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Following Too Closely Ticket

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  • 01-05-2009, 06:53 AM
    SimonTuffGuy
    Following Too Closely Ticket
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of PA. I was ticketed for following too closely. My court date is today, at 3:30 PM... I'm just looking for any last minute suggestions on how to get the ticket dismissed.

    The situation unfolded like this. I was traveling out of town at 40 MPH in a 40 MPH speed limit area. A car pulled out directly in front of me, so I was forced to brake (to avoid an accident) but obviously got "too close". I expected the car to speed up to the speed limit. I know that if I pull out in front of someone, I speed up to the limit because I know I goofed up. At any rate, this car didn't, she went between 30-32 MPH (35 tops)... In less than 400 yards or so, the car brake checked me, prior to turning right and going off into a development.

    Well... Pull out in front of me and slow me down... Alright, whatever. But, brake check me for no reason, fail to signal until the last second, etc... And then you're trying to start something. So, I turned into the development as well, where 2 witnesses saw me follow her (they were walking their dogs). The woman turned into a driveway for a house, and I drove away. Unfamiliar with this particular development, I made a u-turn at the bottom of the road and went back to hit the main road again, passing by the woman in the car and these 2 witnesses then talking.

    Fast forward to the next morning... I get a visit at work from the state police. It turns out that the woman I followed was the wife of a state police officer, and the witnesses that saw me (either are police, or 1 is the wife of a police) - At any rate... So the officer questions me about the incident, and said I could be charged with following too closely, harassment, etc.

    I told him the truth, so he only ticketed me for following too closely.

    So - Here's the couple questions I have.

    1. The ticket was filed, so I did not sign the ticket. I received a printed copy of a "summons for a summary case traffic", along with the standard yellow carbon copy. The pritned versions is incorrect. My license plate # is noted incorrect (they keyed an "O" instead of a "0", and you can tell the difference between the 2 elsewhere). So, what citation do they go off of, the carbon copy version, or the one that was filed and printed? Who takes care of filing the ticket? Is it the officer who issued the citation, or possibly a court clerk?

    2. Is there any standard practice for the location of the incident, as it should be noted? I spoke with several local officers, who said the location is always the road you're traveling on, followed by the first landmark. So, if the incident happened on Route 401 at Okachobey Drive, it would be written out as Rt 401 / Okachobey Dr... Where, mine is written backwards, like the incident happened on Okachobey Dr, instead of Rt 401...

    And what about direction of travel? Is that noted by the highway itself, or the actual direction of travel? Being "Rt 401", that road runs N to S, but the incident actually happened while traveling eastbound. (this particular roadway travels E to W, more than it does N to S)

    3. The citation also notes that I "followed other driver to her house", however after doing some investigating (I live in a small, small town), the house that she pulled into is vacant and under construction... She does not live there (and in fact, this woman and her husband just built a new home in the last 3-4 years, so even the thought of them possibly moving there throws up questions in my mind)...

    4. Who has to prove that I followed too closely? The officer who ticketed me will have to do it, via his witnesses (the driver, and the dog walker), right? How does her word compare against mine, being that she is the wife of a state police officer?

    Honestly... The entire scenario could've been avoided a number of different ways. The woman could've looked to her right again before pulling out and she would've seen me. She could've sped up to the speed limit and been on her way, as expected she would be when you pull out... She could've turned into her development without brake checking me... And of course, I could've just let it go without following her, etc.

    Any thoughts or suggestions? :)
  • 01-05-2009, 08:01 AM
    cyjeff
    Re: Following Too Closely Ticket - PA
    A good rule of thumb is to avoid any traffic defense that says that YOUR bad behavior was the result of someone else's WORSE behavior.

    Explain that she pulled out in front of you.

    Avoid any discussion, if possible, about why you thought it was a good and mature idea to follow someone to their home.

    That could get you charged with road rage.
  • 01-05-2009, 08:32 AM
    SimonTuffGuy
    Re: Following Too Closely Ticket - PA
    Thanks. I know that it wasn't the best decision to follow her.

    I figured since the ticket was incorrect/misleading in several spots, it would get tossed on a technicality by fighting the charge. As for being charged with anything else after the fact. It was my understanding that I was only going to be in court today for the offense of "following too closely". If the charge would be dropped, with new charges filled... I could only come back and say "Why were these charges not important enough to file from the very beginning?"

    FWIW - The PA Code reads for following too closely: "The driver of a motor vehicle shall not follow another vehicle more closely than is reasonable and prudent, having due regard for the speed of the vehicles and the traffic upon and the condition of the highway." I feel that the second part of that is fairly important, and it was neglected to be listed on my citation. There was no traffic on the highway, it was me and her, and speeds never even reached the speed limit.

    But that code doesn't actually specifiy any number of feet, car lengths, or seconds to follow someone. The PA drivers manual does suggest 4 seconds of time following distance. But 4 seconds at 30 MPH is a street block behind, which is crazy to say that ANYONE follows someone at that distance, anywhere. The drivers manual also says "If you are following too closely and the vehicle ahead of you stops or slows suddenly, you will not be able to avoid a crash." This woman did stop and/or slow suddenly, and I didn't crash... So, if I compare that vs. the drivers manual, I mustn't have been "too close".

    Another point I find that really upsets me is that... I've called 911 at least a half-dozen times for people who have run me off the road, followed me, thrown stuff at my car, etc. And I have NEVER heard anything more on any of those instances. Why wouldn't someone fight a charge if they received a ticket because "he said, she said"? BUT.... When the wife of a state trooper calls about it (either to the police, or to her husband - which I will find out how that all worked today when the officer tells his case), I am found the very next morning and cited. It's just very awkward how it worked.
  • 01-05-2009, 10:19 AM
    blewis
    Re: Following Too Closely Ticket - PA
    Quote:

    Quoting SimonTuffGuy
    View Post
    I've called 911 at least a half-dozen times for people who have run me off the road, followed me, thrown stuff at my car, etc.

    Wow! Based on that statement, plus your description above, you might want to consider the idea that YOU have a problem. Perhaps a Defensive Driving course along with Anger Management?

    Barry
  • 01-06-2009, 11:58 AM
    Buyguy
    Re: Following Too Closely Ticket
    I had a similar incident and here is what I did. I went directly to the police station and issued 3 tickets to the jerk who pulled out in front of me. One each for yeilding right of way, improper turn, and careless driving. The desk officer had me sign the complaint (3 tickets). I showed up in court and plead my complaints. The guy was forced to hire an attorney to defend him.

    The judge heard the case and it turned into he said she said. All of the tickets were thrown out, no witnesses. However the judge read the jerk the riot act and gave him a public lecture about courtesy of the road for 20 minutes.

    I was happy.
  • 01-07-2009, 05:26 AM
    SimonTuffGuy
    Re: Following Too Closely Ticket
    I went to court... The officer "just found out that same day that he was due in court, so there was no time to subpeona his witnesses". The judge wouldn't hear any part of the case that came from either of the witnesses and when she asked him what else he had against me, he said "Nothing."

    Instead of rescheduling and having me and my witness take more time off work, I just requested that the ticket be changed to a non-point violation... She said she'd work with that and changed the offense to a 3111, which is failure to obey traffic devices. It's the same $113.50 fine, but no points and it won't go against my insurance.
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