Can Parents Limit Who Teenagers Can Date?

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Quoting cyjeff

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Dating is legal in all 50 states with parental permission.

However, the moment that any action done arouses or sexually excites either party, then the line has been crossed.

Florida has some very specific laws around sexual emails, texts and IM's sent to minors by adults.

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Which state is it that makes dating illegal because the parents don't like it?

What state has a law making, oh say, a shoulder rub illegal?

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Quoting ashman165

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Which state is it that makes dating illegal because the parents don't like it?

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All of them.

Listen, I understand you don't like the laws that keep loving children and their adult partners apart, but, in EVERY STATE, judges will hold that parents may mandate with whom their children associate.

Even if it puts a real crimp in your love life.

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What state has a law making, oh say, a shoulder rub illegal?

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I tell you what, let's start with Florida.

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800.04 Lewdly Fondle Or Assault, Commit Or Simulate Sexual Acts On Or In Presence Of A Child Under 16 In A Lewd, Lascivious Or Indecent Manner

A person who:

(1) Handles, fondles, or assaults any child under the age of 16 years in a lewd, lascivious, or indecent manner;

(2) Commits actual or simulated sexual intercourse, deviate sexual intercourse, sexual bestiality, masturbation, sadomasochistic abuse, actual lewd exhibition of the genitals, or any act or conduct which simulates that sexual battery is being or will be committed upon any child under the age of 16 years or forces or entices the child to commit any such act;

(3) Commits an act defined as sexual battery under s. 794.011(1)(h) upon any child under the age of 16 years; or

(4) Knowingly commits any lewd or lascivious act in the presence of any child under the age of 16 years, without committing the crime of sexual battery, commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. Neither the victim’s lack of chastity nor the victim’s consent is a defense to the crime proscribed by this section. A mother’s breastfeeding of her baby does not under any circumstance violate this section.

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And do YOU want to be the adult standing in front of the judge saying, "I swear, Your Honor, even though I am standing here before you, all I was doing was giving the minor a massage!!!!"?

Don't confuse the age of consent with the age of majority.

There is NO state where the age of majority is less than 18. And until the child reaches the age of majority, the parents have 100% say over who their minor child may associate with.

Just because the law in some states may take criminality out of sexual contact for a 16 or 17 year old, does NOT mean that the parent has no say over who their child may associate with. In every state.

If you disagree, please show us the statute that says the parent of a minor child has no control over who the child may see.

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Quoting sometingforyou

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if the case is federal with a 19 year old and 16 year old... and the relationship began in florida, but no sex happened. If parents decide not to prosecute against the 19 year old guy, can the state still prosecute? Even if her parents decided not to?

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If both federal and state law are violated, even for the same substantial crime, BOTH can prosecute, as that does not violate Double Jeopardy, as they are seperate sovereigns.

Arguendo, for some crimes, a parent's wish not to prosecute may have weight, but not where it concerns sexual abuse, etc.

I think it is safe to assume that all states have laws of some kind that permit the prosecution of adults that encourage their minor children to disobey them. The punishments might be minimal, and there might be conditions applied, but I believe all states have something that might be applied.

- Carl

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Quoting cyjeff

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All of them.

Listen, I understand you don't like the laws that keep loving children and their adult partners apart, but, in EVERY STATE, judges will hold that parents may mandate with whom their children associate.

Even if it puts a real crimp in your love life.



I tell you what, let's start with Florida.



And do YOU want to be the adult standing in front of the judge saying, "I swear, Your Honor, even though I am standing here before you, all I was doing was giving the minor a massage!!!!"?

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I read your little statute there. I noticed in there some pesky language about the conduct having to be lewd. I don't know how you do things, but where I am from a shoulder rub isn't sexual, indecent, abusive, or lewd behavior. This is why I chose it instead of, oh say, making out.

Please, don't even purport to imply that I have thing for teenagers, let alone minors. You speak about this as though I'm the OP asking a question about what I can do. Such isn't the case.

It's his question. What I want to have to explain in front of a judge isn't relevant because he and I aren't the same person. Besides, just standing in front of a judge doesn't at all imply guilt.

Please, cite your authority for even - to be generous to your argument - 5 states in which parents may mandate whom their children say they are dating.

There aren't residual proscriptive laws. Only crimes specifically enumerated in law are, well, actually law. But let's assume your argument is actually correct. The parents may prohibit their children from believing they're dating someone. That parental decision isn't enforceable upon the boyfriend/girlfriend of their child. "Your honor, I told my child not to believe she was dating someone. She believes it. Now arrest this someone."

Dating refers to the act of agreeing on a time and "date" when a pair can meet and engage in some social activity." without needing the actual time and place to be set in the near term. I know many people who date long distance. Would you still argue that a parent may prohibit that from a child and legally enforce it?

He did mention that it started in Florida, which implies that it is at least no longer exclusive to Florida. How that's been parsed up, we don't know. Perhaps one of them moved out of state and they no longer live near each other. Perhaps not. We don't know until he answers the question.

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Quoting cbg

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Don't confuse the age of consent with the age of majority.

There is NO state where the age of majority is less than 18. And until the child reaches the age of majority, the parents have 100% say over who their minor child may associate with.

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Again, only things specifically enumerated in law as illegal are in fact actually illegal. Please show me some statute in just - to be generous to your argument - 2 states where this is on the books. If parents had this total dominion over their children which you claim is codified somewhere, then parenting would be quite a bit easier.

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Just because the law in some states may take criminality out of sexual contact for a 16 or 17 year old, does NOT mean that the parent has no say over who their child may associate with. In every state.

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No one suggested they had no say. Of course parents have some say over their children. Indeed, most parents have a great deal of sway over their children. But this wasn't about the degree of say a parent has. This was about criminal conduct. Again, please cite to me a law that if a child disobeys his/her parents as to whom s/he befriends or dates, s/he may be jailed.

If you disagree, please show us the statute that says the parent of a minor child has no control over who the child may see.[/QUOTE]

I needn't cite a law to disprove a negative assumption. Unless conduct is specifically abrogated by law, the conduct isn't criminal. This is why when being brought to trial people are informed of the charges against them. It's not their burden to show there's some specific law which gives them the very freedom from criminal prosecution granted to them by the constitution. Indeed, the SC has many times said that a statute must be written so that a person knows what conduct it is that isn't legal.

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Quoting ashman165

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I read your little statute there. I noticed in there some pesky language about the conduct having to be lewd. I don't know how you do things, but where I am from a shoulder rub isn't sexual, indecent, abusive, or lewd behavior. This is why I chose it instead of, oh say, making out.

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Then maybe you aren't doing it right.

As I also posted, unless you feel comfortable explaining to a judge why you were giving a massage to a minor, I wouldn't recommend it.

Further, the judge can, and has, deemed that contact to be lewd and/or a premise to a sexual act.

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Please, don't even purport to imply that I have thing for teenagers, let alone minors. You speak about this as though I'm the OP asking a question about what I can do. Such isn't the case.

It's his question. What I want to have to explain in front of a judge isn't relevant because he and I aren't the same person. Besides, just standing in front of a judge doesn't at all imply guilt.

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Didn't say it did. I just said what I wouldn't want to try to explain.

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Please, cite your authority for even - to be generous to your argument - 5 states in which parents may mandate whom their children say they are dating.

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Okay...

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado...

In EVERY STATE, a parent may decide with whom a minor child in their care may associate with. In every one... because there is no law IN ANY STATE that outlines the circumstances necessary to PREVENT a parent from deciding with whom a minor child in their care may associate with.

As in most legal issues, if there isn't a law against it, then it must be legal. Further, there is no law or statute that Romeo can flash in front of Juliet's parents that would legally COMPEL them to allow them to date.

Geez... I thought you had kids. How would you feel if some kid showed up at your door and demanded your daughter. Really... think about it.

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There aren't residual proscriptive laws. Only crimes specifically enumerated in law are, well, actually law. But let's assume your argument is actually correct. The parents may prohibit their children from believing they're dating someone. That parental decision isn't enforceable upon the boyfriend/girlfriend of their child. "Your honor, I told my child not to believe she was dating someone. She believes it. Now arrest this someone."

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So are you saying I cannot, legally, prevent my daughter from dating anyone I don't want her to date.

Really?

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Dating refers to the act of agreeing on a time and "date" when a pair can meet and engage in some social activity." without needing the actual time and place to be set in the near term. I know many people who date long distance. Would you still argue that a parent may prohibit that from a child and legally enforce it?

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Yes.

A parent may restrict a child's movements, may remove all communication devices and all other means of meeting, and there isn't a single thing Romeo can do about it.

You tell ME what the officer will say when Romeo runs up to him/her and screams, "They won't let me date their daughter!!!!"

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He did mention that it started in Florida, which implies that it is at least no longer exclusive to Florida. How that's been parsed up, we don't know. Perhaps one of them moved out of state and they no longer live near each other. Perhaps not. We don't know until he answers the question.

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His answer only matters in the number and jurisdiction of the possible charges to be levied.

Listen, you apparently consider yourself something of an intellectual. I tell you what.

Find me one statute in ANY state that would allow Romeo to date Juliet when mommy and daddy say no.

Just one. Heck, I will even include the District of Columbia, Guam and the US Virgin Islands.

Until then, shush. Grown ups are talking.

Here, I did it for you.

Find, in this section in the Florida code, where "not letting a child date someone they really really want to" is subject to law...

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Title V
JUDICIAL BRANCH
Chapter 39
PROCEEDINGS RELATING TO CHILDREN
View Entire Chapter
39.01 Definitions.--When used in this chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:

(1) "Abandoned" or "abandonment" means a situation in which the parent or legal custodian of a child or, in the absence of a parent or legal custodian, the caregiver, while being able, makes no provision for the child's support and has failed to establish or maintain a substantial and positive relationship with the child. For purposes of this subsection, "establish or maintain a substantial and positive relationship" includes, but is not limited to, frequent and regular contact with the child through frequent and regular visitation or frequent and regular communication to or with the child, and the exercise of parental rights and responsibilities. Marginal efforts and incidental or token visits or communications are not sufficient to establish or maintain a substantial and positive relationship with a child. The term does not include a surrendered newborn infant as described in s. 383.50, a "child in need of services" as defined in chapter 984, or a "family in need of services" as defined in chapter 984. The incarceration of a parent, legal custodian, or caregiver responsible for a child's welfare may support a finding of abandonment.

(2) "Abuse" means any willful act or threatened act that results in any physical, mental, or sexual injury or harm that causes or is likely to cause the child's physical, mental, or emotional health to be significantly impaired. Abuse of a child includes acts or omissions. Corporal discipline of a child by a parent or legal custodian for disciplinary purposes does not in itself constitute abuse when it does not result in harm to the child.

(3) "Addictions receiving facility" means a substance abuse service provider as defined in chapter 397.

(4) "Adjudicatory hearing" means a hearing for the court to determine whether or not the facts support the allegations stated in the petition in dependency cases or in termination of parental rights cases.

(5) "Adult" means any natural person other than a child.

(6) "Adoption" means the act of creating the legal relationship between parent and child where it did not exist, thereby declaring the child to be legally the child of the adoptive parents and their heir at law, and entitled to all the rights and privileges and subject to all the obligations of a child born to the adoptive parents in lawful wedlock.

(7) "Alleged juvenile sexual offender" means:

(a) A child 12 years of age or younger who is alleged to have committed a violation of chapter 794, chapter 796, chapter 800, s. 827.071, or s. 847.0133; or

(b) A child who is alleged to have committed any violation of law or delinquent act involving juvenile sexual abuse. "Juvenile sexual abuse" means any sexual behavior which occurs without consent, without equality, or as a result of coercion. For purposes of this paragraph, the following definitions apply:

1. "Coercion" means the exploitation of authority or the use of bribes, threats of force, or intimidation to gain cooperation or compliance.

2. "Equality" means two participants operating with the same level of power in a relationship, neither being controlled nor coerced by the other.

3. "Consent" means an agreement, including all of the following:

a. Understanding what is proposed based on age, maturity, developmental level, functioning, and experience.

b. Knowledge of societal standards for what is being proposed.

c. Awareness of potential consequences and alternatives.

d. Assumption that agreement or disagreement will be accepted equally.

e. Voluntary decision.

f. Mental competence.

Juvenile sexual offender behavior ranges from noncontact sexual behavior such as making obscene phone calls, exhibitionism, voyeurism, and the showing or taking of lewd photographs to varying degrees of direct sexual contact, such as frottage, fondling, digital penetration, rape, fellatio, sodomy, and various other sexually aggressive acts.

(8) "Arbitration" means a process whereby a neutral third person or panel, called an arbitrator or an arbitration panel, considers the facts and arguments presented by the parties and renders a decision which may be binding or nonbinding.

(9) "Authorized agent" or "designee" of the department means an employee, volunteer, or other person or agency determined by the state to be eligible for state-funded risk management coverage, which is assigned or designated by the department to perform duties or exercise powers under this chapter.

(10) "Caregiver" means the parent, legal custodian, permanent guardian, adult household member, or other person responsible for a child's welfare as defined in 1subsection (46).

(11) "Case plan" means a document, as described in s. 39.6011, prepared by the department with input from all parties. The case plan follows the child from the provision of voluntary services through any dependency, foster care, or termination of parental rights proceeding or related activity or process.

(12) "Child" or "youth" means any unmarried person under the age of 18 years who has not been emancipated by order of the court.

(13) "Child protection team" means a team of professionals established by the Department of Health to receive referrals from the protective investigators and protective supervision staff of the department and to provide specialized and supportive services to the program in processing child abuse, abandonment, or neglect cases. A child protection team shall provide consultation to other programs of the department and other persons regarding child abuse, abandonment, or neglect cases.

(14) "Child who has exhibited inappropriate sexual behavior" means a child who is 12 years of age or younger and who has been found by the department or the court to have committed an inappropriate sexual act.

(15) "Child who is found to be dependent" means a child who, pursuant to this chapter, is found by the court:

(a) To have been abandoned, abused, or neglected by the child's parent or parents or legal custodians;

(b) To have been surrendered to the department, the former Department of Health and Rehabilitative Services, or a licensed child-placing agency for purpose of adoption;

(c) To have been voluntarily placed with a licensed child-caring agency, a licensed child-placing agency, an adult relative, the department, or the former Department of Health and Rehabilitative Services, after which placement, under the requirements of this chapter, a case plan has expired and the parent or parents or legal custodians have failed to substantially comply with the requirements of the plan;

(d) To have been voluntarily placed with a licensed child-placing agency for the purposes of subsequent adoption, and a parent or parents have signed a consent pursuant to the Florida Rules of Juvenile Procedure;

(e) To have no parent or legal custodians capable of providing supervision and care; or

(f) To be at substantial risk of imminent abuse, abandonment, or neglect by the parent or parents or legal custodians.

(16) "Child support" means a court-ordered obligation, enforced under chapter 61 and ss. 409.2551-409.2597, for monetary support for the care, maintenance, training, and education of a child.

(17) "Circuit" means any of the 20 judicial circuits as set forth in s. 26.021.

(18) "Comprehensive assessment" or "assessment" means the gathering of information for the evaluation of a child's and caregiver's physical, psychiatric, psychological or mental health, educational, vocational, and social condition and family environment as they relate to the child's and caregiver's need for rehabilitative and treatment services, including substance abuse treatment services, mental health services, developmental services, literacy services, medical services, family services, and other specialized services, as appropriate.

(19) "Concurrent planning" means establishing a permanency goal in a case plan that uses reasonable efforts to reunify the child with the parent, while at the same time establishing another goal that must be one of the following options:

(a) Adoption when a petition for termination of parental rights has been filed or will be filed;

(b) Permanent guardianship of a dependent child under s. 39.6221;

(c) Permanent placement with a fit and willing relative under s. 39.6231; or

(d) Placement in another planned permanent living arrangement under s. 39.6241.

(20) "Court," unless otherwise expressly stated, means the circuit court assigned to exercise jurisdiction under this chapter.

(21) "Department" means the Department of Children and Family Services.

(22) "Diligent efforts by a parent" means a course of conduct which results in a reduction in risk to the child in the child's home that would allow the child to be safely placed permanently back in the home as set forth in the case plan.

(23) "Diligent efforts of social service agency" means reasonable efforts to provide social services or reunification services made by any social service agency that is a party to a case plan.

(24) "Diligent search" means the efforts of a social service agency to locate a parent or prospective parent whose identity or location is unknown, initiated as soon as the social service agency is made aware of the existence of such parent, with the search progress reported at each court hearing until the parent is either identified and located or the court excuses further search.

(25) "Disposition hearing" means a hearing in which the court determines the most appropriate protections, services, and placement for the child in dependency cases.

(26) "District" means any one of the 15 service districts of the department established pursuant to s. 20.19.

(27) "District administrator" means the chief operating officer of each service district of the department as defined in s. 20.19(5) and, where appropriate, includes any district administrator whose service district falls within the boundaries of a judicial circuit.

(28) "Expedited termination of parental rights" means proceedings wherein a case plan with the goal of reunification is not being offered.

(29) "False report" means a report of abuse, neglect, or abandonment of a child to the central abuse hotline, which report is maliciously made for the purpose of:

(a) Harassing, embarrassing, or harming another person;

(b) Personal financial gain for the reporting person;

(c) Acquiring custody of a child; or

(d) Personal benefit for the reporting person in any other private dispute involving a child.

The term "false report" does not include a report of abuse, neglect, or abandonment of a child made in good faith to the central abuse hotline.

(30) "Family" means a collective body of persons, consisting of a child and a parent, legal custodian, or adult relative, in which:

(a) The persons reside in the same house or living unit; or

(b) The parent, legal custodian, or adult relative has a legal responsibility by blood, marriage, or court order to support or care for the child.

(31) "Foster care" means care provided a child in a foster family or boarding home, group home, agency boarding home, child care institution, or any combination thereof.

(32) "Harm" to a child's health or welfare can occur when any person:

(a) Inflicts or allows to be inflicted upon the child physical, mental, or emotional injury. In determining whether harm has occurred, the following factors must be considered in evaluating any physical, mental, or emotional injury to a child: the age of the child; any prior history of injuries to the child; the location of the injury on the body of the child; the multiplicity of the injury; and the type of trauma inflicted. Such injury includes, but is not limited to:

1. Willful acts that produce the following specific injuries:

a. Sprains, dislocations, or cartilage damage.

b. Bone or skull fractures.

c. Brain or spinal cord damage.

d. Intracranial hemorrhage or injury to other internal organs.

e. Asphyxiation, suffocation, or drowning.

f. Injury resulting from the use of a deadly weapon.

g. Burns or scalding.

h. Cuts, lacerations, punctures, or bites.

i. Permanent or temporary disfigurement.

j. Permanent or temporary loss or impairment of a body part or function.

As used in this subparagraph, the term "willful" refers to the intent to perform an action, not to the intent to achieve a result or to cause an injury.

2. Purposely giving a child poison, alcohol, drugs, or other substances that substantially affect the child's behavior, motor coordination, or judgment or that result in sickness or internal injury. For the purposes of this subparagraph, the term "drugs" means prescription drugs not prescribed for the child or not administered as prescribed, and controlled substances as outlined in Schedule I or Schedule II of s. 893.03.

3. Leaving a child without adult supervision or arrangement appropriate for the child's age or mental or physical condition, so that the child is unable to care for the child's own needs or another's basic needs or is unable to exercise good judgment in responding to any kind of physical or emotional crisis.

4. Inappropriate or excessively harsh disciplinary action that is likely to result in physical injury, mental injury as defined in this section, or emotional injury. The significance of any injury must be evaluated in light of the following factors: the age of the child; any prior history of injuries to the child; the location of the injury on the body of the child; the multiplicity of the injury; and the type of trauma inflicted. Corporal discipline may be considered excessive or abusive when it results in any of the following or other similar injuries:

a. Sprains, dislocations, or cartilage damage.

b. Bone or skull fractures.

c. Brain or spinal cord damage.

d. Intracranial hemorrhage or injury to other internal organs.

e. Asphyxiation, suffocation, or drowning.

f. Injury resulting from the use of a deadly weapon.

g. Burns or scalding.

h. Cuts, lacerations, punctures, or bites.

i. Permanent or temporary disfigurement.

j. Permanent or temporary loss or impairment of a body part or function.

k. Significant bruises or welts.

(b) Commits, or allows to be committed, sexual battery, as defined in chapter 794, or lewd or lascivious acts, as defined in chapter 800, against the child.

(c) Allows, encourages, or forces the sexual exploitation of a child, which includes allowing, encouraging, or forcing a child to:

1. Solicit for or engage in prostitution; or

2. Engage in a sexual performance, as defined by chapter 827.

(d) Exploits a child, or allows a child to be exploited, as provided in s. 450.151.

(e) Abandons the child. Within the context of the definition of "harm," the term "abandoned the child" or "abandonment of the child" means a situation in which the parent or legal custodian of a child or, in the absence of a parent or legal custodian, the caregiver, while being able, makes no provision for the child's support and has failed to establish or maintain a substantial and positive relationship with the child. For purposes of this paragraph, "establish or maintain a substantial and positive relationship" includes, but is not limited to, frequent and regular contact with the child through frequent and regular visitation or frequent and regular communication to or with the child, and the exercise of parental rights and responsibilities. Marginal efforts and incidental or token visits or communications are not sufficient to establish or maintain a substantial and positive relationship with a child. The term "abandoned" does not include a surrendered newborn infant as described in s. 383.50.

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But wait... there's more...

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(f) Neglects the child. Within the context of the definition of "harm," the term "neglects the child" means that the parent or other person responsible for the child's welfare fails to supply the child with adequate food, clothing, shelter, or health care, although financially able to do so or although offered financial or other means to do so. However, a parent or legal custodian who, by reason of the legitimate practice of religious beliefs, does not provide specified medical treatment for a child may not be considered abusive or neglectful for that reason alone, but such an exception does not:

1. Eliminate the requirement that such a case be reported to the department;

2. Prevent the department from investigating such a case; or

3. Preclude a court from ordering, when the health of the child requires it, the provision of medical services by a physician, as defined in this section, or treatment by a duly accredited practitioner who relies solely on spiritual means for healing in accordance with the tenets and practices of a well-recognized church or religious organization.

(g) Exposes a child to a controlled substance or alcohol. Exposure to a controlled substance or alcohol is established by:

1. A test, administered at birth, which indicated that the child's blood, urine, or meconium contained any amount of alcohol or a controlled substance or metabolites of such substances, the presence of which was not the result of medical treatment administered to the mother or the newborn infant; or

2. Evidence of extensive, abusive, and chronic use of a controlled substance or alcohol by a parent when the child is demonstrably adversely affected by such usage.

As used in this paragraph, the term "controlled substance" means prescription drugs not prescribed for the parent or not administered as prescribed and controlled substances as outlined in Schedule I or Schedule II of s. 893.03.

(h) Uses mechanical devices, unreasonable restraints, or extended periods of isolation to control a child.

(i) Engages in violent behavior that demonstrates a wanton disregard for the presence of a child and could reasonably result in serious injury to the child.

(j) Negligently fails to protect a child in his or her care from inflicted physical, mental, or sexual injury caused by the acts of another.

(k) Has allowed a child's sibling to die as a result of abuse, abandonment, or neglect.

(l) Makes the child unavailable for the purpose of impeding or avoiding a protective investigation unless the court determines that the parent, legal custodian, or caregiver was fleeing from a situation involving domestic violence.

(33) "Institutional child abuse or neglect" means situations of known or suspected child abuse or neglect in which the person allegedly perpetrating the child abuse or neglect is an employee of a private school, public or private day care center, residential home, institution, facility, or agency or any other person at such institution responsible for the child's care.

(34) "Judge" means the circuit judge exercising jurisdiction pursuant to this chapter.

(35) "Legal custody" means a legal status created by a court which vests in a custodian of the person or guardian, whether an agency or an individual, the right to have physical custody of the child and the right and duty to protect, nurture, guide, and discipline the child and to provide him or her with food, shelter, education, and ordinary medical, dental, psychiatric, and psychological care.

(36) "Licensed child-caring agency" means a person, society, association, or agency licensed by the department to care for, receive, and board children.

(37) "Licensed child-placing agency" means a person, society, association, or institution licensed by the department to care for, receive, or board children and to place children in a licensed child-caring institution or a foster or adoptive home.

(38) "Licensed health care professional" means a physician licensed under chapter 458, an osteopathic physician licensed under chapter 459, a nurse licensed under part I of chapter 464, a physician assistant licensed under chapter 458 or chapter 459, or a dentist licensed under chapter 466.

(39) "Likely to injure oneself" means that, as evidenced by violent or other actively self-destructive behavior, it is more likely than not that within a 24-hour period the child will attempt to commit suicide or inflict serious bodily harm on himself or herself.

(40) "Likely to injure others" means that it is more likely than not that within a 24-hour period the child will inflict serious and unjustified bodily harm on another person.

(41) "Mediation" means a process whereby a neutral third person called a mediator acts to encourage and facilitate the resolution of a dispute between two or more parties. It is an informal and nonadversarial process with the objective of helping the disputing parties reach a mutually acceptable and voluntary agreement. The role of the mediator includes, but is not limited to, assisting the parties in identifying issues, fostering joint problem solving, and exploring settlement alternatives.

(42) "Mental injury" means an injury to the intellectual or psychological capacity of a child as evidenced by a discernible and substantial impairment in the ability to function within the normal range of performance and behavior.

(43) "Necessary medical treatment" means care which is necessary within a reasonable degree of medical certainty to prevent the deterioration of a child's condition or to alleviate immediate pain of a child.

(44) "Neglect" occurs when a child is deprived of, or is allowed to be deprived of, necessary food, clothing, shelter, or medical treatment or a child is permitted to live in an environment when such deprivation or environment causes the child's physical, mental, or emotional health to be significantly impaired or to be in danger of being significantly impaired. The foregoing circumstances shall not be considered neglect if caused primarily by financial inability unless actual services for relief have been offered to and rejected by such person. A parent or legal custodian legitimately practicing religious beliefs in accordance with a recognized church or religious organization who thereby does not provide specific medical treatment for a child may not, for that reason alone, be considered a negligent parent or legal custodian; however, such an exception does not preclude a court from ordering the following services to be provided, when the health of the child so requires:

(a) Medical services from a licensed physician, dentist, optometrist, podiatric physician, or other qualified health care provider; or

(b) Treatment by a duly accredited practitioner who relies solely on spiritual means for healing in accordance with the tenets and practices of a well-recognized church or religious organization.

Neglect of a child includes acts or omissions.

(45) "Next of kin" means an adult relative of a child who is the child's brother, sister, grandparent, aunt, uncle, or first cousin.

(46) "Office" means the Office of Adoption and Child Protection within the Executive Office of the Governor.

(47) "Other person responsible for a child's welfare" includes the child's legal guardian or foster parent; an employee of any school, public or private child day care center, residential home, institution, facility, or agency; a law enforcement officer employed in any facility, service, or program for children that is operated or contracted by the Department of Juvenile Justice; or any other person legally responsible for the child's welfare in a residential setting; and also includes an adult sitter or relative entrusted with a child's care. For the purpose of departmental investigative jurisdiction, this definition does not include the following persons when they are acting in an official capacity: law enforcement officers, except as otherwise provided in this subsection; employees of municipal or county detention facilities; or employees of the Department of Corrections.

(48) "Out-of-home" means a placement outside of the home of the parents or a parent.

(49) "Parent" means a woman who gives birth to a child and a man whose consent to the adoption of the child would be required under s. 63.062(1). If a child has been legally adopted, the term "parent" means the adoptive mother or father of the child. The term does not include an individual whose parental relationship to the child has been legally terminated, or an alleged or prospective parent, unless the parental status falls within the terms of s. 39.503(1) or s. 63.062(1). For purposes of this chapter only, when the phrase "parent or legal custodian" is used, it refers to rights or responsibilities of the parent and, only if there is no living parent with intact parental rights, to the rights or responsibilities of the legal custodian who has assumed the role of the parent.

(50) "Participant," for purposes of a shelter proceeding, dependency proceeding, or termination of parental rights proceeding, means any person who is not a party but who should receive notice of hearings involving the child, including the actual custodian of the child, the foster parents or the legal custodian of the child, identified prospective parents, and any other person whose participation may be in the best interest of the child. A community-based agency under contract with the department to provide protective services may be designated as a participant at the discretion of the court. Participants may be granted leave by the court to be heard without the necessity of filing a motion to intervene.

(51) "Party" means the parent or parents of the child, the petitioner, the department, the guardian ad litem or the representative of the guardian ad litem program when the program has been appointed, and the child. The presence of the child may be excused by order of the court when presence would not be in the child's best interest. Notice to the child may be excused by order of the court when the age, capacity, or other condition of the child is such that the notice would be meaningless or detrimental to the child.

(52) "Permanency goal" means the living arrangement identified for the child to return to or identified as the permanent living arrangement of the child. Permanency goals applicable under this chapter, listed in order of preference, are:

(a) Reunification;

(b) Adoption when a petition for termination of parental rights has been or will be filed;

(c) Permanent guardianship of a dependent child under s. 39.6221;

(d) Permanent placement with a fit and willing relative under s. 39.6231; or

(e) Placement in another planned permanent living arrangement under s. 39.6241.

The permanency goal is also the case plan goal. If concurrent case planning is being used, reunification may be pursued at the same time that another permanency goal is pursued.

(53) "Permanency plan" means the plan that establishes the placement intended to serve as the child's permanent home.

(54) "Permanent guardian" means the relative or other adult in a permanent guardianship of a dependent child under s. 39.6221.

(55) "Permanent guardianship of a dependent child" means a legal relationship that a court creates under s. 39.6221 between a child and a relative or other adult approved by the court which is intended to be permanent and self-sustaining through the transfer of parental rights with respect to the child relating to protection, education, care and control of the person, custody of the person, and decisionmaking on behalf of the child.

(56) "Physical injury" means death, permanent or temporary disfigurement, or impairment of any bodily part.

(57) "Physician" means any licensed physician, dentist, podiatric physician, or optometrist and includes any intern or resident.

(58) "Preliminary screening" means the gathering of preliminary information to be used in determining a child's need for further evaluation or assessment or for referral for other substance abuse services through means such as psychosocial interviews; urine and breathalyzer screenings; and reviews of available educational, delinquency, and dependency records of the child.

(59) "Preventive services" means social services and other supportive and rehabilitative services provided to the parent or legal custodian of the child and to the child for the purpose of averting the removal of the child from the home or disruption of a family which will or could result in the placement of a child in foster care. Social services and other supportive and rehabilitative services shall promote the child's need for physical, mental, and emotional health and a safe, stable, living environment, shall promote family autonomy, and shall strengthen family life, whenever possible.

---

Still more...

Still nothing about dating, though... hmmm.....

Quote:

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(60) "Prospective parent" means a person who claims to be, or has been identified as, a person who may be a mother or a father of a child.

(61) "Protective investigation" means the acceptance of a report alleging child abuse, abandonment, or neglect, as defined in this chapter, by the central abuse hotline or the acceptance of a report of other dependency by the department; the investigation of each report; the determination of whether action by the court is warranted; the determination of the disposition of each report without court or public agency action when appropriate; and the referral of a child to another public or private agency when appropriate.

(62) "Protective investigator" means an authorized agent of the department who receives and investigates reports of child abuse, abandonment, or neglect; who, as a result of the investigation, may recommend that a dependency petition be filed for the child; and who performs other duties necessary to carry out the required actions of the protective investigation function.

(63) "Protective supervision" means a legal status in dependency cases which permits the child to remain safely in his or her own home or other nonlicensed placement under the supervision of an agent of the department and which must be reviewed by the court during the period of supervision.

(64) "Relative" means a grandparent, great-grandparent, sibling, first cousin, aunt, uncle, great-aunt, great-uncle, niece, or nephew, whether related by the whole or half blood, by affinity, or by adoption. The term does not include a stepparent.

(65) "Reunification services" means social services and other supportive and rehabilitative services provided to the parent of the child, to the child, and, where appropriate, to the relative placement, nonrelative placement, or foster parents of the child, for the purpose of enabling a child who has been placed in out-of-home care to safely return to his or her parent at the earliest possible time. The health and safety of the child shall be the paramount goal of social services and other supportive and rehabilitative services. The services shall promote the child's need for physical, mental, and emotional health and a safe, stable, living environment, shall promote family autonomy, and shall strengthen family life, whenever possible.

(66) "Secretary" means the Secretary of Children and Family Services.

(67) "Sexual abuse of a child" means one or more of the following acts:

(a) Any penetration, however slight, of the vagina or anal opening of one person by the penis of another person, whether or not there is the emission of semen.

(b) Any sexual contact between the genitals or anal opening of one person and the mouth or tongue of another person.

(c) Any intrusion by one person into the genitals or anal opening of another person, including the use of any object for this purpose, except that this does not include any act intended for a valid medical purpose.

(d) The intentional touching of the genitals or intimate parts, including the breasts, genital area, groin, inner thighs, and buttocks, or the clothing covering them, of either the child or the perpetrator, except that this does not include:

1. Any act which may reasonably be construed to be a normal caregiver responsibility, any interaction with, or affection for a child; or

2. Any act intended for a valid medical purpose.

(e) The intentional masturbation of the perpetrator's genitals in the presence of a child.

(f) The intentional exposure of the perpetrator's genitals in the presence of a child, or any other sexual act intentionally perpetrated in the presence of a child, if such exposure or sexual act is for the purpose of sexual arousal or gratification, aggression, degradation, or other similar purpose.

(g) The sexual exploitation of a child, which includes allowing, encouraging, or forcing a child to:

1. Solicit for or engage in prostitution; or

2. Engage in a sexual performance, as defined by chapter 827.

(68) "Shelter" means a placement with a relative or a nonrelative, or in a licensed home or facility, for the temporary care of a child who is alleged to be or who has been found to be dependent, pending court disposition before or after adjudication.

(69) "Shelter hearing" means a hearing in which the court determines whether probable cause exists to keep a child in shelter status pending further investigation of the case.

(70) "Social service agency" means the department, a licensed child-caring agency, or a licensed child-placing agency.

(71) "Social worker" means any person who has a bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degree in social work.

(72) "Substance abuse" means using, without medical reason, any psychoactive or mood-altering drug, including alcohol, in such a manner as to induce impairment resulting in dysfunctional social behavior.

(73) "Substantial compliance" means that the circumstances which caused the creation of the case plan have been significantly remedied to the extent that the well-being and safety of the child will not be endangered upon the child's remaining with or being returned to the child's parent.

(74) "Taken into custody" means the status of a child immediately when temporary physical control over the child is attained by a person authorized by law, pending the child's release or placement.

(75) "Temporary legal custody" means the relationship that a court creates between a child and an adult relative of the child, legal custodian, agency, or other person approved by the court until a more permanent arrangement is ordered. Temporary legal custody confers upon the custodian the right to have temporary physical custody of the child and the right and duty to protect, nurture, guide, and discipline the child and to provide the child with food, shelter, and education, and ordinary medical, dental, psychiatric, and psychological care, unless these rights and duties are otherwise enlarged or limited by the court order establishing the temporary legal custody relationship.

(76) "Victim" means any child who has sustained or is threatened with physical, mental, or emotional injury identified in a report involving child abuse, neglect, or abandonment, or child-on-child sexual abuse.

---

But let's go farther....

How to lose parental rights... notice, again, there is no mention of "violating the romantic wants of minor child"...

Quote:

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Title V
JUDICIAL BRANCH
Chapter 39
PROCEEDINGS RELATING TO CHILDREN
View Entire Chapter
39.806 Grounds for termination of parental rights.--

(1) Grounds for the termination of parental rights may be established under any of the following circumstances:

(a) When the parent or parents have voluntarily executed a written surrender of the child and consented to the entry of an order giving custody of the child to the department for subsequent adoption and the department is willing to accept custody of the child.

1. The surrender document must be executed before two witnesses and a notary public or other person authorized to take acknowledgments.

2. The surrender and consent may be withdrawn after acceptance by the department only after a finding by the court that the surrender and consent were obtained by fraud or under duress.

(b) Abandonment as defined in s. 39.01(1) or when the identity or location of the parent or parents is unknown and cannot be ascertained by diligent search within 60 days.

(c) When the parent or parents engaged in conduct toward the child or toward other children that demonstrates that the continuing involvement of the parent or parents in the parent-child relationship threatens the life, safety, well-being, or physical, mental, or emotional health of the child irrespective of the provision of services. Provision of services may be evidenced by proof that services were provided through a previous plan or offered as a case plan from a child welfare agency.

(d) When the parent of a child is incarcerated in a state or federal correctional institution and either:

1. The period of time for which the parent is expected to be incarcerated will constitute a substantial portion of the period of time before the child will attain the age of 18 years;

2. The incarcerated parent has been determined by the court to be a violent career criminal as defined in s. 775.084, a habitual violent felony offender as defined in s. 775.084, or a sexual predator as defined in s. 775.21; has been convicted of first degree or second degree murder in violation of s. 782.04 or a sexual battery that constitutes a capital, life, or first degree felony violation of s. 794.011; or has been convicted of an offense in another jurisdiction which is substantially similar to one of the offenses listed in this paragraph. As used in this section, the term "substantially similar offense" means any offense that is substantially similar in elements and penalties to one of those listed in this subparagraph, and that is in violation of a law of any other jurisdiction, whether that of another state, the District of Columbia, the United States or any possession or territory thereof, or any foreign jurisdiction; or

3. The court determines by clear and convincing evidence that continuing the parental relationship with the incarcerated parent would be harmful to the child and, for this reason, that termination of the parental rights of the incarcerated parent is in the best interest of the child.

(e) When a child has been adjudicated dependent, a case plan has been filed with the court, and:

1. The child continues to be abused, neglected, or abandoned by the parent or parents. The failure of the parent or parents to substantially comply with the case plan for a period of 9 months after an adjudication of the child as a dependent child or the child's placement into shelter care, whichever occurs first, constitutes evidence of continuing abuse, neglect, or abandonment unless the failure to substantially comply with the case plan was due to the parent's lack of financial resources or to the failure of the department to make reasonable efforts to reunify the parent and child. The 9-month period begins to run only after the child's placement into shelter care or the entry of a disposition order placing the custody of the child with the department or a person other than the parent and the court's approval of a case plan having the goal of reunification with the parent, whichever occurs first;

2. The parent or parents have materially breached the case plan. Time is of the essence for permanency of children in the dependency system. In order to prove the parent or parents have materially breached the case plan, the court must find by clear and convincing evidence that the parent or parents are unlikely or unable to substantially comply with the case plan before time to comply with the case plan expires.

(f) The parent or parents engaged in egregious conduct or had the opportunity and capability to prevent and knowingly failed to prevent egregious conduct that threatens the life, safety, or physical, mental, or emotional health of the child or the child's sibling.

1. As used in this subsection, the term "sibling" means another child who resides with or is cared for by the parent or parents regardless of whether the child is related legally or by consanguinity.

2. As used in this subsection, the term "egregious conduct" means abuse, abandonment, neglect, or any other conduct that is deplorable, flagrant, or outrageous by a normal standard of conduct. Egregious conduct may include an act or omission that occurred only once but was of such intensity, magnitude, or severity as to endanger the life of the child.

(g) The parent or parents have subjected the child or another child to aggravated child abuse as defined in s. 827.03, sexual battery or sexual abuse as defined in s. 39.01, or chronic abuse.

(h) The parent or parents have committed the murder, manslaughter, aiding or abetting the murder, or conspiracy or solicitation to murder the other parent or another child, or a felony battery that resulted in serious bodily injury to the child or to another child.

(i) The parental rights of the parent to a sibling of the child have been terminated involuntarily.

(j) The parent or parents have a history of extensive, abusive, and chronic use of alcohol or a controlled substance which renders them incapable of caring for the child, and have refused or failed to complete available treatment for such use during the 3-year period immediately preceding the filing of the petition for termination of parental rights.

(k) A test administered at birth that indicated that the child's blood, urine, or meconium contained any amount of alcohol or a controlled substance or metabolites of such substances, the presence of which was not the result of medical treatment administered to the mother or the newborn infant, and the biological mother of the child is the biological mother of at least one other child who was adjudicated dependent after a finding of harm to the child's health or welfare due to exposure to a controlled substance or alcohol as defined in 1s. 39.01(31)(g), after which the biological mother had the opportunity to participate in substance abuse treatment.

(l) On three or more occasions the child or another child of the parent or parents has been placed in out-of-home care pursuant to this chapter, and the conditions that led to the child's out-of-home placement were caused by the parent or parents.

(2) Reasonable efforts to preserve and reunify families are not required if a court of competent jurisdiction has determined that any of the events described in paragraphs (1)(e)-(l) have occurred.

(3) If a petition for termination of parental rights is filed under subsection (1), a separate petition for dependency need not be filed and the department need not offer the parents a case plan having a goal of reunification, but may instead file with the court a case plan having a goal of termination of parental rights to allow continuation of services until the termination is granted or until further orders of the court are issued.

(4) If an expedited termination of parental rights petition is filed, reasonable efforts shall be made to place the child in a timely manner in accordance with the permanency plan, and to complete whatever steps are necessary to finalize the permanent placement of the child.

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Now, you may be saying to yourself.... why is this guy all hot and bothered about it...

Because you don't understand teenagers.

Teenagers will ignore the five million times we said "do what your parents tell you to do" in favor of ONE idiot that says, "Show me where parents can stop you from dating."

I hope you are really really proud of yourself. If you are going to play intellectual ivory tower logic games, do it on your own time.

Quote:

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Further, the judge can, and has, deemed that contact to be lewd and/or a premise to a sexual act.

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So the hypothetical judge we're talking about has actually made a ruling? I again, not to be belabor the original request actually put to you, would appreciate 1 citation of law which disproves my point.

You have apparently missed the point of OP's question: he didn't ask what steps he must take to date anyone; that's a different question. He asked what laws he might be violating and what can be done to him.

Claiming to date someone (and I'll assume the gal in this believes they're dating as well) is wholly beyond the province of parental control. They may well control where she may go, but they most assuredly can't alter what she believes. Again, dating doesn't imply sex or indeed any physical contact.

You're sitting here working under some goofy notion that any of this was about what rights the boyfriend has to compel the parents to produce their daughter to him physically. Nothing in his post or my response dealt with that.

Again, I await even a single citation. I see you listed a few states which you claim have laws on the books proving your point. Please cite the law.

You're missing the point.

There does not have to be a law giving the parents permission to decide whom their minor child may date. They may make that decision because there is no law prohibiting them from doing so.

So YOU show us the law that says the child may date anyone they want, with or without sexual congress, and the parent may not do anything about it.

Quote:

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Quoting cbg

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You're missing the point.

There does not have to be a law giving the parents permission to decide whom their minor child may date. They may make that decision because there is no law prohibiting them from doing so.

So YOU show us the law that says the child may date anyone they want, with or without sexual congress, and the parent may not do anything about it.

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Please read the definition of dating. As I've twice now said, and once posted a link you're free to click, dating doesn't require any physical contact.

Gee, I don't know, CBG, courts have said in many instances there are limits over the degree of dominion control parents have over their teenaged children. Thas included most notably property rights (against the parents, for the child), finances (again against parents and in favor of children), and reproductive rights (again against the parents).

Just because you think that you as a parent have complete and utter, unadulterated control over your child's every move in life doesn't make it so. They aren't your property; they are human beings who do indeed have rights - even if you want them to be mere automatons whose sole purpose it is to serve you.

While it's true that parents have considerable say over what their children may and may not do, it's far from absolute - despite your assertions.

But again, this thread isn't about all that. It's about what the parents may do to this guy.

In short, if the guy encourages or aids the girl in acts of disobedience to her parents, he may find himself charged with a crime. Most states (I do not say all as I do not know the laws in all 50 states) make it a criminal offense to aid or encourage a child to be out of control of their parent or guardian. It's not so much about the Webster's definition of dating, it's about usurping the lawful control of the parent.

That being said, if the couple meet at school, or run into each other out and about, there is likely no crime for the meeting. But, if she runs away and he picks her up or calls her and tells her to sneak out so they can hook, he has a problem.

- Carl

Quote:

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Quoting cdwjava

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In short, if the guy encourages or aids the girl in acts of disobedience to her parents, he may find himself charged with a crime. Most states (I do not say all as I do not know the laws in all 50 states) make it a criminal offense to aid or encourage a child to be out of control of their parent or guardian. It's not so much about the Webster's definition of dating, it's about usurping the lawful control of the parent.

That being said, if the couple meet at school, or run into each other out and about, there is likely no crime for the meeting. But, if she runs away and he picks her up or calls her and tells her to sneak out so they can hook, he has a problem.

- Carl

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And I don't disagree with any of that. But as I've said a number of times, this was about what the OP asked. I asked him 2 questions, as noted above, and somehow I'm the originator of this topic.

He said that dating is legal in all 50 states with the parents' permission. This necessarily implies that without parent permission, dating is illegal in all 50 states. That isn't the case.

Nor has he presented a single scrap of evidence to support his claim that absent specific parental approval, dating is illegal.

Nor has it been shown that a parent may specifically prohibit whom their children date, which is distinguishable from whom their children may shag. But that wasn't at issue here.

Nor was it at issue here whether or not OP was encouraging his girlfriend to break any law to see him. Reading that into his questions throws into what he wanted to know something which is entirely speculative.

Of course, I'll be lambasted for switching topics. But I had to contend with the information provided by 3 or 4 different people in response to my response to OP. None of whom, it's worth noting, has come up with an iota of statutory law, or even case law, supporting their claim that parents exert complete and total dominion over their teenaged children.

I still await some positively asserted law that in and of itself a child choosing to date anyone against the wishes of their parents is illegal and that said child may be arrested, jailed or fined for it.

Of course, that wasn't what OP's question was about, but that's where this topic was taken by the original responders. His question involved what can he be charged with simply for dating someone. No law has been presented that all by itself just dating her is a crime. Much moral indignation has abounded, but, alas, no citation of law.

I don't know why you are being intentionally dense, but you are starting to sound stupid.

Let's play lawyer.

I am Romeo. I really want to date Juliet, but her mean old daddy says no. We both live in Florida.

What statute, EXACTLY, do I wave in front of old man Capulet that would demand him give me his daughter?

You keep demanding the statutes that allow it. There aren't any save for the ones I have ALREADY posted that demand that parents care for all of the needs of their children and protect them from harm... physical and emotional.



You have a 13 year old child. Do you believe you have the right to tell him/her "No" when they tell you they want to go to the mall with this really cool guy they met online?

Quote:

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Quoting ashman165

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And I don't disagree with any of that. But as I've said a number of times, this was about what the OP asked. I asked him 2 questions, as noted above, and somehow I'm the originator of this topic.

He said that dating is legal in all 50 states with the parents' permission. This necessarily implies that without parent permission, dating is illegal in all 50 states. That isn't the case.

Nor has he presented a single scrap of evidence to support his claim that absent specific parental approval, dating is illegal.

Nor has it been shown that a parent may specifically prohibit whom their children date, which is distinguishable from whom their children may shag. But that wasn't at issue here.

Nor was it at issue here whether or not OP was encouraging his girlfriend to break any law to see him. Reading that into his questions throws into what he wanted to know something which is entirely speculative.

Of course, I'll be lambasted for switching topics. But I had to contend with the information provided by 3 or 4 different people in response to my response to OP. None of whom, it's worth noting, has come up with an iota of statutory law, or even case law, supporting their claim that parents exert complete and total dominion over their teenaged children.

I still await some positively asserted law that in and of itself a child choosing to date anyone against the wishes of their parents is illegal and that said child may be arrested, jailed or fined for it.

Of course, that wasn't what OP's question was about, but that's where this topic was taken by the original responders. His question involved what can he be charged with simply for dating someone. No law has been presented that all by itself just dating her is a crime. Much moral indignation has abounded, but, alas, no citation of law.

---

Don't be intentionally moronic. It doesn't suit you.

While a child cannot be jailed for dating someone their parents do not like, many jurisdictions CAN incarcerate a child for "unruly" and uncontrollable behavior.

Which his/her parents are the primary source of information.

Again, you must have an interesting family. Strangers drive up to your home and remove your children and you don't think you can stop them. Do you work it like a library....

Of course not. You decide where your child goes and doesn't go. If the child doesn't do what you want, you take things away... even freedom... and it is all perfectly legal.

Get over yourself... again, just because you want to play intellectual and apply your vast brain to one of the more obvious facets of family law doesn't mean that you should waste our time with it.

Quote:

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Quoting cyjeff

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I don't know why you are being intentionally dense, but you are starting to sound stupid.

Let's play lawyer.

I am Romeo. I really want to date Juliet, but her mean old daddy says no. We both live in Florida.

What statute, EXACTLY, do I wave in front of old man Capulet that would demand him give me his daughter?

You keep demanding the statutes that allow it. There aren't any save for the ones I have ALREADY posted that demand that parents care for all of the needs of their children and protect them from harm... physical and emotional.



You have a 13 year old child. Do you believe you have the right to tell him/her "No" when they tell you they want to go to the mall with this really cool guy they met online?

---

You're free, of course, to foist your scenario into this discussion. But your scenario has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation we're having.

This was not a question of if the young man can force the parents to let him take their daughter anywhere. This was a discussion if the parents can prevent him from dating her by means of criminal prosecution. Please look up the definition of dating so as to understand it. Thanks in advance. ^_^

Nothing mentioned in any of the discussion (except for the one you're having) had anything to do with the rights of the dude in question to force dear old mom and dad to surrender to him the personage of their daughter.

That you're using a Romeo and Juliet argument is probably ironic and an unintentional implication of the anachronistic view you're holding. Maybe it isn't. This isn't the 17th century. Children are no longer considered property to be dealt with on the whim of a parent. Nor do parents hold unfettered dominion over their teenaged children. The law is routinely being held that teenaged children have rights granted to them by our constitution and laws which are just as inalienable as those of adults, extending even beyond the reach and power of their parents.

And it isn't from these supposed "activist" judges the religious right would have us believe are in most courts. It's a combination of law enacted by a legislature and case law.

Moreover, this supposed harm you seem to think exists is entirely a beast of your imaginings, supported by no information at all. It wasn't included in OP's questions. To assume that this girl is being harmed is rank speculation based entirely off of . . . well, what are you basing it on?

There isn't a number of witty(ish) attempts to sidestep the issue and refuse to cite the laws you imply you know which makes your argument suddenly replace the legal duties and obligations of anyone.

Your ability to take the matter actually at issue, rephrase it, and make it something new revolving around an entirely different (and hypothetical) situation doesn't somehow make it an answer to the questions actually put to you.

While they may still live in Florida, that isn't the most natural reading of his statement. How many people mention a state in which something started if they're still in that same state?

"I started dating my girlfriend in Washington."

"Where'd you break up?"

"Washington. What makes you ask that?"

That's just not how people talk, again, where I'm from. As far as it being used in scholarly writing and as a term of art in narrative exegesis, nothing in his post led me to believe he's particular erudite. I'm not sure anyone would have much of an argument to that effect.

Your assertion that I keep demanding of you to post a law which allows "Romeo" here to force the parents to let their daughter out of the house belies the plain record patently delineated in the actual text of this discussion.

I have done nothing of the sort. I specifically asked of you to cite 2, just 2, laws in any of the states (out of the 50 states you claim actually have such laws)which make criminal a teenager choosing to date someone of their own choice. How you read that to ask what law can give authority to some random third person to force a parent to give their blessing is beyond me. Then again, I'm dense and stupid.

Since you've asserted that all 50 states have a law making it illegal, the task of citing only 2 should be easily bested.

Quote:

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That's just not how people talk, again, where I'm from. As far as it being used in scholarly writing and as a term of art in narrative exegesis, nothing in his post led me to believe he's particular erudite. I'm not sure anyone would have much of an argument to that effect.

Your assertion that I keep demanding of you to post a law which allows "Romeo" here to force the parents to let their daughter out of the house belies the plain record patently delineated in the actual text of this discussion.

---

Again, I said they can date with parental permission.

Mommy and Daddy have to allow the daughter to go out. That would be the parental permission part.

They can, therefore, also refuse to give that permission. That refusal is legal and there is no law that will force a parent to change that decision in any jurisdiction.

There is no law on the books that says you must keep them away from a hot stove. There IS a law that says a failure to protect the children can cost you your children.

Every parent has the right, by law, to raise their children as they see fit as long as that rearing does not violate stated law.

Quote:

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I have done nothing of the sort. I specifically asked of you to cite 2, just 2, laws in any of the states (out of the 50 states you claim actually have such laws)which make criminal a teenager choosing to date someone of their own choice. How you read that to ask what law can give authority to some random third person to force a parent to give their blessing is beyond me. Then again, I'm dense and stupid.

---

Apparently.

You said that parental permission was not necessary. That is wrong.

Quote:

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Since you've asserted that all 50 states have a law making it illegal, the task of citing only 2 should be easily bested.

---

You know, for a smart guy, you sure don't read very well.

There is no law stating what parenting is.... just what it isn't. Therefore, anything a parent does up to those specific statutes is fair game.

Including not letting that child date. Therefore, dating is legal as long as mom and dad says you can.

Why is that hard for you?

Quote:

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Quoting cyjeff

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Again, I said they can date with parental permission.

Mommy and Daddy have to allow the daughter to go out. That would be the parental permission part.

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This is your argument, not mine. You state this as though it's relevant. I'm aware of your position, and you're aware of mine. Why needlessly fill space reciting the one thing we agree one: the topic about which we disagree?

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They can, therefore, also refuse to give that permission. That refusal is legal and there is no law that will force a parent to change that decision in any jurisdiction.

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Again, you're merely iterating your argument. No one has denied that the parents can refuse permission. This hasn't been at issue. The issue is whether or not their child may be jailed, prosecuted, fined, flogged, or whatever by the state for refusing to stop dating someone. You have still failed to show this law.

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There is no law on the books that says you must keep them away from a hot stove. There IS a law that says a failure to protect the children can cost you your children.

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Again, the harm argument. What evidence do you have this young man is burning her? How is your analogy at all relevant? Since it hasn't been capitulated that said dude is shagging said 15 year old, beating her, or whatever, how is this at all related to the topic? Or are you suggesting that he is indeed harming her?

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Every parent has the right, by law, to raise their children as they see fit as long as that rearing does not violate stated law.

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Again, please cite this supposed law.

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You said that parental permission was not necessary. That is wrong.

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No matter how many times you claim this is the law, it doesn't make it law. A citation would completely bolster your claim while simultaneously serving as the ruination of mine. You have still failed to cite this law you keep claiming.

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You know, for a smart guy, you sure don't read very well.

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Yet I'm not the one who can't seem to understand what the topic is.

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There is no law stating what parenting is.... just what it isn't. Therefore, anything a parent does up to those specific statutes is fair game.

Including not letting that child date. Therefore, dating is legal as long as mom and dad says you can.

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Please, cite the law that makes dating illegal in and of itself if mommy and daddy say no.

Why is that hard for you?

Please cite the law that makes it illegal for a parent to stop their minor child from dating.

Why is that hard for you?

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Quoting ashman165

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Please, cite the law that makes dating illegal in and of itself if mommy and daddy say no.

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Without checking any states, this "may" come under the general catchphrase heading of being an "unruly" minor or an "incorrigible" minor, synonomous with delinquent.

Okay, I give up.

Can anyone here translate into moron?

Tell the yahoo that parents are the ultimate authority over their own minor children in a way he can understand.

Then join me in praying for his children. They are probably out on a date right now.