DUI in California, First Offense

My question involves criminal law for the state of: California

I was pulled over friday evening, for tossing cigarette out the windows. I pulled into a gas station upon exiting my car I saw the police car. He told me what I did then asked if I had been drinking I told him the truth yes. Said he could smell the beer on my breath. The FST lasted about 30 minutes, which according to my account and my friend who was in the car with me I did not fail. I know officers look for tell tale signs etc, I know he was annoyed with me. Since when standing there, after telling me to keep my hands at my side I kept putting them in my pockets without thinking. Then when walking the line I just spun around rather then take small steps and turn around. All of these things I explained to the officer why I was doing them which annoyed him more. Then gave me the option he would judge me by my performance alone, I figured he would decided I was under the influence if I did not test, so really had no choice. I was so nervous and mouth was so dry it took numerous attempts to get a result. Which from what my friend was told a .082. I then opted for the blood test, and was booked taken to jail till 6am next day. I never want to go through this again.

I know I have to call DMV schedule the hearing etc. I know I will have to go to court. Most will suggest I hire a lawyer I am not rich, $4000-9000 is average I heard from them so far. I can not lose my license, I have to go to work. My financial funds are very tight, since I moved back in with my ex-wife to help support her and our child. Since she has been out of work for 6 months due to PTSD.

Heard suggestsions from friends etc start going to AA right away, even start the DUI program. They are not lawyers or even know the law though.

What are my best options here?

Starting alcohol treatment can be helpful if you're an alcoholic, or the facts are such that a court will conclude that you're an alcoholic (or may be on your way to becoming an alcoholic).

Given the technical nature of some of California's drunk driving laws and procedures, as well as to have your case reviewed for any errors by the police relating to the traffic stop or administration of sobriety tests or breath tests, it does make a lot of sense to consult a DUI defense lawyer.

I will not deny I do have a drink now and then. I was out to dinner with a pretty lady that night so I did have a few drinks with dinner. Cops were so busy staring at her they put her birth date on the DMV paperwork.

I have talked with a few DUi attorneys so far. Lowest bid I got so far is 3k most is 9k.

One thing I did find interesting is when I got pulled over I got accused of 3 offenses. Not Signalying which I did do, tossing a cigarrete which I did do and my light above my license plate being out. It was dark when I got home tonight so checked out the light which was not dead/burnt out. This cop also accused me of smoking marijuana that evening, because my tongue was green. Which I had not. I do admit I do smoke Marijuana a few times a month due to a medical condition which I have prescription for. He accused me of this 3-4 times before being arrested and atleast as many after. I denied them all but they kept pushing which I still denied.

Can cops really lie to me accuse me of things that are absolutely false? They knew I just had dinner and had drinks, so prolonged the FST to make sure alcahol got fully absorbed (is my interpretation) before doing a breathalyzer. Reason I believe this is the length of it, the flashlight in my eyes follow it test at first then 25 minutes later again. Based on facts alcahol gets absorbed up to 40 minutes after you stop drinking. So according to that I could be below .8 when I got pulled over adn above it when the breathalyzer was taken. Agitating me with accusations of not follwoing the law light burnt out etc.. to make me nervous.. reprimanding me constantly about green tongue.. thank god I do not have temper.. so never lost it.. obviously he did when doing breathalyzer since i had problem blowing into the breathalzyer since dry mouth since I was nervous. All of this was done in front of the police car, assuming was camera in their to record.

I did call up DMV today to get a hearing and get records etc, so will see how that comes back.

If I am below .8 , and was not pulled over due to wreckless driving. what are the options accept lesser charge wet wreckless driving? Even though I was not? I admit I should pay for crimes I did. I should pay the $300+ fine for littering, if I was above .08 while driving I should pay, but is this the case now?

Kevin

You had an unlawful BAC. You can cry a river to the judge that you're sober as a church mouse even when you have an unlawful BAC, and the judge will still find that you had an unlawful BAC.

If you wish, by all means talk to the prosecutor and see if you can get an offer for a wet reckless.

hahahaha

I do apprecaite the honesty. I know I am screwed. Basicaly the law comes down to those who have the money.

I realize I will not get out of this, at best case wet wreckless no question. Just want opinions on best way to proceed.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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You had an unlawful BAC.

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According to what? A PAS device reading in the field? That is not a DOJ approved "Chemical Test" result. Blood, Breath (from an ePAS) and Urine are the approved measurements currently approved. PAS devices used in the field (unless they have an ePAS) are just another FST the officer can use to help support the their observations. The OP's blood test will determine the un/lawfulnes of the OP's blood...at the time of the chemical test.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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You can cry a river to the judge that you're sober as a church mouse even when you have an unlawful BAC, and the judge will still find that you had an unlawful BAC.

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What if the blood results indicate a result which is higher than the OP's PAS reading. That would open the door wide open for a rising BAC argument. Raising a persons BAC from a legal (per 23152(b) VC) of .079 to .082 does not take that long. So, if the OP just consumed alcohol, then drove a car under the legal BAC, then was stopped, administered 30 min worth of FST's/questions and vehicle storage +transport to chemical test facility and the chemical test now indicates higher...does not mean they were, at the time of the stop driving with an unlawful BAC at the time of the stop.

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Quoting kdoswald

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Basicaly the law comes down to those who have the money.

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" If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you."

You can seek representation from a Public Defender.

Im interested how your case progresses, if the DA even files. Keep us updated.

well you are a bit more positive even then me.

According to my research you're BAC can go up for 40 min after drinking. The blood test was well past 40 minutes after I stopped drinking. Considering the 30 minute field sobriety test, I swear felt like a marathon. Light in my eyes test to begin and end with. Luckily my car was not impounded they let the friend I was drive it. Of course they were so busy staring at her they put her birthday down on the dmv paperwork.

Obviously hoping for below .80 so is legal and my license will not be suspended right away. The one thing that i think is really screwed up even if it comes back I am legaly sober I am still charged with a DUI.

I am going to call up the public defender, any advice should I wait for to get the results first?

I will say this has scarred me straight for life, I will never have more then one drink at dinner if I drink at all then drive. I never want to spend a night in jail again.

u can get off if yo get the right lawyer. it seems you were well below the limit when you were driving..
Also there s no such thing as passing the field test and never ever take them

hahaha yeah I talked to few lawyers so far way out of my financial means. .082 30 min after driving.. unless over pulled me over hour after I stopped. which he did not.

But legality and law/DA are two different things. Is why I said if I had money could afford justice. I doubt PD will spend time/money to retest my blood fight for me.. contesting every little piece of evidence. Atleast out here from what I have read/been told even if below .08 in blood test I will still be charged with DUI. If above let's say .9 still means I was under while driving, but still be charged. City/government makes money. Unless you have money to combat that money.. very unlikely I will get off.

I will talk to PD.. probably work out plea for wet wreckless even though I was not. I will pay up to $1500 in fines.. and take DUI class so I can actually learn to drive while drunk properly... which actually scares me more.. I do not want to learn that! I want to be afraid to even take one drink and drive.

Kevin

Yeah if I have $5-10k sitting around would be nice :)


I have talked to a few lawyers just can not afford them. I am middle class single father with autistic son.

Basicaly what they do, is try to supress the officer testimony. First off get maint.. calibration records for machine. So try to toss that out.. In end get records of officer. Prove he was on 20 hour shift which he stated just to bust DUI's.. let's prove he was not in best senses.. righting down girl I was with b-day on dmv paperwork.. his partner righting down it was daylight out on her ticket at 9pm at night. Show I have asthma which I use albuteral so high concentration of alcahol so effects breathalyzer.. show that i told him I used binaca breath spray which has alcahol.. so would mess up it up.. show that I was .082 30 min after being pulled over.. so not accurate when I ws driving.. if higher is with blood test proves that.. if lower in blood test.. proves I was not higher when driving.. Get attorney that knows people at DMV.. so can talk on their level.. and knows them.. so does not get my license suspended. Been told point blank from other attorney they hire previous DMV hearing personel, so are friends etc... and is reason they get the charges dropped.

In court.. drags it outs with all these actions.. so makes it not worth to the DA to pursue any longer.. so I get lesser plea or dismissed..

That is why I said earlier justice is for those who have money.. not me.

DA will help me no question.. can get wet wreckless 90% chance.. less is hard to say. Do they know the loopholes as well.. wllling to put in the hours needed to get me down from that hard to say.

Will justice prevail.. doubt it.. will I get out with lesser plea most likely.

Kevin

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Quoting itsjustme

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it seems you were well below the limit when you were driving..

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Remember the blood test results are not known. If the blood test indicates he was under the legal limit, it would be the opposite of a rising BAC defense. It give the DA the ability to argue the OP WAS DUI at the time of the stop.

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Quoting itsjustme

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Also there s no such thing as passing the field test and never ever take them

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I've administered 200+ FST's with people WHO HAD BEEN DRINKING with a mesuarable amount of alcohol. Less than half had the privilige to take the ride with me.

True, you do not have to take FST's. If you are not under the influence of alcohol / drugs...why not take FST's if asked? The only thing it takes is a little bit of time.

Personally, I will arrest someone in a heart beat if they smell of alcohol and refuse FST's/PAS. Even if the ones who take the ePAS breath test and are under the limit test still have to pay money to get their cars out of the tow yard. What about the ones who choose blood? They get so spend the night in a county provided hotel. If they refuse the chemical test, they have a high probability of losing their driving privilige for one year by the DMV. It's the price of being stubborn I guess.

The FST is voluntary, it is annoying no question even if you are 100% sober. I have gone through it about 4-5 times in my life. Been accused I show symptons of being under influence, had my whole car searched including the trunk. Even had cop one time call someone over from the DEA. This is all during normal traffic stops. I try to be polite to the officers when they walk up I have my hands on top of the steering wheel with my fingers spread out. Figure why put them on edge with me. But I do have long hair which does not go over well, and I did have bad teeth. I have quite a few tattoos but everytime I have gone through a FST I was dressed for work so long sleeves etc.

If you refuse to go through with it, I could understand police arresting you. Why not just offer breathalyzer right away? Would seem to make sense, then could move on or continue with the person and save theirs and the police officers time. Plus would be BAC while they were driving not 20-30min later. I understand person could have used a inhalor etc very recently, and refuse it for that reason, but then you still have the FST police could do.

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Quoting kdoswald

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If you refuse to go through with it, I could understand police arresting you. Why not just offer breathalyzer right away? Would seem to make sense, then could move on or continue with the person and save theirs and the police officers time. Plus would be BAC while they were driving not 20-30min later. I understand person could have used a inhalor etc very recently, and refuse it for that reason, but then you still have the FST police could do.

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If you do the regular FST's right, you can, and usually very accuratly determine the BAC prior to any PAS. My departments policy says the PAS should be the last FST offered. Most departments are the same way. With air type testers, we are required to observe an individual for at least 15 minutes incase they burp, vomit etc. Doing those types of things could lead to "mouth alcohol" and dramatically alter the PAS reading...not in the direction you want either. Properly administered FST's are admissible in court, even without PAS readings. There are some nights where I don't even use a PAS, as a way to keep my regular FST skills up.

I can see how you could determine if someone is drunk no question from a FST. Determing BAC that would be hard. If you have a hardcore alcaholic they could be at .2 and physicaly function normaly while other person at .04 who rarely drinks be falling over. To be honest I could not even judge myself from .07 and .082 which I was supposedly at, when the breathalyzer was taken. If I was at .1 oh yeah I can barely walk, let alone drive.

I understand if you smell beer etc asking if they had drink, performing FST. Only thing that has annoyed me in the past. I got pulled over because expired tags years ago, I had a older car and like I said I had bad teeth. Was due to financial means not due to drugs, yet officer because of how I looked decided he should do FST. And after letting me go admitted to that fact. The green tongue this thing was insultive, what idiot at my age would believe that? Was purely to try to get me to try to say I was high. No way a burnt green plant turns anything green. I am honest with police officers when I get pulled over. I had a FST about month before this heading home. Asked about my past drug use etc.. was honest I had smoked weed in my past.. I had done meth.. I was speeding on the freeway, I was tired.

This might be a stupid question. Obviously they took my license I filed for a hearing so got a temp license from nov-may. That is great for driving, but what about things you need a valid photo ID for? Like using a CC, buying cig's.. writing a check etc..

Kevin

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Quoting kdoswald

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I can see how you could determine if someone is drunk no question from a FST. Determing BAC that would be hard.

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You have to understand, I do this as my chosen career. Given the outstanding academy training, and OTJ training, yes, I can, within .01-.02 BAC without a PAS. There is a reason why multiple, divided attention FST's are conducted.

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Quoting kdoswald

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If you have a hardcore alcaholic they could be at .2 and physicaly function normaly and let alone drive normally.

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There was one guy who was supurb on the FST's. Only reason I stopped him was for rolling a stop sign. He was in his late 30's and a chronic alcoholic. He stated he started drinking at the age of 11 in his home country of the USSR (at the time). He did state he drank. Told him to blow in the PAS and he refused. Arrested him for open container as well as DUI (I hate to say it, they eyes don't lie). Chemical test was .25 BAC. Otherwise, this guy functioned as any other person. Unfortunately for him, 23152 (b) VC states ANYONE over .08 BAC is DUI.

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Quoting kdoswald

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while other person at .04 who rarely drinks be falling over.

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and that is the reason for 23152(a) VC, for impaired drivers who shouldn't be driving (as well as perscription drug / drug DUI's.

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Quoting kdoswald

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To be honest I could not even judge myself from .07 and .082 which I was supposedly at, when the breathalyzer was taken. If I was at .1 oh yeah I can barely walk, let alone drive.

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Kevin, I would caution you saying anything like that in court. In reality, the difference between .08 and .10 is one (1) (Uno) beer (12oz). If you say you cant function, let alone walk at .10, you should not be driving at .07/.08.

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Quoting kdoswald

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I had a older car and like I said I had bad teeth...

.. I had done meth..

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To be honest with you, poor teeth is an indication of meth use. That could be one of the indications to the officer you may have been using...who knows the exact reason thou, thats in the past.

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Quoting kdoswald

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The green tongue this thing was insultive, what idiot at my age would believe that? Was purely to try to get me to try to say I was high. No way a burnt green plant turns anything green.

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Actually, you probably don't look at as many tounges as officers do. Honestly, I look at a lot, close up. A green, pasty film can indicate recent MJ use...it could also indicate poor hygine but most of the time MJ is to blame. The green film will stay on your tounge far longer than the THC will actually effect your motor skills (for driving).

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Quoting kdoswald

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This might be a stupid question. Obviously they took my license I filed for a hearing so got a temp license from nov-may. That is great for driving, but what about things you need a valid photo ID for? Like using a CC, buying cig's.. writing a check etc..

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I'm not quite sure on how the DMV operates. They do issue ID cards, which have an identical # as your DL, they only say ID card on it. You may want to give the DMV a call (ugh, I cringe any time I have to deal with them) and see if you can get an ID card issued as an interim fix until your get your DL issue ironed out.

I agree with most of what you have said Sniper. Except green tongue that is a absolutely untrue it is basicaly a urban myth. It has been brought up in court and lost, and actually someone that was rightfully arrested got off due to that being the cause for the search and seizure.

As with the .01 I do not mean exact, just meant my motor skills are impaired if I am drunk and I should not be driving.

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Quoting kdoswald

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I agree with most of what you have said Sniper. Except green tongue that is a absolutely untrue it is basicaly a urban myth.

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http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/inju...s/cannabis.htm

to the point of the link...

DEC Profile: Horizontal gaze nystagmus not present; vertical gaze nystagmus not present; lack of convergence present; pupil size normal to dilated; reaction to light normal to slow; pulse rate elevated; blood pressure elevated; body temperature normal to elevated. Other characteristic indicators may include odor of marijuana in car or on subject’s breath, marijuana debris in mouth, green coating of tongue, bloodshot eyes, body and eyelid tremors, relaxed inhibitions, incomplete thought process, and poor performance on field sobriety tests.

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Quoting kdoswald

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It has been brought up in court and lost, and actually someone that was rightfully arrested got off due to that being the cause for the search and seizure.

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Please provide the link of the case. Like I said, a green tongue is only an indication of MJ use. You can get a green tongue from sucking on a lolly pop... Weaving is an indication of DUI. Do we arrest everyone for DUI when their weaving? No, We need more of a case than that.

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Quoting kdoswald

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Basicaly what they do, is try to supress the officer testimony. First off get maint.. calibration records for machine. So try to toss that out.. In end get records of officer. Prove he was on 20 hour shift which he stated just to bust DUI's.. let's prove he was not in best senses.. righting down girl I was with b-day on dmv paperwork.. his partner righting down it was daylight out on her ticket at 9pm at night. Show I have asthma which I use albuteral so high concentration of alcahol so effects breathalyzer.. show that i told him I used binaca breath spray which has alcahol.. so would mess up it up.. show that I was .082 30 min after being pulled over.. so not accurate when I ws driving.. if higher is with blood test proves that.. if lower in blood test.. proves I was not higher when driving..

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I missed this earlier post.

True, Binaca can effect a PAS machine and produce volotile results. Binaca wound not have been a factor in your PAS results, because you said you completed 30 min worth of FST's. The amount of mouth alcohol produced by Binaca would not register on any machine after that long. I have tried this myself and the effects on testing equipment are gone after minutes of use. If I remember correctly, I tested immediatly after use and it was .11 BAC, 2 min after use, .02 BAC. Soon after .00 BAC.

"Prove he was on 20 hour shift which he stated just to bust DUI's.." A 20 hour shift would be a little overboard. Most departments limit the max an officer to work to around 16 hours (mainly for fatigue/accident related issues). Did he tell you he was working for 20 hours? I have lied / stretched the truth many times to people in the back of my car.

Just to bust DUI's...there are many federal and state grants which provide overtime to officers to specifically go out to "Hunt" for DUI's. This is common and not abnormal. More like proactive policing (preventative maintenance) for fatal car crashes. The programs are for the most part, highly successful. I call it "Fishing".

Don't get me wrong, it seems like there are some technical issues which may help you out a lot. I know were you are coming from, trying to overload the DA's. I've seen it in court also, Defense attorny's who throw enough @#!@ at the wall eventually get something to stick, especially in jury trials.

I have to agree with Sniper on most everything he said here ... and, as a DRE myself, with a lot of road time with DUIs, too, I can usually estimate a BAC from the FSTs within .02 (if only alcohol on board), and within .025 by HGN alone.

Proper training and experience is a marvelous thing!

- Carl

I admit I drink no question a few times a month normally on weekends at home. If I go out to dinner with a friend I have 2-3 drinks which I freely admit to police. Just out of curiousity I have done Meth in the past twice when I was 19, and about dozen times in my early 20's. I decided after a while next day just was not worth it exhausted no energy etc.. one night partying followed by next day being lazy ass. If I am not dressed for work I have tattos, and like I stated perviously I had bad teeth. If police ask me if I did meth I tell them honestly that I have in the past. Should I deny this?

Actually he did not tell me he was on a 20 hour shift. He did tell me they were on special task force that evening which I completely understand it was a holiday and ALOT of kids walking the streets and I am all for it. They were motorcycle cops could tell by their boots and they told my friend. Friend I was with was a attractive lady in low cut blouse. She is one that was told they were on a 20 hour shift, and where motorcycle cops.

Once in back of car they were fairly nice other then constaly accusing me of being high. We passed a chevy dealer with the new corvette and talked about cars for 15 min. When I was taken to jailhouse not sure of better word for the place. Upon searching me and taking to next officer and taken thumbprints. They did tell next officer I was very cooperative through it all. I was a bit freaked out which they knew.. was pretty obvious. Officer that did the FST, asked me to take my boots office (cowboy boots) since where pointed and could not wear them. Was nice enough to give me my socks in my pocket. Was given them back immediately after questioning in small room, and taken for photos. I must say I liked the officer that took pictures he had sense of humor. I had been asking to go pee since hospital I was ready to pee myself. When I asked him he said sure I am here to serve.

Another stupid question sorry, just curious. I was asked to remove all jewelry. I have tongue and nipple piercings. Why? I took out tongue (pain to get back in).. nipples are CBR so not easy to remove without proper tools so they let me keep those.

What are DRN and HGE? .02 is a big variance. .06-08 and liek I said .1 earlier being drunk and not being able to walk and .08. I thought about what you said Sniper, one drink can put me past what I can function properly.

I must admit before this happened I never realized my BAC could go up after drinking. Upon thinking about it, that does make sense though.


I am nervous around cops.. I shake.. sweat.. etc.. like you stated.. bad teeth are symptom of meth use. I not seen that personaly seen it more in balemics(sp?). Because of treapment to me is reason I am nervous around cops. So is double edged sword. I have worked hard.. I spent over $10k this year to fix my teeth, since hurt me with police and on the job. I know you have to judge people upon seeing them no question. Police have a risky job no question. Give person reason of a doubt next time. I admit I do speed.. do not wear seat belt.. smoke WAY to much about 2 packs a day, my tongue was black after dental work for months due to meds. I might have been under influence while driving, based on 40 min after drinking BAC goes up. is 50/50 shot very close. I blew .081 first time and .082 secod. Was told by one lawywer they are supposed to change the mouth piece each time which he did not. funny part about that, I got pulled over for littering. After my breath test officer through it to the side on the side of the road I almost pointed that out.

Kevin

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Quoting kdoswald

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Another stupid question sorry, just curious. I was asked to remove all jewelry. I have tongue and nipple piercings. Why? I took out tongue (pain to get back in).. nipples are CBR so not easy to remove without proper tools so they let me keep those.

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Jails don't like jewelry in the facility ... safety and health issues involved.

- Carl

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Quoting kdoswald

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What are DRN and HGE?

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A DRE is a Drug Recognition Expert (lots of special training and experience in the recognition of the effects of drugs and alcohol on a person and the investigation thereof). The HGN is Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus ... you know, the little "follow the light/pen/finger with your eyes" thing.

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.02 is a big variance.

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Not really. It's only an issue if the BAC is at or about .08 and the state is trying to charge you with a per se violation of .08. This variation inherent in many breath test devices is often sufficient enough to obtain a plea deal to a lesser included offense. And to successfully evaluate a person without the aid of a testing device to within .02 or so is a very learned thing.

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I thought about what you said Sniper, one drink can put me past what I can function properly.

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One is not necessarily "drunk" at .08, but one is considered too impaired to operate a motor vehicle at that level. The physiological effects of DUI can be measured by an outside observer at as low a BAC as .02 to .03. I have seen people that appear only a little "tipsy" that have been far too impaired to drive.

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I blew .081 first time and .082 secod. Was told by one lawywer they are supposed to change the mouth piece each time which he did not.

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That lawyer was wrong. There is no law that requires this, and I do not believe any device manufacturer recommends this be done. He can try that kind of a defense, but it would be hard to argue that the mouthpiece somehow raised the BAC. And a blow that was only .001 off from the first is an incredibly close second blow! Since the usual tolerance is .020, that low variation is quite impressive and really goes to attest the accuracy of the device used.

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funny part about that, I got pulled over for littering.

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We also get them for having license plate lights out.

I arrested a fellow wanted for attempted murder once for a false sticker on his license plate.

The smallest of things can lead to great arrests.

If you'd like, you can complain to the officer's supervisor about his littering.

- Carl

Honestly I just thought it was funny, I got pulled over for littering and he was 30 min later. Realisticaly would it go over well if I complained to his supervisor? I only complained to supervisor one time for being pulled over got a ticket for my son not being in a carseat he was 6 years old and about 90lbs. He is a big kid currently 5'7' and 180lbs at 11 years old. And law atleast at that time was 6 years or 60lb, I checked on CHP web site at that time.

I agree impaired to drive can be a .04-.2 no question. One drink can take you from .04-.08 based on body weight etc. .02 is between .06-.08 based on eye movement, let's say average eye is about inch.. so 25.4mm so movement is in that range of space if found which is not. So you are breaking it down to 12.7 per side.. so movement.. of max 6mm or 1/8inch with bright light shining in persons face. In way I can understand I am in IT.. I can walk up to somone who is having problem.. diagnose in 15 min.. without question.. and is based on experience and knowledge.. some educated guess's.. while other person would have no idea without delving alot further. But I could be wrong to.. is why you have the breathalyzer. (translated into my world)

One test during eye thing was cross eyed which I can not even do for the eye doctor. And officer never noticed my license says I need glasses which I was not wearing at that time. I must say I hate that follow the light.. almost as much as I dislike that lift hand to my nose.. right left.. 4-5 times.. then change it.. almost like simon says as a kid.


Other police officer almost drooling over my friend did not help either..

FST can be accurate.. but depending on the person.. since involves personal opinion can be very off. I have failed them when not having a drink for or any controlled substance for over 3 months. Been told I was exhibiting signs of being under influence and asked what symptons was told I know what they are. Honestly not being a smartass when asking, just curious like I am now asking questions. You are dealing with the persons whole past.. whether good or bad.. with police when a person gets pulled over. I get flustered.. red.. nervous.. accused of false ID once. threatoned to taken to jail over that even was on virge of nervous break down once since was such a bad week. Wish they could make a field blood test.. little prick.. test blood on you're way. No mess no fuss.. is accurate for most part..

Can I ask why DUI classes? I asked around about them. It is like drug rehab. If you are drug dealer.. seller.. etc great way to make contacts. If DUI class great way to learn to drive drunk.. or meet up with group to drink with afterwards.

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Quoting kdoswald

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Realisticaly would it go over well if I complained to his supervisor?

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It would likely result in an admonition for the officer to pick up his mouthpieces in the future.

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on eye movement, let's say average eye is about inch.. so 25.4mm so movement is in that range of space if found which is not. So you are breaking it down to 12.7 per side.. so movement.. of max 6mm or 1/8inch with bright light shining in persons face.

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It has nothing to do with a measurement in mm (for HGN), but, instead, the presence of HGN and the angle of onset.

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But I could be wrong to.. is why you have the breathalyzer. (translated into my world)

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That is why we cannot legally use our evaluation as a reliable measurement of BAC and why the state requires a mandated chemical test. However, I can still testify as to impairment based upon my observations, training, and experience. Especially when you consider that a person impaired by drugs (legal or otherwise) is not going to have a BAC.

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One test during eye thing was cross eyed which I can not even do for the eye doctor.

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Convergence is only one part of the test, and generally designed as part of the drug protocol.

The FSTs are designed as a battery - that is, they are designed to be given in a group. When evaluated as a group, their accuracy rises ... when taken singly, their reliability is lower, but still quite good.

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Wish they could make a field blood test.. little prick.. test blood on you're way. No mess no fuss.. is accurate for most part..

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No such accurate test is available, and fewer officers would feel comfortable poking people to draw blood in the field - I wouldn't.

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Can I ask why DUI classes? I asked around about them. It is like drug rehab. If you are drug dealer.. seller.. etc great way to make contacts. If DUI class great way to learn to drive drunk.. or meet up with group to drink with afterwards.

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Because the law says we have to give people an opportunity to clean up their act. Some people actually do. Many don't. But, we are optimists and ever hopeful.

- Carl

I will disagree on opportunity to clean up. It is up to a individual to decide whethe to clean up or not. Forcing them into something never works. especially when I will even admit over 50% will not. So forcing 100% into a class.. rehab etc.. is pointless. The ones who want to be there, are persuade by those who are not.. and start to think next time will get away with it.. and learn tricks to do so.. those who do not want to be there.. teach everyone their tricks.. so everyone gets better at disobeying the law in the end. except that small 1 perent who are strong willed and stand by their thoughts.. beliefs etc.. Should hear advice I got since this.. keep gum in my car.. breathmints.. eat a reeses afterwards.. when driving keep hands on lower part of wheel so less chance of swerving.. It actually is sick in a way.

Friend of friend was a drug dealer many years ago.. he made his best contacts in drug rehab.. talked to quite a few who went to DUI classes.. best part they remember is going to drinks afterwards with the classs. Realisticaly best way once someone is busted etc.. offer them a discount on drug rehab.. dui classes if they go. That would help enormously rather then charging them for it. And not be part of decision on the courts.

I just realized something other day, I need to wear glasses.. which I do not most of the time.. it is stupid no question. Mainly what is effected is my night vision. Would this effect the eye test with the police? My license states I need to wear glasses but was never brought up.

I know there is no 100% accurate field test, would be nice though. Would speed up process dramaticaly. And give accurate results at time of driving, not hour later which if lower.. person could say.. was lower when driving.. if higher could say was lower when driving. It really is a inneficient.. and innacurate system. Police are taught to use radar gun.. to subdue violent person.. to aim a gun.. to protect people.. simple let's say finger prick test.. via a machine could be simply taught. Obviously if available.

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Quoting kdoswald

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I will disagree on opportunity to clean up. It is up to a individual to decide whethe to clean up or not. Forcing them into something never works.

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You are correct that it is up to the individual, you are no correct in the statement that forcing them into rehab "never works". I know of many, many people for whom jail or court ordered rehab was what helped turn the around. Often times it was the beginning of the road to recovery if not the last stop.

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Should hear advice I got since this.. keep gum in my car.. breathmints.. eat a reeses afterwards.

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None of which work. As I tell people in my alcohol and drug class, having a breathmint after drinking simply gives you minty fresh beer breath. And since most the odor of alcohol emanates from the pores and not the breath, the breath odor is not a deciding factor anyway. And no amount of breath mints, Reeses, etc., will change the way that odor smells.

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best part they remember is going to drinks afterwards with the classs.

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My sister did that with her felony DUI. That's why in many counties AA no longer accepts court-ordered attendees.

As for drugs, the law requires they be given treatment at least the first two times so there is really no way around it

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Mainly what is effected is my night vision. Would this effect the eye test with the police?

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It shouldn't, no.

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I know there is no 100% accurate field test, would be nice though. Would speed up process dramaticaly. And give accurate results at time of driving, not hour later which if lower.. person could say.. was lower when driving.. if higher could say was lower when driving. It really is a inneficient.. and innacurate system.

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But, it's the best we got. And, since the body purges alcohol at a reasonably predictable rate, but rises at a much higher rate (depending on the amount of alcohol consumed, and when) it is pretty safe to say that a test given within two hours of a stop is going to be accurate within .03, hence the reason the test is considered good, and why many DUIs in my state are plead down to the impaired section (23152(a)) or wet reckless (23103.5) when the BAC is .11 or thereabouts rather than charge the 'per se' section of 23152(b).

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Police are taught to use radar gun.. to subdue violent person.. to aim a gun.. to protect people.. simple let's say finger prick test.. via a machine could be simply taught. Obviously if available.

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Since such invasive procedures currently require specialized training in CA, the training requirements would likely be prohibitive unless the laws were changed and immunity for injury as a result of such tests granted. Plus, the blood contained in the capillaries may not make for a valid test, and no officer I know is going to go for a full blown blood draw on the side of the road! Not to mention that there is currently no means to test it even if you COULD convince officers to learn how to be come phlebotomists.

- Carl

You made some very good points no question.

People that went to Jail (that scared me to death).. to be honest I will never even risk that again if 1% in doubt if my sobriety.


I should clarify though forcing them into rehab.. meaning that they had no intention.. thought of going beforehand court ordered them and do not want ot be there when court ordered them. People make up their minds before going in if they are going to change because of it or not. Yes a small percentage do change their minds despite this but small.

Blood test mght be far fetched I admit, I know my mom is a nurse drawing a vial of blood... on scene would be very dangerous for the police and person involved. Just wish there was a way to determine quick.. easy .. accurate.

Thank you for answering my questions. I am not as freaked out over this as that night. Obviously I know I it is going to cost me ALOT of money no matter how it ends. But I have learned alot through this process.

Mints.. etc.. mainly to disquise breath when get pulled over. So for example when I got pulled over.. beer is very apparent. Even if you have one. So help to keep from doing the FST etc.. and hopefully bypass that part of it.

One question that was not answered. I did do meth in past.. not once.. but not long term.. maybe 6 months max.. twice a month. should I deny this? I am a bad liar no question, it has been over well over 10 years now. I got pulled over 2 months ago went through the FST and I told police officer that I did in the past when he asked. Few friends told me never tell them that. My opinion noraly be 100% honest when quesitoned even if it is not relevant.

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Quoting kdoswald

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People that went to Jail (that scared me to death).. to be honest I will never even risk that again if 1% in doubt if my sobriety.

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This can be a good thing ... and for some people, the arrest is enough.

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People make up their minds before going in if they are going to change because of it or not. Yes a small percentage do change their minds despite this but small.

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I agree that no one can be forced to change their ways. But, a person sentenced to rehab can always refuse treatment and instead ask for full time to be served ... not sure if many would do that (I know of one that did, though), but it might still be an option for some.

But, there is always that thin hope that the seed will be planted.

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Just wish there was a way to determine quick.. easy .. accurate.

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I wish for many things ... unfortunately, they just don't come to pass very often.

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Thank you for answering my questions. I am not as freaked out over this as that night. Obviously I know I it is going to cost me ALOT of money no matter how it ends. But I have learned alot through this process.

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Anything that you learn from is not a misbegotten experience. A positive lesson can be taken from most anything if you choose to see it.

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Mints.. etc.. mainly to disquise breath when get pulled over.

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They really do not work. In fact, it's sort of like sending up a red flag that says, "I've been drinking!" Sort of like marijuana smokers that think that 8 pine tree shaped air fresheners can mask the odor of their recent toking up session.

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One question that was not answered. I did do meth in past.. not once.. but not long term.. maybe 6 months max.. twice a month. should I deny this?

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Deny it to who? If you are getting treatment, probably not. If to the police, you do not have to confess to past crimes. If it is ten years in the past, it is probably not relevant to a whole lot.

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I got pulled over 2 months ago went through the FST and I told police officer that I did in the past when he asked. Few friends told me never tell them that. My opinion noraly be 100% honest when quesitoned even if it is not relevant.

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I like to know, but that doesn't mean you have to tell. Sometimes it does benefit you to tell the truth, and officers tend to value honesty over deception. Whether you choose to 'fess up or not is up to you. I value honesty ... though it might not help you if impaired.

- Carl

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Quoting sniper

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According to what? A PAS device reading in the field?

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Blood test results are apparently forthcoming.

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Quoting sniper

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What if the blood results indicate a result which is higher than the OP's PAS reading.

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What if the moon is made of green cheese? I prefer to wait to see what the blood test results were over playing the "what if" game.

So, enough time has passed, what are the BAC results from the blood test?