What are DRN and HGE? .02 is a big variance. .06-08 and liek I said .1 earlier being drunk and not being able to walk and .08. I thought about what you said Sniper, one drink can put me past what I can function properly.
I must admit before this happened I never realized my BAC could go up after drinking. Upon thinking about it, that does make sense though.
I am nervous around cops.. I shake.. sweat.. etc.. like you stated.. bad teeth are symptom of meth use. I not seen that personaly seen it more in balemics(sp?). Because of treapment to me is reason I am nervous around cops. So is double edged sword. I have worked hard.. I spent over $10k this year to fix my teeth, since hurt me with police and on the job. I know you have to judge people upon seeing them no question. Police have a risky job no question. Give person reason of a doubt next time. I admit I do speed.. do not wear seat belt.. smoke WAY to much about 2 packs a day, my tongue was black after dental work for months due to meds. I might have been under influence while driving, based on 40 min after drinking BAC goes up. is 50/50 shot very close. I blew .081 first time and .082 secod. Was told by one lawywer they are supposed to change the mouth piece each time which he did not. funny part about that, I got pulled over for littering. After my breath test officer through it to the side on the side of the road I almost pointed that out.
Kevin
DUI in California, First Offense
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11-12-2008, 09:01 PMkdoswaldRe: DUI in California, First Offense
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11-12-2008, 09:03 PMcdwjavaRe: DUI in California, First OffenseJails don't like jewelry in the facility ... safety and health issues involved.Quote:
Quoting kdoswald
- Carl -
11-12-2008, 09:12 PMcdwjavaRe: DUI in California, First OffenseA DRE is a Drug Recognition Expert (lots of special training and experience in the recognition of the effects of drugs and alcohol on a person and the investigation thereof). The HGN is Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus ... you know, the little "follow the light/pen/finger with your eyes" thing.Quote:
Quoting kdoswald
Not really. It's only an issue if the BAC is at or about .08 and the state is trying to charge you with a per se violation of .08. This variation inherent in many breath test devices is often sufficient enough to obtain a plea deal to a lesser included offense. And to successfully evaluate a person without the aid of a testing device to within .02 or so is a very learned thing.Quote:
.02 is a big variance.
One is not necessarily "drunk" at .08, but one is considered too impaired to operate a motor vehicle at that level. The physiological effects of DUI can be measured by an outside observer at as low a BAC as .02 to .03. I have seen people that appear only a little "tipsy" that have been far too impaired to drive.Quote:
I thought about what you said Sniper, one drink can put me past what I can function properly.
That lawyer was wrong. There is no law that requires this, and I do not believe any device manufacturer recommends this be done. He can try that kind of a defense, but it would be hard to argue that the mouthpiece somehow raised the BAC. And a blow that was only .001 off from the first is an incredibly close second blow! Since the usual tolerance is .020, that low variation is quite impressive and really goes to attest the accuracy of the device used.Quote:
I blew .081 first time and .082 secod. Was told by one lawywer they are supposed to change the mouth piece each time which he did not.
We also get them for having license plate lights out.Quote:
funny part about that, I got pulled over for littering.
I arrested a fellow wanted for attempted murder once for a false sticker on his license plate.
The smallest of things can lead to great arrests.
If you'd like, you can complain to the officer's supervisor about his littering.
- Carl -
11-12-2008, 10:04 PMkdoswaldRe: DUI in California, First Offense
Honestly I just thought it was funny, I got pulled over for littering and he was 30 min later. Realisticaly would it go over well if I complained to his supervisor? I only complained to supervisor one time for being pulled over got a ticket for my son not being in a carseat he was 6 years old and about 90lbs. He is a big kid currently 5'7' and 180lbs at 11 years old. And law atleast at that time was 6 years or 60lb, I checked on CHP web site at that time.
I agree impaired to drive can be a .04-.2 no question. One drink can take you from .04-.08 based on body weight etc. .02 is between .06-.08 based on eye movement, let's say average eye is about inch.. so 25.4mm so movement is in that range of space if found which is not. So you are breaking it down to 12.7 per side.. so movement.. of max 6mm or 1/8inch with bright light shining in persons face. In way I can understand I am in IT.. I can walk up to somone who is having problem.. diagnose in 15 min.. without question.. and is based on experience and knowledge.. some educated guess's.. while other person would have no idea without delving alot further. But I could be wrong to.. is why you have the breathalyzer. (translated into my world)
One test during eye thing was cross eyed which I can not even do for the eye doctor. And officer never noticed my license says I need glasses which I was not wearing at that time. I must say I hate that follow the light.. almost as much as I dislike that lift hand to my nose.. right left.. 4-5 times.. then change it.. almost like simon says as a kid.
Other police officer almost drooling over my friend did not help either..
FST can be accurate.. but depending on the person.. since involves personal opinion can be very off. I have failed them when not having a drink for or any controlled substance for over 3 months. Been told I was exhibiting signs of being under influence and asked what symptons was told I know what they are. Honestly not being a smartass when asking, just curious like I am now asking questions. You are dealing with the persons whole past.. whether good or bad.. with police when a person gets pulled over. I get flustered.. red.. nervous.. accused of false ID once. threatoned to taken to jail over that even was on virge of nervous break down once since was such a bad week. Wish they could make a field blood test.. little prick.. test blood on you're way. No mess no fuss.. is accurate for most part..
Can I ask why DUI classes? I asked around about them. It is like drug rehab. If you are drug dealer.. seller.. etc great way to make contacts. If DUI class great way to learn to drive drunk.. or meet up with group to drink with afterwards. -
11-12-2008, 10:42 PMcdwjavaRe: DUI in California, First OffenseIt would likely result in an admonition for the officer to pick up his mouthpieces in the future.Quote:
Quoting kdoswald
It has nothing to do with a measurement in mm (for HGN), but, instead, the presence of HGN and the angle of onset.Quote:
on eye movement, let's say average eye is about inch.. so 25.4mm so movement is in that range of space if found which is not. So you are breaking it down to 12.7 per side.. so movement.. of max 6mm or 1/8inch with bright light shining in persons face.
That is why we cannot legally use our evaluation as a reliable measurement of BAC and why the state requires a mandated chemical test. However, I can still testify as to impairment based upon my observations, training, and experience. Especially when you consider that a person impaired by drugs (legal or otherwise) is not going to have a BAC.Quote:
But I could be wrong to.. is why you have the breathalyzer. (translated into my world)
Convergence is only one part of the test, and generally designed as part of the drug protocol.Quote:
One test during eye thing was cross eyed which I can not even do for the eye doctor.
The FSTs are designed as a battery - that is, they are designed to be given in a group. When evaluated as a group, their accuracy rises ... when taken singly, their reliability is lower, but still quite good.
No such accurate test is available, and fewer officers would feel comfortable poking people to draw blood in the field - I wouldn't.Quote:
Wish they could make a field blood test.. little prick.. test blood on you're way. No mess no fuss.. is accurate for most part..
Because the law says we have to give people an opportunity to clean up their act. Some people actually do. Many don't. But, we are optimists and ever hopeful.Quote:
Can I ask why DUI classes? I asked around about them. It is like drug rehab. If you are drug dealer.. seller.. etc great way to make contacts. If DUI class great way to learn to drive drunk.. or meet up with group to drink with afterwards.
- Carl -
11-14-2008, 08:58 PMkdoswaldRe: DUI in California, First Offense
I will disagree on opportunity to clean up. It is up to a individual to decide whethe to clean up or not. Forcing them into something never works. especially when I will even admit over 50% will not. So forcing 100% into a class.. rehab etc.. is pointless. The ones who want to be there, are persuade by those who are not.. and start to think next time will get away with it.. and learn tricks to do so.. those who do not want to be there.. teach everyone their tricks.. so everyone gets better at disobeying the law in the end. except that small 1 perent who are strong willed and stand by their thoughts.. beliefs etc.. Should hear advice I got since this.. keep gum in my car.. breathmints.. eat a reeses afterwards.. when driving keep hands on lower part of wheel so less chance of swerving.. It actually is sick in a way.
Friend of friend was a drug dealer many years ago.. he made his best contacts in drug rehab.. talked to quite a few who went to DUI classes.. best part they remember is going to drinks afterwards with the classs. Realisticaly best way once someone is busted etc.. offer them a discount on drug rehab.. dui classes if they go. That would help enormously rather then charging them for it. And not be part of decision on the courts.
I just realized something other day, I need to wear glasses.. which I do not most of the time.. it is stupid no question. Mainly what is effected is my night vision. Would this effect the eye test with the police? My license states I need to wear glasses but was never brought up.
I know there is no 100% accurate field test, would be nice though. Would speed up process dramaticaly. And give accurate results at time of driving, not hour later which if lower.. person could say.. was lower when driving.. if higher could say was lower when driving. It really is a inneficient.. and innacurate system. Police are taught to use radar gun.. to subdue violent person.. to aim a gun.. to protect people.. simple let's say finger prick test.. via a machine could be simply taught. Obviously if available. -
11-14-2008, 10:26 PMcdwjavaRe: DUI in California, First OffenseYou are correct that it is up to the individual, you are no correct in the statement that forcing them into rehab "never works". I know of many, many people for whom jail or court ordered rehab was what helped turn the around. Often times it was the beginning of the road to recovery if not the last stop.Quote:
Quoting kdoswald
None of which work. As I tell people in my alcohol and drug class, having a breathmint after drinking simply gives you minty fresh beer breath. And since most the odor of alcohol emanates from the pores and not the breath, the breath odor is not a deciding factor anyway. And no amount of breath mints, Reeses, etc., will change the way that odor smells.Quote:
Should hear advice I got since this.. keep gum in my car.. breathmints.. eat a reeses afterwards.
My sister did that with her felony DUI. That's why in many counties AA no longer accepts court-ordered attendees.Quote:
best part they remember is going to drinks afterwards with the classs.
As for drugs, the law requires they be given treatment at least the first two times so there is really no way around it
It shouldn't, no.Quote:
Mainly what is effected is my night vision. Would this effect the eye test with the police?
But, it's the best we got. And, since the body purges alcohol at a reasonably predictable rate, but rises at a much higher rate (depending on the amount of alcohol consumed, and when) it is pretty safe to say that a test given within two hours of a stop is going to be accurate within .03, hence the reason the test is considered good, and why many DUIs in my state are plead down to the impaired section (23152(a)) or wet reckless (23103.5) when the BAC is .11 or thereabouts rather than charge the 'per se' section of 23152(b).Quote:
I know there is no 100% accurate field test, would be nice though. Would speed up process dramaticaly. And give accurate results at time of driving, not hour later which if lower.. person could say.. was lower when driving.. if higher could say was lower when driving. It really is a inneficient.. and innacurate system.
Since such invasive procedures currently require specialized training in CA, the training requirements would likely be prohibitive unless the laws were changed and immunity for injury as a result of such tests granted. Plus, the blood contained in the capillaries may not make for a valid test, and no officer I know is going to go for a full blown blood draw on the side of the road! Not to mention that there is currently no means to test it even if you COULD convince officers to learn how to be come phlebotomists.Quote:
Police are taught to use radar gun.. to subdue violent person.. to aim a gun.. to protect people.. simple let's say finger prick test.. via a machine could be simply taught. Obviously if available.
- Carl -
11-14-2008, 11:09 PMkdoswaldRe: DUI in California, First Offense
You made some very good points no question.
People that went to Jail (that scared me to death).. to be honest I will never even risk that again if 1% in doubt if my sobriety.
I should clarify though forcing them into rehab.. meaning that they had no intention.. thought of going beforehand court ordered them and do not want ot be there when court ordered them. People make up their minds before going in if they are going to change because of it or not. Yes a small percentage do change their minds despite this but small.
Blood test mght be far fetched I admit, I know my mom is a nurse drawing a vial of blood... on scene would be very dangerous for the police and person involved. Just wish there was a way to determine quick.. easy .. accurate.
Thank you for answering my questions. I am not as freaked out over this as that night. Obviously I know I it is going to cost me ALOT of money no matter how it ends. But I have learned alot through this process.
Mints.. etc.. mainly to disquise breath when get pulled over. So for example when I got pulled over.. beer is very apparent. Even if you have one. So help to keep from doing the FST etc.. and hopefully bypass that part of it.
One question that was not answered. I did do meth in past.. not once.. but not long term.. maybe 6 months max.. twice a month. should I deny this? I am a bad liar no question, it has been over well over 10 years now. I got pulled over 2 months ago went through the FST and I told police officer that I did in the past when he asked. Few friends told me never tell them that. My opinion noraly be 100% honest when quesitoned even if it is not relevant. -
11-14-2008, 11:26 PMcdwjavaRe: DUI in California, First OffenseThis can be a good thing ... and for some people, the arrest is enough.Quote:
Quoting kdoswald
I agree that no one can be forced to change their ways. But, a person sentenced to rehab can always refuse treatment and instead ask for full time to be served ... not sure if many would do that (I know of one that did, though), but it might still be an option for some.Quote:
People make up their minds before going in if they are going to change because of it or not. Yes a small percentage do change their minds despite this but small.
But, there is always that thin hope that the seed will be planted.
I wish for many things ... unfortunately, they just don't come to pass very often.Quote:
Just wish there was a way to determine quick.. easy .. accurate.
Anything that you learn from is not a misbegotten experience. A positive lesson can be taken from most anything if you choose to see it.Quote:
Thank you for answering my questions. I am not as freaked out over this as that night. Obviously I know I it is going to cost me ALOT of money no matter how it ends. But I have learned alot through this process.
They really do not work. In fact, it's sort of like sending up a red flag that says, "I've been drinking!" Sort of like marijuana smokers that think that 8 pine tree shaped air fresheners can mask the odor of their recent toking up session.Quote:
Mints.. etc.. mainly to disquise breath when get pulled over.
Deny it to who? If you are getting treatment, probably not. If to the police, you do not have to confess to past crimes. If it is ten years in the past, it is probably not relevant to a whole lot.Quote:
One question that was not answered. I did do meth in past.. not once.. but not long term.. maybe 6 months max.. twice a month. should I deny this?
I like to know, but that doesn't mean you have to tell. Sometimes it does benefit you to tell the truth, and officers tend to value honesty over deception. Whether you choose to 'fess up or not is up to you. I value honesty ... though it might not help you if impaired.Quote:
I got pulled over 2 months ago went through the FST and I told police officer that I did in the past when he asked. Few friends told me never tell them that. My opinion noraly be 100% honest when quesitoned even if it is not relevant.
- Carl -
11-28-2008, 12:22 PMMr. KnowitallRe: DUI in California, First OffenseBlood test results are apparently forthcoming.Quote:
Quoting sniper
What if the moon is made of green cheese? I prefer to wait to see what the blood test results were over playing the "what if" game.Quote:
Quoting sniper