The judge also rejected photographs I had taken after the incident of the area where the ticket was received as I was attempting to demonstrate the poor lighting conditions in the area and my defense was based in-part on that factor. The judge refused to even examine them.

    Another involved the Judge's discretion at lowering the fine. I cited some personal financial difficulties and asked for lenience given those issues. The judge rejected it--as the judge has every right to do so--but padded the reject with some very, very snarky and unnecessary comments.
  • 07-18-2009, 06:48 PM
    EWYLTJ
    Re: No Engrossed Statement Hearing
    Maybe you should consider the fact that you come across as whiney. I hope you aren't offended, but that's how you sound here. Dismissal, by law, is not proper relief for failure to produce discovery. You got your discovery and a continuance. You screwed up by asking for the dismissal instead of asking that all evidence in your discovery request be inadmissable. Then, if the trial would have went on, there would have been no evidence against you. If you would have actually read the law concerning discovery instead of just winging it... you may have done ok.

    The fact that the cop was frustrated with you doesn't make him a prosecutor. And the judge's snarky remarks doesn't deprive you of due process. Furthermore, you come here asking for help and you give the A to B + C thingy that makes no sense. Your biggest failure here is that you have not been able to seperate your emotions from your defense. That's always a loosing situation.
  • 07-18-2009, 06:57 PM
    That Guy
    Re: No Engrossed Statement Hearing
    Stitchwoof

    Please don't misinterpret my comments as criticism... I honestly feel that you present an interesting question as it related to the appeals process itself.

    Other than that, and based on what you posted, I'll say the following:

    1. I think your appealing your case is based upon what I view as your feelings being hurt by the officer's comments at the beginning does not offer you the proper basis for an appeal.

    2. Your objection to the officer's answer, and unless you can provide more details than "X, Y, A, B & C", i think the judge can distinguish between a good answer and a bad answer. So just because he overruled your objection, we don't know how much that answer weighed in his final decision in your case.

    3. As for the judges snarky/unnecessary comments... You're speaking in code again. Based on how you stated your request and based on the specifics of what the judge's comments were, you may be justified in appealing on those grounds but then again, you may have just a bit upset due to his refusal rather that what he said when he refused your request. I don't know...

    I am sure you'll hear back from EWYLTJ too... His views are often extremely interesting, pertinent and they do present a different viewpoint than mine...
  • 07-18-2009, 07:27 PM
    Stitchwoof
    Re: No Engrossed Statement Hearing
    I realize many of these claims are tenuous at best. I wholeheartedly agree I could have done better, this was the first traffic ticket I attempted to fight. I don't mean to be flippant, bitter, or anything like that, and I'm sorry if I came across that way. I also don't really mean to be so coy, I'm a bit nervous about the whole thing.

    Maybe I can try again?


    I was stopped for going into a cone zone. It was late, dark, and the lighting around that area of the freeway is quite awful. I mistakenly believed that the off-ramp was still available. I saw a ramp closed sign and stopped. The police cruiser pulled up behind me and issued me a ticket for entering the cone zone.

    During the trial, I tried to make light of the fact of the poor lighting and the fact that I had immediately recognized my mistake.

    I had taken photographs of the area around the same time of day of the incident to attempt to demonstrate that the lighting really isn't great there. The Judge declined to look.

    I attempted to ask the officer several times about my behavior, if I had openly ignored the cone zone and every other obstacle to try and exit the freeway or if I had stopped once I realized my mistake. He drifted off explaining that he had to stop me and that if he had not I would have hurt a lot of CalTrans workers. I rephrased the question a few times and he gave me the same response.

    I attempted to object to the Officer's responses as non-responsive and I was overruled in that the Officer was being very forthcoming.

    After arguments, I asked the judge to consider lowering my fine in light of a few circumstances including the fact that someone just stole my catalytic converter the morning of the court trial (I drove to the courthouse in a small pickup sounding like an old, angry diesel and waited several hours for police to take a report of the theft) and that I am a college student. The judge commented that many college students want help with their finances and promptly rejected my request.
  • 07-18-2009, 07:29 PM
    EWYLTJ
    Re: No Engrossed Statement Hearing
    Quote:

    Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    I am sure you'll hear back from EWYLTJ too... His views are often extremely interesting, pertinent and they do present a different viewpoint than mine...

    Apparently, in this case, your viewpoint and mine are remarkably similar.
  • 07-18-2009, 08:19 PM
    Stitchwoof
    Re: No Engrossed Statement Hearing
    Hopefully, my re-explanation makes more sense, I suppose it might have been appropriate to ask for another continuance given the fact that I was waiting in the sun for several hours for the police to arrive to take a report regarding the theft of my catalytic converter and I almost missed my trial.

    I just wanted to add that, unless I'm misinterpreting the California Rules of Court the respondents only have 20 days after the Proposed Statement on Appeal is filed to add any amendments.

    My Judge didn't file their amendments for 4 months...what do I make of this?
  • 07-18-2009, 08:21 PM
    That Guy
    Re: No Engrossed Statement Hearing
    Quote:

    Quoting Stitchwoof
    View Post
    I attempted to ask the officer several times about my behavior, if I had openly ignored the cone zone and every other obstacle to try and exit the freeway or if I had stopped once I realized my mistake. He drifted off explaining that he had to stop me and that if he had not I would have hurt a lot of CalTrans workers. I rephrased the question a few times and he gave me the same response.

    I attempted to object to the Officer's responses as non-responsive and I was overruled in that the Officer was being very forthcoming.

    While the officer's response, (and depending upon what your specific question was and how he specifically replied), may have been non-responsive, you also have to admit that your question, which I assume was basically implying: “did I stop after committing the violation?”, was irrelevant to providing the judge with any to challenge the officer's testimony as to whether you did in fact commit the violation. Had there been a prosecutor in that courtroom, my guess is that he/she would have objected to the relevancy of your question prior to the officer to even begin to beat around the bush with his answer.

    Quote:

    Quoting Stitchwoof
    View Post
    The judge commented that many college students want help with their finances and promptly rejected my request.

    I'm not sure why you would consider that as snarky...

    Quote:

    Quoting EWYLTJ
    View Post
    Apparently, in this case, your viewpoint and mine are remarkably similar.

    Now, I have seen it all!!! :eek:
  • 07-19-2009, 06:12 AM
    That Guy
    Re: No Engrossed Statement Hearing
    Quote:

    Quoting Stitchwoof
    View Post
    Hopefully, my re-explanation makes more sense, I suppose it might have been appropriate to ask for another continuance given the fact that I was waiting in the sun for several hours for the police to arrive to take a report regarding the theft of my catalytic converter and I almost missed my trial.

    Let me reverse the tables here for a minute... Let's assume that the officer had a "personal issue" that day and went in to court and requested a continuance. What would be the one and only word you would have said in court that day???

    "DISMISS"!

    Am I right? So while you could have asked for a continuance, my guess is that the judge would have denied your request.

    Quote:

    Quoting Stitchwoof
    View Post
    I just wanted to add that, unless I'm misinterpreting the California Rules of Court the respondents only have 20 days after the Proposed Statement on Appeal is filed to add any amendments.

    My Judge didn't file their amendments for 4 months...what do I make of this?

    Well, unless, I'm misinterpreting the California Rules of Court, the judge, is NOT the Respondent in your case! So I honestly don't know what you can make of that.
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