My question involves traffic court in the State of: California
Here are the details of my case: In was about 11:30pm. As i approached a 4 way stop sign, i slowed down to almost a complete stop. I looked both ways and safety looked for approaching cars. Right as i started to accelerate and cop car turned on their headlights to the right of me and then proceeded to follow me a block and then pulled me over and told me that i had not stopped completely at the following stop sign.
Now the fact is perhaps i didn't come to a complete stop where i stop for 3 seconds. But i was very safe, the officer even stated "you were going very slow and safe, but you need to come to a complete stop" is what the officer had stated. Also the cop had her lights off until i crossed the intersection, which seems like some kind of trap.
Should i just ask for traffic school? and pay the fine. Thing is i got a ticket about 14 months ago. According to california traffic school, you have to wait 18 months until you can attend traffic school again i do not want to receive a point on my record.
Therefore Im thinking about doing a trial by declaration. Where i would write something along the lines of the following:
"i put my car in neutral when i brake to save gas, there was a slight decline at the stop sign, so after i stopped completely, there was a slight roll before i proceeded to shift into drive which made it seem like it was a rolling stop."
I greatly appreciate any suggestions that i could use to help me write a letter to rule in my favor. or any comments as well. I just graduated college and I am working only part time due to lay off. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks
Rolling Stop California
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03-09-2009, 01:41 PMchris003Rolling Stop California
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03-09-2009, 01:54 PMjkRe: Rolling Stop Californiamake up your mind. Either you stopped or you didn;t.Quote:
Quoting chris003
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03-10-2009, 11:42 AMEWYLTJRe: Rolling Stop CaliforniaI don't know if that is a good idea... isn't it illegal to "coast" in neutral?Quote:
Quoting chris003
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03-10-2009, 01:46 PMblewisRe: Rolling Stop California
I don't know about CA, but it certainly is in WA:
BarryQuote:
Quoting RCW 46.61.630
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03-10-2009, 05:13 PMchris003Re: Rolling Stop California
If this is the case for putting my car in neutral is in fact illegal. Do you guys think my best bet would be to ask permission for traffic school? What would be the best way to go about this process? Write a letter stating im guilty and request the option of taking traffic school? (though ive taken traffic school 14 months ago therefore am a little worried they may deny my request). Do you think calling the court to request it would be better?
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03-15-2009, 08:54 AMThat GuyRe: Rolling Stop CaliforniaI have not heard of any vehicle code section that prohibits coasting, but, and with all due respect, I have heard of a few penal code sections and "moral code sections" that might suggest one shouldn't lie to begin with but to lie in a court of law and while one is under oath!Quote:
Quoting chris003
What is even worse, is that even if it was OK to do that, coasting, rolling, sputtering or hauling butt through a stop sign are deemed to be violations of vehicle code section 22450(a) which reads as follows:
22450. (a) The driver of any vehicle approaching a stop sign at the entrance to, or within, an intersection shall stop at a limit line, if marked, otherwise before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection.
If there is no limit line or crosswalk, the driver shall stop at the entrance to the intersecting roadway.
So you put yourself through the tedious process of a TBWD, and in it, you make up a defense that is not only incorrect, but one which will not leave any reasonable person that you may have not committed the violation as charged.
The options that you have are as follows:
A. Pay the citation, take the point and learn the lesson that a rolling stop is not a legal stop. OR...
B. Contact the court and inquire as to whether that particular court offers what is referred to as a "2nd Offender Traffic School" <Some Judges make it readily available, others will consider it while yet others will not approve it at all> If the court offers it then keep in mind that you cannot request it from the court clerk, as only a Judge can make it available. So you would appear in court for your trial, plead "Guilty", the politly and graciously ask the Judge to allow you to take the "2nd offender Traffic school course.
Here is how the two programs are different:
Regular Traffic School (in most cases) can be requested from the court clerk -<>- 2nd offender Traffic School can only be requested from and approved by the Judge
Regular Traffic school is 8 hours -<>- 2nd offender Traffic School is 12 hours (taken in a classroom setting over 2 days)
Regular Traffic School can be taken in a class room setting, online or through a video course -<>- 2nd offender Traffic School must be taken in a class room setting.
Regular Traffic School, and upon successful completion, and after submitting proof of such to the court by the due date will cause the associated citation to be dismissed as if it had never occurred to begin with which also means that no violation points will be added to your record -<>- 2nd offender Traffic School, and if anyone were to check your driving record, they can see the citation as having been dismissed (so it does not disappear completely)... And it will not have any violation points associated with it so theoretically, your insurance premium should not be affected by it.
here's how they are similar:
The administrative fee for both program is the same.
You must wait for the court to approve your traffic School request (both programs) prior to attending or taking the program...
They both are boring as heck but for those of us who still do not know what a complete stop is, they are a necessary evil. Just kidding you....
Sorry for the long post! -
03-15-2009, 09:21 AMThat GuyRe: Rolling Stop CaliforniaI have to correct myself... California Vehicle Code section 21710 reads as follows:Quote:
Quoting That Guy
The driver of a motor vehicle when traveling on down grade upon any highway shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in neutral.
So your back up story would suggest more guilt that innocence. -
03-16-2009, 01:34 PMchris003Re: Rolling Stop California
Hey thanks "That Guy" I really appreciate all the insight and info you have given me. Yeah after reading most of the posts i decided i will ask for 2nd offense traffic school would probably be in my best interests. Now i know i have to ask a Judge to receive permission for the traffic school, but can i just write a letter (trial of declaration) stating im guilty and would like to request traffic school. Would this be an option? I would rather not go to court because it is time consuming i would rather not have to miss school.
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03-17-2009, 08:39 PMThat GuyRe: Rolling Stop CaliforniaA Trial By Declaration (TBD or TBWD) is usually used by a defendant to argue as to why they think they are not guilty... Although I see no reason as to why you couldn't use it as you described.Quote:
Quoting chris003
However, and considering the fact that you are not there before the Judge asking him/her for the 2nd offender traffic school, and unless it is an option that this particular court offers defendant, I would venture to guess that your request for the 12 hr school would be denied. Your chances are better if you appear in court and ask for it in person. But that is just my own personal view on court proceedings. Others may disagree.
Good luck... -
03-19-2009, 11:49 AMchris003Re: Rolling Stop California
Alrite that's very true. Thanks for all your input "that guy" if i havent said it already. I guess going to court wouldn't seem like such a bad idea then. In that case, i will go to court to plead guilty and kindly request 2nd offense traffic school. I also have a chance that the officer will not show up. In that case i would win automatically right? Im going to the pasadena court, I have heard others say they have received 2nd offense traffic school from them before, so hopefully if worse comes to it, i should at least receive that.