Florida.
A friend of mine is very unhappy in her marriage, has been verbally and emotionally abused. Not sure that it has become physical, but the situation is not healthy for her or her children, there is no repairing the marriage and she wants out. They have been married for 8 years. Her eldest is 10 and not her husband's biological son and her daughter with him is now 6.
She wants to move out of state. Clearly she does not want to leave her daughter behind and does not want to separate the two children. And she does not want to exclude him in their lives, but he has told her repeatedly that if she ever leaves him, she is not leaving with their daughter and will leave with nothing but the clothes on her back. While I understand he doesn't want to lose his daughter, I doubt that it is more about the child than it is about control and his wife leaving him. Any man who would leave the mother of his child on the street with nothing, without just cause, is not a good example. He is not very involved with these children or the one he has from a previous marriage and has been abusive in front of them. She should not stay in a loveless and abusive marriage and the children are truly better off with her having primary custody. Keep in mind that she has wanted to move for years now to create a better life for the entire family and a better education for the kids (Florida schools are the worst if you are not paying for private school), so moving is not just for her sake alone.
That said, telling him she is leaving before hand is not going to work. What will happen if she leaves to another state? There are no judgments in place forbidding her to leave with the children. She plans to begin divorce proceedings once she is gone with every intention of letting him know where she is and every intention of keeping him involved in their daughter's life. Can he force her to go back?
Leaving Husband and Moving Out of State With Children
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11-15-2008, 11:02 AMBrownEyedGirl45Leaving Husband and Moving Out of State With Children
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11-15-2008, 02:52 PMaardvarcRe: Leaving Husband - Moving Out of State With Children
He can't - but a judge can, and, absent some incredibly unusual circumstances (which don't appear as elements in your post), will.
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11-15-2008, 05:41 PMgigirleRe: Leaving Husband - Moving Out of State With Children
She's going about it the wrong way. She should retain an attorney prior to leaving the state. Her husband can't force her to go back but it's likely that a court will order her daughter to go back. Most consults are free.
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11-16-2008, 09:10 AMBrownEyedGirl45Re: Leaving Husband - Moving Out of State With Children
Well, I guess the question is, will she be able to evenutally move to another state and take her daughter with her? Or will a judge likely force the child to stay in Florida? If so, she's not going to leave her daughter behind and will be stuck there subject to his nonsense.
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11-16-2008, 09:51 AMcyjeffRe: Leaving Husband - Moving Out of State With Children
Which is why I dislike third party posts.
"His nonsense"? Would it be along the lines of trying to smuggle the children across state lines in the dead of night?
She can go through the proper channels. She can get an attorney and prove the abuse in a court of law. -
11-16-2008, 12:35 PMXenaRe: Leaving Husband - Moving Out of State With ChildrenAs others have said, she should NOT move without first going to court for visitation, custody, CS and the court's permission to move. She can get a low cost consult with an attirney by calling the Florida Bar Lawyer referral Service at 1-800-342-8011.Quote:
Quoting BrownEyedGirl45
She does not have to stay with her husband, she can move to another place so she won't be forced to be "stuck there subject to his nonsense". She should look into places that are within the same county. -
11-16-2008, 02:41 PMBrownEyedGirl45Re: Leaving Husband - Moving Out of State With Children
I knew it wouldn't be long.
"She can go through the proper channels. She can get an attorney and prove the abuse in a court of law."
Oh, she can? Genius. Why didn't we think of that? :rolleyes: Maybe you should have been the one to prosecute OJ all those years ago...unless, of course, you think he's innocent.
Anyone with personal experience or the common sense to educate themselves on the dynamics of abuse knows it's not that simple.
"Which is why I dislike third party posts."
Why then, did you respond? Oh yes, to express how much you disapprove, to sprew forth sarcasm and NOT offer anything worthy of reading.
""His nonsense"? Would it be along the lines of trying to smuggle the children across state lines in the dead of night?"
Smuggling.....in the dead of night. Sounds romantic.
You conveniently disregarded point of my post. It was to acquire information about leaving the state, TO GET AWAY FROM A TOXIC SITUATION with her children while staying within the law. If the plan needs to change, then so be it.
You also disregarded the mentality of this loser, who's "nonsense" happens to be ABUSE. Or you have defined his "nonsense" as the result of something that has yet to take place. Either way, you have offered nothing of nutritional value. I am now dumber for having read that.
Thank you gigirlie, aardvarc and Xena for your input. While staying in the same county is not doing much, if that is what has to be, then it will be. Our hope is to maximize the distance.
If anyone else knows the laws regarding this, has any experience or something valuable to contribute, it would be greatly appreciated. -
11-16-2008, 03:11 PMgigirleRe: Leaving Husband - Moving Out of State With Children
Your friend should also contact a local womans shelter. They can be a great source for legal aide and helping her get a fresh start. The important thing here is that she gets out ASAP.
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11-16-2008, 03:37 PMBORRe: Leaving Husband and Moving Out of State With ChildrenThe bolded was my initial concern. Since no ORDER is in place, she has to make her decision on if she is complying with the law.Quote:
Quoting BrownEyedGirl45
Scroll down to § 787.03 and 787.04 for FLorida on link below.
http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/parental_kidnapping.pdf
This ABA article discusses the federal parental kidnapping statute:
http://www.abanet.org/child/pkprevrem.pdf
I have NO opinion on what is legal or not, that is for her to decide either by consulting abuse experts in the field and or consulting an attorney.
Best wishes!! -
11-16-2008, 03:55 PMcyjeffRe: Leaving Husband - Moving Out of State With Children
If you had bothered to read any of my other posts, you would know that I am a long term abuse advocate.
However, whenever a friend of a victim minimizes the abuse (which, by her own admission, may be this or may be that) by calling it "nonsense", it leads me to believe that we have someone here guilding the lily a bit.
In other words, they fight a lot and she wants to steal the kids away. If HE did that because his wife was a nag, would you still be giving me the self righteous rant found below?
Actually, I have volunteered in abuse centers helping folks with exactly the same problems you are outlining.Quote:
Quoting BrownEyedGirl45
And, believe it or not, the law doesn't have a loophole that says, "well, in THIS case, the abuse doesn't have to be proven... you are free to take the kids to another state. Dismissed!"
If you want the law to help you, you have to act within it.
My advice was and is accurate. Get an attorney and fight for visitation.Quote:
"Which is why I dislike third party posts."
Why then, did you respond? Oh yes, to express how much you disapprove, to sprew forth sarcasm and NOT offer anything worthy of reading.
As to third party posts... so, you were there? You heard the abuse? You know what was said and by whom? You know where the children were? You know how the children feel because you have interviewed them? You know how HE feels because you have gotten HIS side of the story?
No, you haven't. You had coffee with a buddy and now are loaded for bear.
Which falls back to "get an attorney and file for custody". See how that works?Quote:
""His nonsense"? Would it be along the lines of trying to smuggle the children across state lines in the dead of night?"
Smuggling.....in the dead of night. Sounds romantic.
You conveniently disregarded point of my post. It was to acquire information about leaving the state, TO GET AWAY FROM A TOXIC SITUATION with her children while staying within the law. If the plan needs to change, then so be it.
Cute. I always love it when I get an uncredited Adam Sandler movie quote as a clever retort.Quote:
You also disregarded the mentality of this loser, who's "nonsense" happens to be ABUSE. Or you have defined his "nonsense" as the result of something that has yet to take place. Either way, you have offered nothing of nutritional value. I am now dumber for having read that.
Again, you have talked to exactly one person, your friend, and have decided the whole case. It doesn't work like that.
If you look closely, I answered the question properly and completely. The first time.
Yes, have your "friend" log on and we will be glad to get the details of the story.Quote:
Thank you gigirlie, aardvarc and Xena for your input. While staying in the same county is not doing much, if that is what has to be, then it will be. Our hope is to maximize the distance.
If anyone else knows the laws regarding this, has any experience or something valuable to contribute, it would be greatly appreciated.