Personal Loans via Online Poker Sites

My question involves criminal law for the state of: Illinois

Hello and thanks for all your help you provide here.

I am a recovering gambling addict. End of last year, after losing a lot of my own money, I have used my credibility on an online Gambling Forum to receive Funds Transfers (you can transfer money via Pokerstars or Full Tilt Poker to other members internally) from other Poker players (stakes/loans). I have promised (via Instant Messenger and PM on forums) to pay those funds back + interest on those funds. One guy sent me $600, another $1000, another $200 and $500.

I have obviously lost those funds and cannot pay them back. I also do not want to pay them back, because these members knew I was not a winning player and used my gambling addiction to profit. They all sent me money in good faith and because of my credibility as being able to repay these loans.

Now, Online Gambling is illegal in Illinois. These guys have consistently try to contact me, threaten me and demand their money back. Two guys live outside of US and one is in US.

What can they do to me? Can they sue me? Can they call Fraud on me? Can they take me to Civil Court and win a judgement? What rights do I have?

Please help and thanks for all the advice.

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Can they take me to Civil Court and win a judgement?

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Probably. "But online gambling is illegal!" is not likely going to be a good defense for you. Unless there's something you're not telling us, it doesn't sound like they loaned you the money in the course of a game, but rather did so separately.

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What rights do I have?

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You have the right to pay what you owe. I'm not seeing where anyone "took advantage" of you. You've not mentioned any usurious interest or some guy named Bruno showing up to introduce your kneecaps to Mr. Crowbar, and you've said that not only did you promise to repay (in writing, no less), but that they sent the money "in good faith".

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Quoting LawResearcherMissy

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Probably. "But online gambling is illegal!" is not likely going to be a good defense for you. Unless there's something you're not telling us, it doesn't sound like they loaned you the money in the course of a game, but rather did so separately.

I am confused by what you are saying/suggesting. I posted in a transfer thread and said: "Hi, I would like a Loan for 30%, will repay in 30 days." Posters contacted me and SENT me money via a Poker Site (I received an e-mail saying "Hey, you have just received a real money xfer for $XXX). I did not sign any agreements, I just typed on Instant Messenger (AOL) and via Private Messages on the poker forum I would pay back + interest. I really don't understand how they can win a judgment against me in a Civil Court considering that not online Online Gambling is outlawed but they also willingly decided to transfer money to me and take a risk of not being paid back.

Are you telling me (and I am not trying to argue) that tomorrow I get contacted by someone in the Casino (or an online stranger - because that is who I am to those people an online stranger) and they say: Hey buddy, please loan me $1000, I will definitely pay you back and then they don't, I can take them to court and win?


You have the right to pay what you owe. I'm not seeing where anyone "took advantage" of you. You've not mentioned any usurious interest or some guy named Bruno showing up to introduce your kneecaps to Mr. Crowbar, and you've said that not only did you promise to repay (in writing, no less), but that they sent the money "in good faith".

How much weight does this writing have in court? Meaning, yeah I sent someone a message via Instant Messenger and stated that I would pay back, we did not sign anything and also does Online Poker site activity get supported by US courts?

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Please advice.

PS: Can people outside of US sue me or come after me for $600? Once again, considering they STAKED me for a Poker game, sending money knowingly they might never get it back.

Wow.

You seem to be putting an awful lot of energy into figuring out how you can screw people that helped you out.

Yes, they can take you to court... even if they are outside the US.

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Quoting cyjeff

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Wow.

You seem to be putting an awful lot of energy into figuring out how you can screw people that helped you out.

Yes, they can take you to court... even if they are outside the US.

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Listen, how did they help me out? Sent me money to the person they knew very little about, taking a huge risk trying to make a quick buck and fueling my gambling addiction? They clearly knew I had a Gambling problem because no person in their right mind would pay 30% interest on a $1000 loan to be repaid in 7 days. A winning poker player has their own funds to gamble and does not borrow from others. I am not saying I did the right thing, but I since got help and stopped gambling for good and been working hard to bring my life back on track. Those people are no different from a drug dealer, involved in an illegal activity, giving their customer a sample in hopes to sell more later.

But I didn't even come here to get criticized, I came here for an advice from good people who's ranks I would like to join.

As a matter of fact, I sent those people so much money back (before defaulting) that it would cover my debt + more.

At the same time here is what an attorney from Illinois have said:

"In Illinois, it is Illegal to gamble online so it would be against Illinois public policy to enforce those debts"

Untrue statement?

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Quoting neverdespair

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Listen, those people clearly have seen that I had a Gambling Problem.

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80% of the people ON that site have a gambling problem.

They are not licensed gambling addiction therapists. They are not responsible to tell you when you have gambled too much or to play your mommy and tell you it is time to get off the computer.

You seem to think it is okay to screw them over because they were stupid enough to lend you money. You are incorrect.

They are not your mommy or your priest. Just your lender.

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They have seen me lose $5,000 and pay them interest on the loan still. If I were a winning player, why would I need to pay 30% on a loan to gamble? I would have my own money.

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Again, you seem to feel comfortable in blaming everyone but yourself.

Time to find your big boy cowboy pants and start taking responsibility for your own actions.

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At the same time here is what an attorney from Illinois have said:

"In Illinois, it is Illegal to gamble online so it would be against Illinois public policy to enforce those debts"

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You did not have a debt with the gambling site. You had a debt with individuals.

What you did with the money they lent you is YOUR problem. Just because you were stupid with the money doesn't mean you don't owe it anymore.

Let's look at this another way...

You take out a loan on a sports car. You decide to see if you can get same sports car over 150 mph. As you are speeding, you blow a tire and turn the lovely motorcar into bite sized chunks of something that might be metal.

You call the car loan people and say, "Oops. Sorry. You shouldn't have been stupid enough to loan me money for a car that I am too stupid to drive. I hae a speeding problem and you should have asked about it during the purchase process. I am not paying back the loan at all. Bye now."

How long do you think it would take to find yourself in court?

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Quoting cyjeff

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80% of the people ON that site have a gambling problem.

They are not licensed gambling addiction therapists. They are not responsible to tell you when you have gambled too much or to play your mommy and tell you it is time to get off the computer.

You seem to think it is okay to screw them over because they were stupid enough to lend you money. You are incorrect.

They are not your mommy or your priest. Just your lender.



Again, you seem to feel comfortable in blaming everyone but yourself.

Time to find your big boy cowboy pants and start taking responsibility for your own actions.




You did not have a debt with the gambling site. You had a debt with individuals.

What you did with the money they lent you is YOUR problem. Just because you were stupid with the money doesn't mean you don't owe it anymore.

Let's look at this another way...

You take out a loan on a sports car. You decide to see if you can get same sports car over 150 mph. As you are speeding, you blow a tire and turn the lovely motorcar into bite sized chunks of something that might be metal.

You call the car loan people and say, "Oops. Sorry. You shouldn't have been stupid enough to loan me money for a car that I am too stupid to drive. I hae a speeding problem and you should have asked about it during the purchase process. I am not paying back the loan at all. Bye now."

How long do you think it would take to find yourself in court?

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"Car Loan People" are licensed, legit lender. Using an ILLEGAL online gambling site to transfer funds to another individual is NOT licensed or legal.

These people did not come to my house and handed me cash, they did not deposit these funds into my US Bank account, they did not write me a check issued from a US or international bank. They have transferred money to me Illegally.

From what you say, you borrowed money from individuals, not "the house". You now want to cheat those individuals out of their money, and blame them for your own failures. I believe you when you suggest that you're addicted to gambling, as that's classic addict behavior.

I agree with your lawyer that the house would have a hard time collecting from you, for public policy reasons. But you didn't borrow from the house. You borrowed from individuals. You didn't have to gamble with the money. You could have cashed out. So if they sue you, I suspect they'll win.

As you've been told, even when you cheat somebody who lives in another state or country, they can sue you. Generally speaking, for logistical reasons, it's less likely that they'll sue. But they can sue.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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From what you say, you borrowed money from individuals, not "the house". You now want to cheat those individuals out of their money, and blame them for your own failures. I believe you when you suggest that you're addicted to gambling, as that's classic addict behavior.

I agree with your lawyer that the house would have a hard time collecting from you, for public policy reasons. But you didn't borrow from the house. You borrowed from individuals. You didn't have to gamble with the money. You could have cashed out. So if they sue you, I suspect they'll win.

As you've been told, even when you cheat somebody who lives in another state or country, they can sue you. Generally speaking, for logistical reasons, it's less likely that they'll sue. But they can sue.

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So, if an individual sells me Cocaine on credit he can sue me?

These individuals are promoting gambling within IL without a license, and are loan sharking. They are charging usurious interest rates to encourage illegal internet gambling. This debt is not enforceable and their actions are criminal.

Thanks for all your help here. I have learned my lesson and Gambling is behind me.

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Quoting neverdespair

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So, if an individual sells me Cocaine on credit he can sue me?

These individuals are promoting gambling within IL without a license, and are loan sharking. They are charging usurious interest rates to encourage illegal internet gambling. This debt is not enforceable and their actions are criminal.

Thanks for all your help here. I have learned my lesson and Gambling is behind me.

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Again, they are not licensed lenders but individuals.

Therefore, they are not bound by the normal business practices. Further, there is no illegal threat if you don't pay... merely the threat of legal action.

Again... it is not their business or fault how you used the money. The whole world does not have to cushion all the sharp corners so that you don't hurt yourself through your own stupidity.

You borrowed money. You owe to pay it back. If you don't, I sincerely hope that you find yourself paying back their loans plus their legal fees in court.

And, in most cases, your payment of their legal fees is not outside the realm of possibility.