Remember the blood test results are not known. If the blood test indicates he was under the legal limit, it would be the opposite of a rising BAC defense. It give the DA the ability to argue the OP WAS DUI at the time of the stop.Quote:
Quoting itsjustme
I've administered 200+ FST's with people WHO HAD BEEN DRINKING with a mesuarable amount of alcohol. Less than half had the privilige to take the ride with me.Quote:
Quoting itsjustme
True, you do not have to take FST's. If you are not under the influence of alcohol / drugs...why not take FST's if asked? The only thing it takes is a little bit of time.
Personally, I will arrest someone in a heart beat if they smell of alcohol and refuse FST's/PAS. Even if the ones who take the ePAS breath test and are under the limit test still have to pay money to get their cars out of the tow yard. What about the ones who choose blood? They get so spend the night in a county provided hotel. If they refuse the chemical test, they have a high probability of losing their driving privilige for one year by the DMV. It's the price of being stubborn I guess.
DUI in California, First Offense
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11-09-2008, 03:09 PMsniperRe: DUI in California, First Offense
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11-09-2008, 03:40 PMkdoswaldRe: DUI in California, First Offense
The FST is voluntary, it is annoying no question even if you are 100% sober. I have gone through it about 4-5 times in my life. Been accused I show symptons of being under influence, had my whole car searched including the trunk. Even had cop one time call someone over from the DEA. This is all during normal traffic stops. I try to be polite to the officers when they walk up I have my hands on top of the steering wheel with my fingers spread out. Figure why put them on edge with me. But I do have long hair which does not go over well, and I did have bad teeth. I have quite a few tattoos but everytime I have gone through a FST I was dressed for work so long sleeves etc.
If you refuse to go through with it, I could understand police arresting you. Why not just offer breathalyzer right away? Would seem to make sense, then could move on or continue with the person and save theirs and the police officers time. Plus would be BAC while they were driving not 20-30min later. I understand person could have used a inhalor etc very recently, and refuse it for that reason, but then you still have the FST police could do. -
11-09-2008, 04:06 PMsniperRe: DUI in California, First OffenseQuote:
Quoting kdoswald
If you do the regular FST's right, you can, and usually very accuratly determine the BAC prior to any PAS. My departments policy says the PAS should be the last FST offered. Most departments are the same way. With air type testers, we are required to observe an individual for at least 15 minutes incase they burp, vomit etc. Doing those types of things could lead to "mouth alcohol" and dramatically alter the PAS reading...not in the direction you want either. Properly administered FST's are admissible in court, even without PAS readings. There are some nights where I don't even use a PAS, as a way to keep my regular FST skills up. -
11-10-2008, 06:53 PMkdoswaldRe: DUI in California, First Offense
I can see how you could determine if someone is drunk no question from a FST. Determing BAC that would be hard. If you have a hardcore alcaholic they could be at .2 and physicaly function normaly while other person at .04 who rarely drinks be falling over. To be honest I could not even judge myself from .07 and .082 which I was supposedly at, when the breathalyzer was taken. If I was at .1 oh yeah I can barely walk, let alone drive.
I understand if you smell beer etc asking if they had drink, performing FST. Only thing that has annoyed me in the past. I got pulled over because expired tags years ago, I had a older car and like I said I had bad teeth. Was due to financial means not due to drugs, yet officer because of how I looked decided he should do FST. And after letting me go admitted to that fact. The green tongue this thing was insultive, what idiot at my age would believe that? Was purely to try to get me to try to say I was high. No way a burnt green plant turns anything green. I am honest with police officers when I get pulled over. I had a FST about month before this heading home. Asked about my past drug use etc.. was honest I had smoked weed in my past.. I had done meth.. I was speeding on the freeway, I was tired.
This might be a stupid question. Obviously they took my license I filed for a hearing so got a temp license from nov-may. That is great for driving, but what about things you need a valid photo ID for? Like using a CC, buying cig's.. writing a check etc..
Kevin -
11-12-2008, 12:57 AMsniperRe: DUI in California, First OffenseYou have to understand, I do this as my chosen career. Given the outstanding academy training, and OTJ training, yes, I can, within .01-.02 BAC without a PAS. There is a reason why multiple, divided attention FST's are conducted.Quote:
Quoting kdoswald
There was one guy who was supurb on the FST's. Only reason I stopped him was for rolling a stop sign. He was in his late 30's and a chronic alcoholic. He stated he started drinking at the age of 11 in his home country of the USSR (at the time). He did state he drank. Told him to blow in the PAS and he refused. Arrested him for open container as well as DUI (I hate to say it, they eyes don't lie). Chemical test was .25 BAC. Otherwise, this guy functioned as any other person. Unfortunately for him, 23152 (b) VC states ANYONE over .08 BAC is DUI.Quote:
Quoting kdoswald
and that is the reason for 23152(a) VC, for impaired drivers who shouldn't be driving (as well as perscription drug / drug DUI's.Quote:
Quoting kdoswald
Kevin, I would caution you saying anything like that in court. In reality, the difference between .08 and .10 is one (1) (Uno) beer (12oz). If you say you cant function, let alone walk at .10, you should not be driving at .07/.08.Quote:
Quoting kdoswald
To be honest with you, poor teeth is an indication of meth use. That could be one of the indications to the officer you may have been using...who knows the exact reason thou, thats in the past.Quote:
Quoting kdoswald
Actually, you probably don't look at as many tounges as officers do. Honestly, I look at a lot, close up. A green, pasty film can indicate recent MJ use...it could also indicate poor hygine but most of the time MJ is to blame. The green film will stay on your tounge far longer than the THC will actually effect your motor skills (for driving).Quote:
Quoting kdoswald
I'm not quite sure on how the DMV operates. They do issue ID cards, which have an identical # as your DL, they only say ID card on it. You may want to give the DMV a call (ugh, I cringe any time I have to deal with them) and see if you can get an ID card issued as an interim fix until your get your DL issue ironed out.Quote:
Quoting kdoswald
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11-12-2008, 07:42 AMkdoswaldRe: DUI in California, First Offense
I agree with most of what you have said Sniper. Except green tongue that is a absolutely untrue it is basicaly a urban myth. It has been brought up in court and lost, and actually someone that was rightfully arrested got off due to that being the cause for the search and seizure.
As with the .01 I do not mean exact, just meant my motor skills are impaired if I am drunk and I should not be driving. -
11-12-2008, 09:15 AMsniperRe: DUI in California, First OffenseQuote:
Quoting kdoswald
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/inju...s/cannabis.htm
to the point of the link...
DEC Profile: Horizontal gaze nystagmus not present; vertical gaze nystagmus not present; lack of convergence present; pupil size normal to dilated; reaction to light normal to slow; pulse rate elevated; blood pressure elevated; body temperature normal to elevated. Other characteristic indicators may include odor of marijuana in car or on subject’s breath, marijuana debris in mouth, green coating of tongue, bloodshot eyes, body and eyelid tremors, relaxed inhibitions, incomplete thought process, and poor performance on field sobriety tests.
Please provide the link of the case. Like I said, a green tongue is only an indication of MJ use. You can get a green tongue from sucking on a lolly pop... Weaving is an indication of DUI. Do we arrest everyone for DUI when their weaving? No, We need more of a case than that.Quote:
Quoting kdoswald
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11-12-2008, 09:45 AMsniperRe: DUI in California, First OffenseI missed this earlier post.Quote:
Quoting kdoswald
True, Binaca can effect a PAS machine and produce volotile results. Binaca wound not have been a factor in your PAS results, because you said you completed 30 min worth of FST's. The amount of mouth alcohol produced by Binaca would not register on any machine after that long. I have tried this myself and the effects on testing equipment are gone after minutes of use. If I remember correctly, I tested immediatly after use and it was .11 BAC, 2 min after use, .02 BAC. Soon after .00 BAC.
"Prove he was on 20 hour shift which he stated just to bust DUI's.." A 20 hour shift would be a little overboard. Most departments limit the max an officer to work to around 16 hours (mainly for fatigue/accident related issues). Did he tell you he was working for 20 hours? I have lied / stretched the truth many times to people in the back of my car.
Just to bust DUI's...there are many federal and state grants which provide overtime to officers to specifically go out to "Hunt" for DUI's. This is common and not abnormal. More like proactive policing (preventative maintenance) for fatal car crashes. The programs are for the most part, highly successful. I call it "Fishing".
Don't get me wrong, it seems like there are some technical issues which may help you out a lot. I know were you are coming from, trying to overload the DA's. I've seen it in court also, Defense attorny's who throw enough @#!@ at the wall eventually get something to stick, especially in jury trials. -
11-12-2008, 12:04 PMcdwjavaRe: DUI in California, First Offense
I have to agree with Sniper on most everything he said here ... and, as a DRE myself, with a lot of road time with DUIs, too, I can usually estimate a BAC from the FSTs within .02 (if only alcohol on board), and within .025 by HGN alone.
Proper training and experience is a marvelous thing!
- Carl -
11-12-2008, 08:47 PMkdoswaldRe: DUI in California, First Offense
I admit I drink no question a few times a month normally on weekends at home. If I go out to dinner with a friend I have 2-3 drinks which I freely admit to police. Just out of curiousity I have done Meth in the past twice when I was 19, and about dozen times in my early 20's. I decided after a while next day just was not worth it exhausted no energy etc.. one night partying followed by next day being lazy ass. If I am not dressed for work I have tattos, and like I stated perviously I had bad teeth. If police ask me if I did meth I tell them honestly that I have in the past. Should I deny this?
Actually he did not tell me he was on a 20 hour shift. He did tell me they were on special task force that evening which I completely understand it was a holiday and ALOT of kids walking the streets and I am all for it. They were motorcycle cops could tell by their boots and they told my friend. Friend I was with was a attractive lady in low cut blouse. She is one that was told they were on a 20 hour shift, and where motorcycle cops.
Once in back of car they were fairly nice other then constaly accusing me of being high. We passed a chevy dealer with the new corvette and talked about cars for 15 min. When I was taken to jailhouse not sure of better word for the place. Upon searching me and taking to next officer and taken thumbprints. They did tell next officer I was very cooperative through it all. I was a bit freaked out which they knew.. was pretty obvious. Officer that did the FST, asked me to take my boots office (cowboy boots) since where pointed and could not wear them. Was nice enough to give me my socks in my pocket. Was given them back immediately after questioning in small room, and taken for photos. I must say I liked the officer that took pictures he had sense of humor. I had been asking to go pee since hospital I was ready to pee myself. When I asked him he said sure I am here to serve.
Another stupid question sorry, just curious. I was asked to remove all jewelry. I have tongue and nipple piercings. Why? I took out tongue (pain to get back in).. nipples are CBR so not easy to remove without proper tools so they let me keep those.