Should Custody Be Given to the Father

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: wv

Hello all,

My 8yr old Step-son is a bright,sweet and funny child.But he's not treated as the prize I feel he is,at least not by his bio mom who has physical custody of him,(The mother and father have join custody) I know his dad(my hubby) feels the same way. Here are some examples of why we feel she is unfit.

1. We heard recently that she smacked him in the mouth.This actually came from my step-son when my husband received a call from school about his bad behavior. She has always had anger issues and because of them has had CPS called on her before(2x that we know of),but nothing changed.He's told me in the past that shes pushed him down before as well,but I didnt report it because I wasnt sure it would do much good,considering they didnt make a change before,looking back i should have anyway.

2.She was a heroine addict(she verbally admitted this to me,although its not on tape),she was an alcoholic(may still be it seems)and smoked pot quite a bit from what I understood.She has always needed something but would not stay on meds.She told me verbally that she has a type of depression,post traumatic stress disorder and anxiety....all of which she should be treating with meds but isnt/well at least wasnt from what my step-son said at one point.

3.She forgets to give my step-son his medications at least once a week,typically a monday and is practically impossible to get ahold of when the school calls to confirm that he hasnt had his meds so they can go ahead and dose him.He is on meds for ADHD,So in turn he misses out on a good and productive day.

4.My step-sons behavior at school is erratic,he throws fits of anger wher he throws objects(chairs,shoes,books) This has not happened at our house,so its shocking to hear.And lately hes added cussing the teachers as well.His mother still lets him have videogame time,shortened but to me shes still letting him believe that his behavior was no big deal by allowing him to have his priveleges the same.Although thats not necessarily reason to take custody but his erratic behavior to me,may be a sign that he sees this at home and feels that its normal to act this way elsewhere.

Now I need to know how we go about getting custody,we feel he would fare much better being in a home with two consitent,nurturing,non-violent parents.
Does calling CPS do much good?Or is there someone else we should be calling? Does bringing up his behavior at school do much good,would a lawyer be able to use that in a custody case? What sort of things can we do,to make a strong case?Is a P.I a good idea,to me it seems like one of the only ways to get some hard evidence. If CPS has been called on her more times than we know of,are we/more my husband since he's the father, allowed to ask CPS if and why she was called on?

Thanks so much for any and all help,were becoming desperate because were scared that S.S is in a world of trouble(physically and mentally) if he has to conitinue to live with his bio mom.

I say this only to make sure you don't trip over your own feet.

You are not mom. She is not "bio mom"... just mom. There is no "we" in your husband's custody battle and your ideas, notions and judgments of how the parents parent their child is really not worth very much in court.

In fact, I doubt you will be allowed in the courtroom when the custody is reworked.

I am a step parent. I understand the emotional investment. However, you have to realize that you are a legal stranger to the child. As such, you can seriously and negatively impact the case if you start acting as if you wish to replace or minimize mom or her importance in the child's life.

1. Parents are allowed to use corporal punishment. If CPS has been called and no charges were filed, it will lead the court to believe the child isn't being abused.

2. Unless you are a doctor, your assessment of her medical condition is worthless. If you have evidence of this behavior that a court will accept, have your husband bring it to the knowledge of the court. Rumors mean nothing.

3. An excellent point for your husband to bring up.

4. Unless you are a professional qualified to speak on parenting and it's impact on the child's development, your assessment is worthless. Parents are allowed to parent as they choose to parent. Because it is not your style of parenting doesn't make it illegal.

Your HUSBAND's recourse is to go to court and try again.

Know going in that your chances of being named in a custody agreement are, to use Aaron's term, vanishingly small.

Thanks CYJeff for the reply but Im left with some confusion and not many answers.

First of all I would never in a million years want to replace "bio mom" BUT I am step-mom and have been part of his and my husbands life since he was a baby.I do not expect to be in the court and could care less anyhow, but fully support both my husband and my step-son.And if my husband feels alone and helpless and since obviously he is my other half Im going to be there with ideas and ways to help(not necessarily known to all we keep that private),he also sucks at navigating the net so thats why Im here. Honestly I have not done anything and will not do anything to hurt any case my husband may try to create,and I stand by him 100%.

Im confused as to what corporal punishment is by definition....I didnt realize pushing a child to the point of falling and slapping that child in the mouth was ok...I thought that was considered abuse! Where have I been?? And like I said specifically,we didnt call CPS like we probably should have.And with number 4,like I said again,specifically,I realize that her crappy parenting style isnt grounds to take custody but his erratic behavior,seems like a red flag especially if she cannot control her own anger and now its showing in him.And no Im not a doctor and it was NOT a rumor that she has depression,post traumatic stress and anxiety,she actually said that to me as well as letting me know that she fought an addiction to heroine(while she had custody of S.S).What I wanna know is how do we prove these things? I know her saying them to doesnt do much good uless of course I had taped her saying so.Does he need to see a counselor and maybe theres something they could bring to light in court.
And heres the rest of my previous questions that havnt been answered yet.Does calling CPS do much good?Or is there someone else we should be calling? Does bringing up his behavior at school do much good,would a lawyer be able to use that in a custody case? What sort of things can we do,to make a strong case?Is a P.I a good idea,to me it seems like one of the only ways to get some hard evidence. If CPS has been called on her more times than we know of,are we/more my husband since he's the father, allowed to ask CPS if and why she was called on?


Now if anyone else has some good ideas let me first say that my plate is already full with one child(with whom Im quite content),but I would never turn my S.S away,but Im not asking these questions because I wanna take bio moms place.So lets turn the focus away from whos asking questions and back to the important questions Ive asked and my step-sons well-being.This up and down cycle has gone on way too long and my hubby is sick of it.:wallbang:So when Im here asking questions,its for him. Marriage is about being a team and I realize not everyone understands that but we are one.

Quote:

---

Quoting browneyedmom

---

Thanks CYJeff for the reply but Im left with some confusion and not many answers.

First of all I would never in a million years want to replace "bio mom" BUT I am step-mom and have been part of his and my husbands life since he was a baby.I do not expect to be in the court and could care less anyhow, but fully support both my husband and my step-son.And if my husband feels alone and helpless and since obviously he is my other half Im going to be there with ideas and ways to help(not necessarily known to all we keep that private),he also sucks at navigating the net so thats why Im here. Honestly I have not done anything and will not do anything to hurt any case my husband may try to create,and I stand by him 100%.

---

Every time you used the word "we" in your statement, you hurt your husband's case and strengthened the mother's.

I, again, am not saying you aren't emotionally invested. I am saying that courts are very clear on this point and it is a line you don't want to cross.

Quote:

---

Im confused as to what corporal punishment is by definition....I didnt realize pushing a child to the point of falling and slapping that child in the mouth was ok...I thought that was considered abuse! Where have I been?? And like I said specifically,we didnt call CPS like we probably should have

---

Since CPS investigated and didn't charge anyone, we have to believe that what she was doing did not pass the benchmark.

Quote:

---

And with number 4,like I said again,specifically,I realize that her crappy parenting style isnt grounds to take custody but his erratic behavior,seems like a red flag especially if she cannot control her own anger and now its showing in him.

---

But, regardless, he is her child and she has the legal right to parent him as she believes is in his best interest.

Quote:

---

And no Im not a doctor and it was NOT a rumor that she has depression,post traumatic stress and anxiety,she actually said that to me as well as letting me know that she fought an addiction to heroine(while she had custody of S.S).What I wanna know is how do we prove these things?

---

People say things all the time.

Sometimes just to see if the other party will say an easily to rebut statement in court.

Proving it is difficult unless you are a witness to the addiction.

Quote:

---

I know her saying them to doesnt do much good uless of course I had taped her saying so.Does he need to see a counselor and maybe theres something they could bring to light in court.

---

I would use the testimony of a child against a parent as a very last resort.

That experience could damage him more than anything else we have discussed.

Quote:

---

And heres the rest of my previous questions that havnt been answered yet.Does calling CPS do much good?Or is there someone else we should be calling?

---

They would be the proper authority.

Quote:

---

Does bringing up his behavior at school do much good,would a lawyer be able to use that in a custody case?

---

Sure, bring it up... but without an expert witness that can tie the behavior to a specific causal set, it may be a long road.

Quote:

---

What sort of things can we do,to make a strong case?Is a P.I a good idea,to me it seems like one of the only ways to get some hard evidence. If CPS has been called on her more times than we know of,are we/more my husband since he's the father, allowed to ask CPS if and why she was called on?

---

PI's do work.. but I have always felt their introduction in custody battles as being slightly sleazy.

Like you are spying on mom until you find SOMETHING to use.

Quote:

---

Now if anyone else has some good ideas let me first say that my plate is already full with one child(with whom Im quite content),but I would never turn my S.S away,but Im not asking these questions because I wanna take bio moms place.

---

I understood what you were saying.

As I said, I am a step dad myself. I am just cautioning you as to how a court may see the words you are using.

Quote:

---

So lets turn the focus away from whos asking questions and back to the important questions Ive asked and my step-sons well-being.This up and down cycle has gone on way too long and my hubby is sick of it.:wallbang:So when Im here asking questions,its for him. Marriage is about being a team and I realize not everyone understands that but we are one.

---

Take a deep breath.

I am not saying you don't love your hubby or step son. I am just trying to give you the lay of the land.

If you go into court and start telling the judge what you believe is wrong with mom's parenting, the court will shut you AND THE CASE down so fast you will think there was a natural disaster.

Step parents can only HURT a custody case... by being patient and quiet... practicing what you and your husband say and making sure that YOUR wishes and YOUR observations are actually stated as your husband's wishes and observations, you will be fine.

This is experience talking.

Yes, it's your experience. But it's not legal knowledge, let alone legal knowledge specific to her situation and state. Stepparents can play an important, positive role, and judges can appreciate that role. Making a stepparent an important part of a child's household is not something that threatens a parent's custody. The word "we" is not toxic to custody litigation.

Getting back to the question, yes, it's a good idea to consult a custody lawyer about the situation. I don't see anything in your post that says to me, "This is an abuse or neglect case," as opposed to something your husband should attempt to resolve through the custody court; your husband can discuss this in more detail with his lawyer. Calling CPS and having them deem the report unfounded, or worse as a malicious effort to influence a long-term custody dispute, can blow up in your face when the matter gets to court.

Thanks cyjeff,your answers were very thorough and your advice is greatly appreciated.The only reason why I keep saying we is because Im talking to everyone on the forums Im not in a courtroom talking.But when it comes to a courtroom Im very aware that Im kinda behind the scenes in that situation and totally understand and respect that.And like I said if it goes to court I will not sit in the courtroom unless im allowed to be and only if my husband just wants to see me there as moral support but I wont speak unless asked to speak.I understand that from talking to a lawyer in the past when my s.s was a bit younger.At that point I was only 20 or so and very new to the legal side of things.Now Im older and a bit wiser,maybe not a ton but a bit lol:p

Again CPS wasnt called at least not to my knowledge about the things I stated below with the pushing we should have called but didnt.The slapping in the mouth literally happened just the other day.And her parenting is up to her until it turns abusive,correct?Everyone has different parenting styles but when it takes a violent turn,is when one should worry.And Im curious if the displays of anger are red flags and possibly he's showing this anger because she has crossed a line and if so how does one go about proving that,if thats the case.And Im unsure of why this only happens at school,its not happened here for a very long time.Its been so frustrating to hear that he was bad in school and wondering why and now we hear about how he's being treated at home,and maybe thats why.
Im learning that its hard to bring proof to light and Im not sure CPS is enough,seems to me like call after call can be made to them and of course it doesnt always make a difference and Ive heard many cases of abuse go on without extensive investigating and a child ends up dead.Especially if the parent/s in question are quite good at keeping up with appearances.Would the reports that have been made be brought up in court?And again does my husband have any rights to know how many reports have been made to CPS and what the circumstances were??He is this childs father so I would think that naturally he would but then again I might be wrong.:confused:

If he did end up seeing a counselor,(which to be quite honest Im sure probably should have been done a couple years ago for his own well being and to have a way to express his frustrations/emotions to someone who isnt family or a friend and is an expert) and they found things that he said to be questionable and reflects her parenting as abusive/neglectful,would they be able to submit that info to the court without my S.S being involved and without him having to testify.Because I completely agree with you,that it could be very damaging to have to go against his own mother in court and thats not in his best interest.

Does bringing up his behavior at school do much good,would a lawyer be able to use that in a custody case?

Quote:

---

Sure, bring it up... but without an expert witness that can tie the behavior to a specific causal set, it may be a long road.

---

Would an expert witness be a teacher?Or is that not enough?If not please let me know of a few examples.

And if worst comes to worst and we have to use a PI which at this point its becoming kinda desperate because were not sure of anyother way to gain evidence,especially the kind that holds up in court. Is there anything you suggest against using in court? I know they may seem sleazy in a sense but I think im beginning to understand why people use them.Neglectful/abusive moms arent always stupid, they know how manipulate and cover thier tracks.And I feel like my s.s' mother knows that it would be very hard for my d.h to gain custody as most moms do.

Im sorry if I was harder on you earlier its not that I didnt respect what you were trying to say,but Im seriously frustrated with this situation because she has continued to cause my s.s emotional stress and the physically lashing out hasnt stopped either and theres a lot more that I havent revealed to you. There was a time when my husband had temporary custody(unfortunately not through the court) and we just wished she would either find a better path and do what she needed to,to be a better person and in turn,become a better mother or that if she wasnt going to,to let him live with us.She got pregnant and was with a new man and felt like she wanted to mother again,now shes back to her old ways.Myself and hubby wishes she would grow up and realize what she has in front of her and treat this child better so he can grow into a balanced,confident and happy human being.But so far things are not good at all.
When I talked to him on the phone today and he asked me to please tell his mommy not to hit him anymore,because it makes it worse,my heart broke into a million pieces,I told him I would talk to her,he caught me off guard and when he said that she had slapped him in the mouth I was instantly in my "mommy protective mode" And honestly if I could help it I would but I have a daughter as well and this is just a natural instinct,but I know I cant ask her that,I know if I say one word to her Im going to get an earfull and its just going to hurt him in the end because she will probably lash out verbally again towards him and tell him not to say anything to anyone.Which honestly has probably already happened and thats why Im wondering what we can do to prove these things.And the reason in case your wondering why he was talking to me in the first place was because my dh got a second phonecall from school and dh was starting to get frustrated and feeling like nothing he was saying made a difference so he looked at me and handed the phone to me and said "See if you can get through to him",and I think its because I can usually help my s.s to understand all sides of the situation without getting upset.So I got on the phone with him and talked to him about his behaviors and the consequences and asked him what he thought those consequences would be and if he wanted to be in anymore trouble at school and home and he went on to tell me about what happened the day before when he got in toruble at school,and then when he got home his mom slapped him in the mouth. I asked him what was it that he needed or wanted?I said there has to be a reason why your getting so angry,what do you need?What do you want? And thats when he went on to say he just wanted his mom to stop hitting him,and he wanted me to talk to her.....and like an idiot I said I would :wallbang: And deep down I still wish I or my husband could,because he doesnt deserve to have noone standing up for him,hearing the pain in his voice and knowing theres nothing I can do and probably not a lot his own father can do,hurts a lot.
We dont want the next phonecall we get to be from the school saying that he's done something even more violent to someone or to himself.Or I dont want him to come to our house saying hes been smacked around again.This has to stop somehow someway.So if theres anything you think we may be missing or anything else that could help please let us know.

An expert witness is usually going to be a psychologist or other mental health professional you pay to evaluate the case and testify in court. Your husband can talk to his lawyer about using an expert and the cost of expert testimony.

If you want us to respond to what you say, please be more concise and use more paragraphs. It's hard to read giant blocks of text. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Quoting Mr. Knowitall

---

Yes, it's your experience. But it's not legal knowledge, let alone legal knowledge specific to her situation and state. Stepparents can play an important, positive role, and judges can appreciate that role. Making a stepparent an important part of a child's household is not something that threatens a parent's custody. The word "we" is not toxic to custody litigation.

---

Judges are VERY resistant to step parents that try to push the legal parent out of their role. Unless the parent is deemed unfit in a court of law (WHICH HAS NOT HAPPENED HERE), the parent is allowed to parent his/her child at the exclusion of ALL third parties...

ESPECIALLY when that parent is also the child's custodial parent.

If something as seemingly innocent as the OP called "Mom" by the child happens, it can blow up in her husband's case. The step parent, regardless of the emotional attachment, has exactly the self same legal rights to the child as I (or you or any other stranger) do(es)... none.

The thoughts, wishes and accusations of a legal stranger to a custodial parent are NOT going to win the OP's husband's case.

Quote:

---

Getting back to the question, yes, it's a good idea to consult a custody lawyer about the situation. I don't see anything in your post that says to me, "This is an abuse or neglect case," as opposed to something your husband should attempt to resolve through the custody court; your husband can discuss this in more detail with his lawyer. Calling CPS and having them deem the report unfounded, or worse as a malicious effort to influence a long-term custody dispute, can blow up in your face when the matter gets to court.

---

Agreed.

Not to say that CPS shouldn't be called if necessary... but only when necessary... as MK said.

Quote:

---

Quoting browneyedmom

---

Thanks cyjeff,your answers were very thorough and your advice is greatly appreciated.The only reason why I keep saying we is because Im talking to everyone on the forums Im not in a courtroom talking.But when it comes to a courtroom Im very aware that Im kinda behind the scenes in that situation and totally understand and respect that.And like I said if it goes to court I will not sit in the courtroom unless im allowed to be and only if my husband just wants to see me there as moral support but I wont speak unless asked to speak.I understand that from talking to a lawyer in the past when my s.s was a bit younger.At that point I was only 20 or so and very new to the legal side of things.Now Im older and a bit wiser,maybe not a ton but a bit lol:p

---

I figured your lawyer gave you the same advice.

I just want to do everything I can to help you win. Court rooms are very much like theaters. Everyone has a specific role and lines to say.

Quote:

---

Again CPS wasnt called at least not to my knowledge about the things I stated below with the pushing we should have called but didnt.The slapping in the mouth literally happened just the other day.And her parenting is up to her until it turns abusive,correct

---

Yup.

Quote:

---

Everyone has different parenting styles but when it takes a violent turn,is when one should worry.And Im curious if the displays of anger are red flags and possibly he's showing this anger because she has crossed a line and if so how does one go about proving that,if thats the case.And Im unsure of why this only happens at school,its not happened here for a very long time.Its been so frustrating to hear that he was bad in school and wondering why and now we hear about how he's being treated at home,and maybe thats why.

---

I agree that there is definitely something going on... but I am not a professional either.

Have you had him interviewed by a therapist?

Quote:

---

Does bringing up his behavior at school do much good,would a lawyer be able to use that in a custody case?
Would an expert witness be a teacher?Or is that not enough?If not please let me know of a few examples.

---

MK is right on target... ask the attorney for a reference.

This will not be cheap... but a pro that can handle him/herself in court is worth every dime.

Quote:

---

And if worst comes to worst and we have to use a PI which at this point its becoming kinda desperate because were not sure of anyother way to gain evidence,especially the kind that holds up in court. Is there anything you suggest against using in court? I know they may seem sleazy in a sense but I think im beginning to understand why people use them.Neglectful/abusive moms arent always stupid, they know how manipulate and cover thier tracks.And I feel like my s.s' mother knows that it would be very hard for my d.h to gain custody as most moms do.

---

I would definitely ask the attorney about this.

Quote:

---

Im sorry if I was harder on you earlier its not that I didnt respect what you were trying to say,but Im seriously frustrated with this situation because she has continued to cause my s.s emotional stress and the physically lashing out hasnt stopped either and theres a lot more that I havent revealed to you.

---

This is an emotional time.

Don't worry... my hide is thicker than that and I knew where the frustration was coming from.

It is never easy to be told that the very emotional situation in is, to a very large part, out of your personal control.

Quote:

---

There was a time when my husband had temporary custody(unfortunately not through the court) and we just wished she would either find a better path and do what she needed to,to be a better person and in turn,become a better mother or that if she wasnt going to,to let him live with us.She got pregnant and was with a new man and felt like she wanted to mother again,now shes back to her old ways.Myself and hubby wishes she would grow up and realize what she has in front of her and treat this child better so he can grow into a balanced,confident and happy human being.But so far things are not good at all.

---

Ask the attorney about asking for drug tests.

Quote:

---

We dont want the next phonecall we get to be from the school saying that he's done something even more violent to someone or to himself.Or I dont want him to come to our house saying hes been smacked around again.This has to stop somehow someway.So if theres anything you think we may be missing or anything else that could help please let us know.

---

I recommend STRONGLY the enrollment of the boy in a vigorous and disciplined sporting activity. Not only will it give all that energy an outlet, but will also build his self esteem and self worth.

Thank you Mr. Knowitall for your response as well.
If my s.s was pushed down by his mother and was slapped in the mouth by his mother and this can be proven,do you consider that to be abuse?I see no reason for him to lie.And I wouldnt consider this to be a legal way of disciplining a child.
And Im not sure that her fogetting his meds once a wk is neglect but it does hinder his performance in school.
We have for quite sometime heard my s.s tell us things that we knew we could do nothing about but has worried us to death,heres some examples: like her at one point drinking too much and that she was gonna quit(why would a 7 yr old know that?),or that her boyfriend threw something at her and cut her foot while they argued,he told us about another incident with a diff boyfriend who drank too much and threw up outside the car they were all in,ss said she verbalized to him shes needed a break from s.s or she was gonna give him away to strangers and trust me the list goes on.But again my hubbys hands are tied because theres no proof that those things happened,thats kinda why we feel like a PI would be helpful because we cant exactly watch her.