Fence Dispute in Missouri

My question involves real estate located in the State of: Greene County, Mo

Hello,
The house I own for the last 2 years in Greene County Mo (Outside city) is fenced on three sides, Front (Front does go over the line), Right and Left. The fence on the left is actually neighbors fence and is about 5f onto his land. I take care of that area since despite being the neighbors land I would like it to stay clean. In fact I didn't even realize it was his land until he pointed it out as it has never been issue before. It was however disclosed to me by the previous owners when I bought the house, But until recently didn't realize that was what was meant.

Recently I decided that I would like to close in the area and started build a back fence to keep my kids safe. The neigbor has told us he doesn't want us to build a fence onto his land. This leaves me with 2 options, 1 to spend and extra grand and build another left fence section on our land or call his bluff Save a thousand dollars and just connect the last 5ft section of fence. If I do complete it, what are his legal options? What are mine?


Thanks
John

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If I do complete it, what are his legal options?

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Tear down your fence or sue you and ask the courts demand you tear down the fence.

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What are mine?

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if you mean so to allow you to put a fence on his land against his wishes; none.

what would be involved in making me tear it down? My hope is that if I do it, He won't want to make the effort or spend the money to make me take down 1 5ft section of fence that is on a peice of land that I take care of anyways. He'd have to prove it was his land first, wouldn't he?

I was also considering installing it as a swinging gate so that I could easily swing it from being over his property if he does raise a stink, Then efectivly it would never be touching his land. Would that be a better option?

The other issue with building a left fence is that the fenced out peice of property between the fences would become unkept up and become a space rodents, snake, bugs, other pests, these critters would work there way on my property and just plain become a danger to my kids as I am the only one who is willing to take care of it.

Is Adverse Possession not an option?

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e=etechjc;300276]what would be involved in making me tear it down? My hope is that if I do it, He won't want to make the effort or spend the money to make me take down 1 5ft section of fence that is on a peice of land that I take care of anyways.

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Well, if it were me, my pickup and a piece of chain is what I would use. Not much effort there.

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He'd have to prove it was his land first, wouldn't he?

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You really do know where the line is so when you go into court, you are going to be looking pretty bad when asked if you did and why did you build a fence on the neighbors property knowing where the line is.

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I was also considering installing it as a swinging gate so that I could easily swing it from being over his property if he does raise a stink, Then efectivly it would never be touching his land. Would that be a better option?

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no

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The other issue with building a left fence is that the fenced out peice of property between the fences would become unkept up and become a space rodents, snake, bugs, other pests, these critters would work there way on my property and just plain become a danger to my kids as I am the only one who is willing to take care of it.

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If that happens, whoever deals with local ordinances for such things would be contacted and would deal with him.

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Is Adverse Possession not an option?

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NO. he already to told you to stay off his property. That makes the effort to notify you. At this time, anytime you go on to his property, including the strip on your side of the fence, you are actually tresspassing. If you want to play rough, you are on the losing end.


Do it right and legally or be subject to the problems you bring onto yourself.

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Quoting jk

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Well, if it were me, my pickup and a piece of chain is what I would use. Not much effort there.

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He would have to come around the existing fence that is on his property to get to the offending fence with his pickup, damaging my property in the process. Possibly getting shot also since my wife is a bit of a hothead.

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Quoting jk

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You really do know where the line is so when you go into court, you are going to be looking pretty bad when asked if you did and why did you build a fence on the neighbors property knowing where the line is.

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I say I don't beleive him that its his property since the fence that is seperating the 2 properties is where the line is. I only have his word for it and the previous owners word (Which only I know about.). No actual survey has ever been produced, So despite what he says, I think that since I was taking care of the property and the fence seperating the two pieces of land has been there for well over 50 years that the peice of land is mine.

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Quoting jk

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NO. he already to told you to stay off his property. That makes the effort to notify you. At this time, anytime you go on to his property, including the strip on your side of the fence, you are actually tresspassing. If you want to play rough, you are on the losing end.

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Again I don't believe him that its his property, Only have his word.

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Quoting etechjc

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I say I don't beleive him that its his property since the fence that is seperating the 2 properties is where the line is. I only have his word for it and the previous owners word (Which only I know about.). No actual survey has ever been produced, So despite what he says, I think that since I was taking care of the property and the fence seperating the two pieces of land has been there for well over 50 years that the peice of land is mine.

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So why don't you get a survey to find out if what your neighbor is telling you is accurate?

If you were to try to claim ownership of that 5 foot strip by adverse possession, then you would have to take the issue to court and the burden of proof for everything would be on YOU. How do you know that the fence has been there for 50 years? How do you know that you and your prececessors in title have satisfied ALL the elements required for a claim of adverse possession?

The whole thing would cost you many, many times the $1,000 that you're trying to save by not putting up a fence along your property line.

And what's to stop your neighbor from simply tearing down his 50-year old fence? In that case, you'll have to build another one anyway.

I'm not a lawyer (though I was once sued for adverse possession), but it seems to me that you're preparing to get into a fight that you have no chance of winning.

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Quoting VictorD

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So why don't you get a survey to find out if what your neighbor is telling you is accurate?

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Why should I have to if my neighbor is claiming the property is his, Wouldn't he have to prove it, Not me.

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Quoting VictorD

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If you were to try to claim ownership of that 5 foot strip by adverse possession, then you would have to take the issue to court and the burden of proof for everything would be on YOU.

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Proof of what, That I have been the only person to take care of the 5ft x 1000ft peice of land and before me the previous owners, Thats easy to prove. I can have every person that knows me attest to it, the previous owner will attest to it, and the lawn care company that I hired the first summer I was there will attest to it.

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Quoting VictorD

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How do you know that the fence has been there for 50 years? How do you know that you and your prececessors in title have satisfied ALL the elements required for a claim of adverse possession?

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I know the fence has been there for at least 50 years as I have photos of the house being built 50 years ago and the fence was there, Not only was it there but it looks old even then in the pictures. Also the next door neighbor told me so. Not only that the previous owner has owned the house since he had it built and he tells me it was there.

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Quoting VictorD

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Mind you I don't really want to claim adverse possession, I just want to put a 5ft section of fence up closing in my property. Claiming it would be last resort if the neighbor really wanted to fight over it.

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As far as satisfing the elements for adverset possession, I don't know what the elements are to satisfy.

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Quoting VictorD

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The whole thing would cost you many, many times the $1,000 that you're trying to save by not putting up a fence along your property line.

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For pest control reasons (Because I know the neighbor wouldn't cross the fence to mow and keep up, and he wouldn't move his fence), Safety, and just plain principle I would be willing to fight for it if It came down to it.

There are no regulations regarding land upkeep out here.

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Quoting VictorD

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And what's to stop your neighbor from simply tearing down his 50-year old fence? In that case, you'll have to build another one anyway.

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Tearing down his 50year old, 1000ft long fence that keeps his cows and horses in, I just don't see this old guy doing that. For one he would lose his livestock, for two the it would cost him to much money to rebuild a new one on his section property.

I don't know much about regulations out here, But I do know that county ordinances legally require him to keep a fence up as long as he has farm animals.

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Quoting VictorD

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I'm not a lawyer (though I was once sued for adverse possession), but it seems to me that you're preparing to get into a fight that you have no chance of winning.

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Why do I have no chance of winning it?

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Why do I have no chance of winning it?

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How would you have a chance of winning it?

For starters, you do not have enough money to go to court, where you would lose in any case. If you don't have the money for a fence or a survey, you don't have the money for a lawyer.

You bought the property knowing where the line was per the neighbor and the person you bought it from. That is acquiescence in a boundary line and legally it's pretty much tops. You have mowed a couple of feet of grass for a couple of years and now you think you own it?

Why do you think you own it?

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Quoting LandSurveyor

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How would you have a chance of winning it?

For starters, you do not have enough money to go to court, where you would lose in any case. If you don't have the money for a fence or a survey, you don't have the money for a lawyer.

You bought the property knowing where the line was per the neighbor and the person you bought it from. That is acquiescence in a boundary line and legally it's pretty much tops. You have mowed a couple of feet of grass for a couple of years and now you think you own it?

Why do you think you own it?

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How do you know how much money I do or do not have? Just because I don't want to spend $1K on a fence, Doesn't mean I don't have the money, Please don't make assumptions on how much I do or don't have, Trust me you have no clue. If you actually read the whole thread, The $1000 is not the only reason I don't want to build the left fence.

Still I say exactly how will I lose, please tell me.

Nothing actually in writing other that the disclosure statement vaugley refrencing the fence, They would have to find the original disclosure signed by me to prove it. Otherwise it comes down to he said she said. And I say I own it.

And Just because I mowed, filled pot holes, picked up trash, paid for tree trimming, and generally upkept 5,000sqft of land at my own great expense and used the land like it was my own until now without any objections from the neighbor or anyone else for that matter, I think I own it and challenge them, you, or anyone else to prove otherwise.

It seems be my mistake on this forum that I admitted the knowledge that I owned the land and that immediatly blinded everyone to anything else. I won't make that mistake again here or anywhere else.

Thank you guys for the help. I will finish the the fence and tell him to provide me with proof that the land is his, If he does I will take it to court.

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How do you know how much money I do or do not have?

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1. Your inability to hire a lawyer.

2. Your inability to hire a surveyor.

3. Your inability to afford a fence.

Your complete inability to accept any advice which does not fully agree with your proposed theft of someone else's land.

You came here looking for expert advice and you have probably all that you are going to get for free until the public defender is assigned to you or your gun totin' wife.