Girlfriend and Sister Caught Shoplifting, Need Some Advice

My question involves criminal law for the state of: Washington

I apologize if this is long but I want to be as thorough as possible, We do not know what my sister and my girlfriend are being charged for yet. I have posted this elsewhere but mixed the story up for various reasons. This will be the truthful story, I really need some help here. But first I think you may want a little background on both my sister and my girlfriend.

-My sister: Used to be a good person, straight A student and once a world class athlete. She has been on the wrong path for a long time now, my parents are divorced and she has been living with her mom while I have been living with my dad. My mother will not do anything about her behavior and she does not respect me anymore. Clean record, but it wouldn't surprise me if she has done something like this before.

-My girlfriend: Used to live in the state of California, she was sexually assaulted multiple times while living there and it has left her mentally weak. She has only pressed charges once and moved up to Washington. She has had a hard time both getting a Job and making friends. She has been utterly desperate to make a friend since she has been here. Also has clean record, but she has never done anything like this in her life.

Anyway, her and my sister decided to go shopping one night while I was at school taking my evening classes. My sister suggested trying to steal clothes from a large retail store. Well, they got caught doing it. My girlfriend had roughly $100.00 worth of merchandise and my sister had around $230.00 worth of merchandise, My girlfriend is eighteen and my sister is sixteen.

My girlfriend told me that both herself and my sister were cooperative and admitted to the crime. They were detained for a period of two hours before the police arrived. Now, generally this seems normal except for one problem. My girlfriend told me that even AFTER they admitted to the crime and were detained a man in his late forties was interrogating them using very strong language in a belligerent tone. He was at times screaming at my girlfriend if she tried to speak with him. I will not quote what she told me because the language is too strong but I can give some examples:

-He suggested that she become a prostitute.

-He suggested that she should sell the stolen merchandise for money, then use the said money to purchase a hard-core drug.

-He said vulgar comments about her living conditions. This was the basis for most of the attacks.

-He said sexually explicit things regarding both her and myself (I was not there, If I had been I would have stopped this mess before it started)

-He suggested that she should get a low end job, then elaborated on this with a vulgar, and outright mean comment on her intelligence as well as the mentally disabled.

While he is tearing my girlfriend apart, who is already scared out of her mind and in tears. He just left my sister alone.. as if she wasn't even there.

Next, my girlfriend told me that the store employees told them that if they did not have $250.00 worth of merchandise TOGETHER then the cops would not have to be called. Unfortunately since my sister had around $250.00 herself the police were called. Now, I have been up till around three in the morning for the past couple nights researching laws/shoplifting etc. But I have a few questions..

- During my research I came across RCW 9A.56.350 (Organized Retail Theft) which states:

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Commits theft of property with a value of at least two hundred fifty dollars from a mercantile establishment with an accomplice

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Now, the store employees said that the cops will not have to be called if the value of the merchandise they had together did not exceed $250.00, seeing as my sister had about $250.00 by herself the cops had to be called. Does this mean that it is probable they will be charged with Organized Retail Theft?


- I also came across RCW 9A.56.050 (Theft in the third degree) which states:

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(1) A person is guilty of theft in the third degree if he or she commits theft of property or services which (a) does not exceed two hundred and fifty dollars in value, or (b) includes ten or more merchandise pallets, or ten or more beverage crates, or a combination of ten or more merchandise pallets and beverage crates.

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As I said before both my sister and my girlfriend did not have merchandise over $250.00 but both of their values of stolen merchandise combined is exceeding $250.00 is it probable they will be charged with theft in the third degree?


-Next I looked at RCW 9A.56.040 (Theft in the second degree) which states:

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(1) A person is guilty of theft in the second degree if he or she commits theft of:

(a) Property or services which exceed(s) two hundred fifty dollars in value but does not exceed one thousand five hundred dollars in value, other than a firearm as defined in RCW 9.41.010 or a motor vehicle

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Since the value of stolen merchandise between both my sister and my girlfriend exceeds $250.00 what is the probability of them being charged with theft in the second degree?

- Will my sister and my girlfriend be tried separately or together?

-When will my girlfriend or my sister be allowed to ask for a court appointed attorney? Also, will I be able to speak with the court appointed attorney regarding this subject?

Lastly, I was thinking of filing a complaint with the manager of the said retail store about the incident with the man in his late forties interrogating my girlfriend. However, I do not want to do anything that may cause the store to take greater action against my girlfriend. Nor, do I want to do anything that may hinder her defense in court. Should I file a complaint or not? Also, could this be considered a lawsuit?

I apologize if I used any words out of context or if I am wrong about certain points, it has been a long couple days. I don't think I can handle having both my girlfriend and my sister incarcerated at the same time.


Links to laws quoted above:
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Organized Retail Theft (RCW 9A.56.350)
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.56.350

Theft in the Third Degree (RCW 9A.56.050)
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.56.050

Theft in the Second Degree (RCW 9A.56.040)
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.56.050

Okay, I am going to ignore the entire first three quarters of that because YOU don't know what happened or what was said.

you are hearing third hand.. and I doubt VERY much any of that stuff was said in the way you think it was said.

Those rooms are video taped.

Second, stop your researching. On the tickets the two BFF's received or will receive will be the statutes that they are charged under.

When you find out what they are, let us know so we can help.

Oh, one last thing.

STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM THIS CASE.

You are a legal stranger to your girlfriend and NOT the guardian of your sister. Therefore, the BEST your direct involvement in the case will do is nothing... odds are, it will REALLY screw it up and you may find yourself facing your own charges.

You are not a knight on a white horse. You are just some guy that was told a story by a sister and a girlfriend and is getting all upset about it.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. I know, I know... they wouldn't lie to you... yes, they would steal hundreds of dollars from a retailer, but they wouldn't LIE, right?

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Quoting cyjeff

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Oh, one last thing.

STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM THIS CASE.

You are a legal stranger to your girlfriend and NOT the guardian of your sister. Therefore, the BEST your direct involvement in the case will do is nothing... odds are, it will REALLY screw it up and you may find yourself facing your own charges.

You are not a knight on a white horse. You are just some guy that was told a story by a sister and a girlfriend and is getting all upset about it.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. I know, I know... they wouldn't lie to you... yes, they would steal hundreds of dollars from a retailer, but they wouldn't LIE, right?

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Why do you need to be so hostile? You expect me to hear about someone saying these things about my girlfriend and myself and NOT want to do anything?

I am not claiming to be a "knight on a white horse" as you say, I would just like to know the rights of my loved ones and what is going to happen.

Jeff is right you do her more harm than good if you get involved. Want to help? Hire her an Attorney

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Quoting Prog_Student

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Why do you need to be so hostile? You expect me to hear about someone saying these things about my girlfriend and myself and NOT want to do anything?

I am not claiming to be a "knight on a white horse" as you say, I would just like to know the rights of my loved ones and what is going to happen.

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Because I could already see what you were getting yourself ready to do. You were going to march down to the store and demand to talk to this person so that you could confront him.

One, he doesn't have to talk to you. This will further stoke your fire.

Two, you will, eventually, say something stupid like "let's go outside and see how you handle yourself against someone that ISN'T a woman" and then you would find yourself on the receiving end of trespassing and harassment charges.

The store owes you, personally, NOTHING. No information, no opportunity to talk to employees and no unconditional access to their private property.

As we say in the south, going down there and "bowing up" on the LP guy is a terrible decision... and one that will be used against the two shoplifters in THEIR case.

After all, you would be trying to intimidate a witness in a criminal investigation, now wouldn't you?

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Quoting cyjeff

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Because I could already see what you were getting yourself ready to do. You were going to march down to the store and demand to talk to this person so that you could confront him.

One, he doesn't have to talk to you. This will further stoke your fire.

Two, you will, eventually, say something stupid like "let's go outside and see how you handle yourself against someone that ISN'T a woman" and then you would find yourself on the receiving end of trespassing and harassment charges.

The store owes you, personally, NOTHING. No information, no opportunity to talk to employees and no unconditional access to their private property.

As we say in the south, going down there and "bowing up" on the LP guy is a terrible decision... and one that will be used against the two shoplifters in THEIR case.

After all, you would be trying to intimidate a witness in a criminal investigation, now wouldn't you?

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I am not a person of violence, yes, I am very angry but do you REALLY think I would go down there to beat someone up? If I were to take action I would call the store up ask to speak with the manager and work this out like ADULTS.

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Quoting Prog_Student

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I am not a person of violence, yes, I am very angry but do you REALLY think I would go down there to beat someone up? If I were to take action I would call the store up ask to speak with the manager and work this out like ADULTS.

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And you would STILL be in the wrong.

Listen, I know your initial reaction is to DO something... but this isn't your fight.

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Quoting cyjeff

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And you would STILL be in the wrong.

Listen, I know your initial reaction is to DO something... but this isn't your fight.

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Fine, I will take you advice.

If mod's are able to do so, please, just delete this thread. I have had enough.

Fine.

Good luck.

If you find out the statute under which they were charged, we will be glad to help.

On Monday, find them an excellent attorney...

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Quoting Prog_Student

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Fine, I will take you advice.

If mod's are able to do so, please, just delete this thread. I have had enough.

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They wont so dont bother asking

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Quoting Prog_Student

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If I were to take action I would call the store up ask to speak with the manager and work this out like ADULTS.

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ADULTS will counsel their girlfriend and their sister to get attorneys and get them rightdamnnow, instead of fussing about inconsequential, third hand, quite probably lies.

My husband is a retail district manager. As Jeff notes, those rooms ARE taped - always audio, often video. No business is interested in losing their business to make petty remarks having nothing to do with the matter at hand.

Frankly, your girlfriend and your sister are not AT ALL to be trusted here. I don't care if they were recently canonized, you can't believe them right now.

DO NOT call the store. As you've already been told, legally, you are no one in this case. No. One. They're not going to talk to you, and if you pester them and try to persuade them to "handle this like adults", you're just going to make the situation worse.

They need lawyers. If they aren't in a position to pay for private counsel, they need to show up for court, plead Not Guilty, and ask for public defenders.

As for you?

Stay. Out. Of. It.

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Quoting LawResearcherMissy

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ADULTS will counsel their girlfriend and their sister to get attorneys and get them rightdamnnow, instead of fussing about inconsequential, third hand, quite probably lies.

My husband is a retail district manager. As Jeff notes, those rooms ARE taped - always audio, often video. No business is interested in losing their business to make petty remarks having nothing to do with the matter at hand.

Frankly, your girlfriend and your sister are not AT ALL to be trusted here. I don't care if they were recently canonized, you can't believe them right now.

DO NOT call the store. As you've already been told, legally, you are no one in this case. No. One. They're not going to talk to you, and if you pester them and try to persuade them to "handle this like adults", you're just going to make the situation worse.

They need lawyers. If they aren't in a position to pay for private counsel, they need to show up for court, plead Not Guilty, and ask for public defenders.

As for you?

Stay. Out. Of. It.

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In case you haven't noticed I have already been met with hostility and told to stay out, I have already made it clear that I will do so. I have made it clear that I do not want anymore.

If you "don't want anymore", I suggest you stop posting.

Posting to a public forum WILL elicit commentary, and it's not always going to be what you want to hear.

However, just because it isn't what you want to hear doesn't make it wrong.

I consult to retailers and have been a store manager and LP person myself.

Let me tell you a story from my store management days.

A woman came into the store and wanted to buy a TV. She worked in the regional office and so wanted to use her employee discount.

Unfortunately, she didn't bring her company ID or the documentation from her manager to get her that discount.

So I couldn't give it to her. I handed her a blank form for her to fill out and told her that I would hold one of the sets she wanted until she returned (they were selling fast at the price listed).

The boyfriend she came in with had enough. He asked me what my problem was. Why was I being such a jerk about this? All his girlfriend wanted was to buy him the TV so that he could watch the game.

Wait, I said, this TV is for you? She cannot use her discount for friends... just herself and immediate family.

Then he got REALLY mad. I walked the two of them to the front. On the way, the boyfriend decided that the best way to get me to give him the discount was to threaten me with physical violence.

We were met at the door by the police. I had signaled my personnel on the floor to call them as we were walking up... luckily, a patrolman had just entered the store to buy a camcorder battery for his personal use.

Long story short... boyfriend gets cuffed and stuffed for trespassing (because he INSISTED he had a right to stay in my store after I and the police both told him to leave), he got no TV and the girlfriend got fired from a nice job for causing a near riot in a company store and trying to fraudulently use an employee discount.

Boyfriend was not involved. His involvement not only didn't help, but got himself arrested and his girlfriend (ex, I would believe) terminated.

Yours will end worse.

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Quoting LawResearcherMissy

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ADULTS will counsel their girlfriend and their sister to get attorneys and get them rightdamnnow, instead of fussing about inconsequential, third hand, quite probably lies.

My husband is a retail district manager. As Jeff notes, those rooms ARE taped - always audio, often video. No business is interested in losing their business to make petty remarks having nothing to do with the matter at hand.

Frankly, your girlfriend and your sister are not AT ALL to be trusted here. I don't care if they were recently canonized, you can't believe them right now.

DO NOT call the store. As you've already been told, legally, you are no one in this case. No. One. They're not going to talk to you, and if you pester them and try to persuade them to "handle this like adults", you're just going to make the situation worse.

They need lawyers. If they aren't in a position to pay for private counsel, they need to show up for court, plead Not Guilty, and ask for public defenders.

As for you?

Stay. Out. Of. It.

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All I will say in our young's friends defense is that when a person you care about makes such a stupid mistake, your mind will fixate upon the one point you believe you can fix.

In this case, he fixated on the point in the conversation that he believes he was talked about.

Do I believe that conversation took place with the LP? Not a bit. Does it sound like a story told by an immature girl that got caught by the MAN and wants her boyfriend to still believe in her? Absolutely.

However, it doesn't matter if the LP guy compared his fatherhood equipment to that commonly found on hamsters ... it isn't actionable by the OP.

God it would be wonderful if someone would just delete this thread.

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Quoting Prog_Student

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God it would be wonderful if someone would just delete this thread.

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Won't happen.

If you want to thread gone stop posting on it and let die of old age

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Quoting Prog_Student

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God it would be wonderful if someone would just delete this thread.

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No. The rules here apply to you, just like everyone else.

Missy gave you good advice: If you don't want anymore, stop posting.

Complaining that you're going to get a brain tumor (yes, I can see those posts) is silly, so let me make it easy for you to take Missy's advice: Thread closed, you're banned, have a nice day.