My question involves child support in the State of: Florida
Child Support during incarceration
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I had my child back in March of 2008. Her father was arrested and sent to prison in June 2008 and has been there since. He was sentenced to 8 years and currently has a release date in 2016. I just went to a DOR hearing regarding child support for our daughter and as the hearing office said "of course I reserve on child support", how is it that an order can not even be put in place? I understand that I would most likely not receive any payments over the next 8 years but the arreage should be accuring. The way they explained it is that since he is not "capable" of working they can not impune minimum wage as they would if he was not incarcerated and just not working. From what they are telling me is that when he gets out 8 years from now, he starts at 0...no arreages no nothing. How is this possible????? Doesn't the "clean hands doctorine" prevent this exact thing from happening? Or does the it only apply when the support order was in place prior to incarceration? Why are me and my daughter going to pay for his mistake? His inability to work or pay is due to his own "voluntary" actions, how is he able to be relieved of 8 years worth of child support?
Any advise or knowledge anyone may have would be greatly appreciated. I have 10 days to do a Motion for Re-hearing and I need to know what ground I have to stand on.
I've researched case law but am unable to find anything in my district with like circumstances.
Child Support During Incarceration
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06-24-2009, 07:35 PMSkyluv2006Child Support During Incarceration
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06-25-2009, 07:55 PMXenaRe: Child Support During IncarcerationI fully understand your frustration, but the laws are clear. A CS order cannot be issued without a finding of some ability to pay, which the hearing officer could not do.Quote:
Quoting Skyluv2006
Now if you had already had an order, then he was incarcerated, a hearing officer would have the option to declare the inability to pay as a voluntary inabilty and then deny a request for a decrease in the order.
Unfortunately, you really don't have any legal reason to file for a re-hearing.
The best thing to do for now will be to keep an eye on his release date, and file as soon as he is released. You can keep track of his release date by going to http://www.dc.state.fl.us/InmateInfo/InmateInfoMenu.asp -
06-25-2009, 09:02 PMSkyluv2006Re: Child Support During Incarceration
So that means he doesn't have to pay anything back for the 8 years once he gets out? How does that make sense? It was a voluntary action that got him incarcerated. I just don't understand how he gets away scott free???? When he's released will they go back at all, or just start his child support as of the day of his release? This still does not make any sense. How is it that I'm suppose to work 2 and 3 jobs at sometimes and not get any contribution from him? I relieze I wouldn't see any of it now, but how can he gain from his bad act?
And since he's not going to be incarcerated for more than 50% of her life, I can't even have his rights terminated......right???
I just don't understand how this is fair!!!! I thought everything was suppose to be done "in the best interest of the child", how is this in the best interest?? -
06-26-2009, 08:40 PMCourtClerkRe: Child Support During Incarceration
Life isn't fair. Go find whoever told you it was and give him a good left hook in the chin.
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06-27-2009, 10:39 AMXenaRe: Child Support During IncarcerationThe law does allow a court to order retro support for up to 2 years when a CS order is first established.Quote:
Quoting Skyluv2006
As soon as he is released you can file for CS and ask that 2 years of retro support be ordered. A judge may or may not agree, but it's worth asking for anyway.
BTW- Do you now, or have you recieved any public assistance?
If you have, the DOR CSE will automatically file upon his release, so be sure to check with them if you've ever recieved any assistance. -
06-28-2009, 09:50 AMSkyluv2006Re: Child Support During Incarceration
First of all "CourtClerk", I know life isn't fair........I just don't see how this is RIGHT! How this is best for the kids.
Secondly, the only reason I would want to have his rights terminated is because of his current situation. I didn't want children to myself, I wanted a nice family. He choose to screw it up. And I don't see what good he can do for OUR daughter if he's in prison for the next eight years. Not to mention by the time he get's out OUR daughter won't even know him and quite frankly I think he's bound to do the same thing. Why would I want my daughter to even know what a screw up her father is if a better man is willing to claim and take care of her as his own, why not allow her that opportunity.
You acting like I did this to myself! I didn't ask for this, all I want to do is take care of OUR daughter as best as possible and unfortunately that takes money. I currently work full time 50+ hours and I'm a full time student at Everest University. I feel like I don't spend enough time with them as it is but if I can't get any sort of support I'm bound to have to get another job and there are only so many hours in a day. Whats the point of being a mother if I have to work 18hours a day 7 days a week?
And Lastly, I posted on this sight to get advice from someone who had knowledge of FL law surrounding these circumstances not to have someone put their petty little 2 cents in so they could make themselves feel better.
CourtClerk - If you don't have any knowledge of my situation or can offer any advice then don't bother posting a response. Doing so defeats the whole purpose of these law forums!!!
Thank You Zena!
While I don't like the answer you have given me at least I know it wasn't just the DOR telling storys. I'm not sure what your bakground actually is but if you know anything about DOR, it's get um in and get um out. They don't listen to a word you say or bother to explain anything to you. I still don't understand how this can be, because in essence your saying that if a person went to prison for 18 years beginning right after the child was born and getting out right after their 18th b-day. They would never have to contribute a single dime to the child's well being. That stilll doesn't make any sense to me. It's like they are benefiting from committing a crime. So not only do they get to avoid dealing with the waking up every 2 hours when the childs a baby or the terrible twos or the sneaking out as a tennager but they also get to avoid paying for othodontics, a car, or college. It just doesn't seem right that everything falls on the one parent. The one parent that is actually a productive part of society. I just don't get it!
Unfortunatly I make about $60 over the income limit for any type of assistance that I know of. How that makes sense either, I don't know. I make $60 to much so they take away $400 worth of benefits. The system is just not made for people like me, and yet I see people driving around in Lincoln Navigators with tons of gold and yet they get Section 8, food stamps....etc....etc......
I think I would qualify for Section 8 but the wait list is so full it's been closed for the last 2 yerars so I can't even get on the wait list much less get the assistance. Are there any other programs that you know of? I'm at my wits end! I'm trying my best working as much as I can and have even gone back to school to help our future but right now I just can't cut it by myself. I'm trying to take care of 3 people on one person's income and it's just not working right now. If you know of anywhere or anything else that could help make up the difference of what his support should be I would appreciate it.
Thank you! -
06-28-2009, 10:09 AMcyjeffRe: Child Support During Incarceration
Okay, let's turn this around.
He will be making nothing. What assets do you hope to attach? -
06-28-2009, 03:38 PMdivemedicRe: Child Support During Incarceration
I don't understand how a retroactive payment of CS to you helps the child in any way. It seems to me that you are more upset that he isn't paying YOU than you are about the child's welfare. Listen to yourself:
What in that statement sounds like concern for this child?Quote:
That stilll doesn't make any sense to me. It's like they are benefiting from committing a crime. So not only do they get to avoid dealing with the waking up every 2 hours when the childs a baby or the terrible twos or the sneaking out as a tennager but they also get to avoid paying for othodontics, a car, or college. It just doesn't seem right that everything falls on the one parent. The one parent that is actually a productive part of society. I just don't get it!
As far as your inability to get benefits, why not ask your boss for a $75 a month pay cut? Then you can get the $400 a month in benefits, and come out $325 ahead. -
06-28-2009, 08:27 PMSkyluv2006Re: Child Support During Incarceration
The concern for the child is the fact that I will not be able to pay for the things she needs much less the extras such as orthodontics or saving for her college. I do not live beyond normal means. I do not drive a flashy car and I can't remember the last time I bought myself something. I'm in school so I can make our future better and I probably never would have gone back if it wasn't for wanting a better life for my DAUGHTER! I don't see how it is in the best interest of our child that I have to work 2 or 3 jobs to keep a roof over our heads which means I wouldn't be able to spend anytime with her. I already have had to take out loans to help cover daycare expenses so I can work. My mother has helped us as much as possible to the point that she is now claiming bankruptcy. Over the course of the next 8 years I'm sure I'll put myself in even deeper debt just trying to make ends meet. How is it that I have to cover all that debt when I wasn't the only one that created her. I love my child and would do anything in the world for her, if this is the way it is then so be it, I just don't understand that I was not the only one to create her and yet I'm the only one being held responsible. I will do whatever it is that I need to do to keep me and my children out of a shelter but like I said there are only so many hours in a day and how does anyone take care of 3 people on less than $2000 (about $1700 after taxes) especially when their daycare alone is over $1000.
I know I choose to have my children but the fact that he not only gets to avoid the physical burden and challenge that young children demand but that he also gets to avoid the financial burden (which is quite hefty at this age, with daycare expenses) makes no sense to me!
I understand, even if I couldn't get any support at this time at least if the arrearages were accruing he would still be being held accountable. Does this not make sense?
As far as the benefits go, the monthly benefits would only be in food - that will not help me keep the lights on in my house much less a roof over our heads. There are other ways to get food and most of the time she is at daycare which feeds her anyways. I'm not all that concerned about food for me. I don't want to end up living in a shelter with my 2 kids just because I had bad taste in men. I may derserve it for my mistakes but my children don't!Quote:
Quoting divemedic
Here's the part that I don't understand. The "clean hands doctorine" does not allow any ccourt to relinquish or relieve any party from paying child support if their inability to pay is due to their own voluntary actions. This is the same thing that prevents people from getting their child support reduced when they lose their job because they got firerd or quit. I'd have to say him going out and getting high and decideding to rob somebody was a voluntary act. Why does the "clean hands doctorine" not apply to this situation as well? This is why I'm confused.
If the order had been put in place 1 month before he was sent away there would be no way of him getting out of it or getting it reduced. Why is it that since the court system and DOR took so long to even get a case against him (when I went in and applyed for CSS before I even had the baby) that they can't do anything? How does this make sense? Do I just have the worst luck of all???? -
06-29-2009, 11:37 AMjmjens2Re: Child Support During IncarcerationThis worked for my neice in Washington state. She asked to take a pay deduction or she would lose her medical for her son and they did it.Quote:
Quoting divemedic
If you are in school, then there are TONS of programs to help single mothers in school. Ask your guidance counselor or even to a search on line.
My niece has her day care paid for while she's in school.
I also applied for lots of scholarships while I was in school and ended up getting an entire year of tuition, books, housing and day care paid for.
Good Luck!