You're free, of course, to foist your scenario into this discussion. But your scenario has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation we're having.Quote:
Quoting cyjeff
This was not a question of if the young man can force the parents to let him take their daughter anywhere. This was a discussion if the parents can prevent him from dating her by means of criminal prosecution. Please look up the definition of dating so as to understand it. Thanks in advance. ^_^
Nothing mentioned in any of the discussion (except for the one you're having) had anything to do with the rights of the dude in question to force dear old mom and dad to surrender to him the personage of their daughter.
That you're using a Romeo and Juliet argument is probably ironic and an unintentional implication of the anachronistic view you're holding. Maybe it isn't. This isn't the 17th century. Children are no longer considered property to be dealt with on the whim of a parent. Nor do parents hold unfettered dominion over their teenaged children. The law is routinely being held that teenaged children have rights granted to them by our constitution and laws which are just as inalienable as those of adults, extending even beyond the reach and power of their parents.
And it isn't from these supposed "activist" judges the religious right would have us believe are in most courts. It's a combination of law enacted by a legislature and case law.
Moreover, this supposed harm you seem to think exists is entirely a beast of your imaginings, supported by no information at all. It wasn't included in OP's questions. To assume that this girl is being harmed is rank speculation based entirely off of . . . well, what are you basing it on?
There isn't a number of witty(ish) attempts to sidestep the issue and refuse to cite the laws you imply you know which makes your argument suddenly replace the legal duties and obligations of anyone.
Your ability to take the matter actually at issue, rephrase it, and make it something new revolving around an entirely different (and hypothetical) situation doesn't somehow make it an answer to the questions actually put to you.
While they may still live in Florida, that isn't the most natural reading of his statement. How many people mention a state in which something started if they're still in that same state?
"I started dating my girlfriend in Washington."
"Where'd you break up?"
"Washington. What makes you ask that?"
That's just not how people talk, again, where I'm from. As far as it being used in scholarly writing and as a term of art in narrative exegesis, nothing in his post led me to believe he's particular erudite. I'm not sure anyone would have much of an argument to that effect.
Your assertion that I keep demanding of you to post a law which allows "Romeo" here to force the parents to let their daughter out of the house belies the plain record patently delineated in the actual text of this discussion.
I have done nothing of the sort. I specifically asked of you to cite 2, just 2, laws in any of the states (out of the 50 states you claim actually have such laws)which make criminal a teenager choosing to date someone of their own choice. How you read that to ask what law can give authority to some random third person to force a parent to give their blessing is beyond me. Then again, I'm dense and stupid.
Since you've asserted that all 50 states have a law making it illegal, the task of citing only 2 should be easily bested.
Can Parents Limit Who Teenagers Can Date?
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10-15-2008, 02:28 PMashman165Re: Can Parents Limit Who Teenagers Can Date?
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10-15-2008, 03:02 PMcyjeffRe: Can Parents Limit Who Teenagers Can Date?Again, I said they can date with parental permission.Quote:
That's just not how people talk, again, where I'm from. As far as it being used in scholarly writing and as a term of art in narrative exegesis, nothing in his post led me to believe he's particular erudite. I'm not sure anyone would have much of an argument to that effect.
Your assertion that I keep demanding of you to post a law which allows "Romeo" here to force the parents to let their daughter out of the house belies the plain record patently delineated in the actual text of this discussion.
Mommy and Daddy have to allow the daughter to go out. That would be the parental permission part.
They can, therefore, also refuse to give that permission. That refusal is legal and there is no law that will force a parent to change that decision in any jurisdiction.
There is no law on the books that says you must keep them away from a hot stove. There IS a law that says a failure to protect the children can cost you your children.
Every parent has the right, by law, to raise their children as they see fit as long as that rearing does not violate stated law.
Apparently.Quote:
I have done nothing of the sort. I specifically asked of you to cite 2, just 2, laws in any of the states (out of the 50 states you claim actually have such laws)which make criminal a teenager choosing to date someone of their own choice. How you read that to ask what law can give authority to some random third person to force a parent to give their blessing is beyond me. Then again, I'm dense and stupid.
You said that parental permission was not necessary. That is wrong.
You know, for a smart guy, you sure don't read very well.Quote:
Since you've asserted that all 50 states have a law making it illegal, the task of citing only 2 should be easily bested.
There is no law stating what parenting is.... just what it isn't. Therefore, anything a parent does up to those specific statutes is fair game.
Including not letting that child date. Therefore, dating is legal as long as mom and dad says you can.
Why is that hard for you? -
10-15-2008, 04:04 PMashman165Re: Can Parents Limit Who Teenagers Can Date?This is your argument, not mine. You state this as though it's relevant. I'm aware of your position, and you're aware of mine. Why needlessly fill space reciting the one thing we agree one: the topic about which we disagree?Quote:
Quoting cyjeff
Again, you're merely iterating your argument. No one has denied that the parents can refuse permission. This hasn't been at issue. The issue is whether or not their child may be jailed, prosecuted, fined, flogged, or whatever by the state for refusing to stop dating someone. You have still failed to show this law.Quote:
They can, therefore, also refuse to give that permission. That refusal is legal and there is no law that will force a parent to change that decision in any jurisdiction.
Again, the harm argument. What evidence do you have this young man is burning her? How is your analogy at all relevant? Since it hasn't been capitulated that said dude is shagging said 15 year old, beating her, or whatever, how is this at all related to the topic? Or are you suggesting that he is indeed harming her?Quote:
There is no law on the books that says you must keep them away from a hot stove. There IS a law that says a failure to protect the children can cost you your children.
Again, please cite this supposed law.Quote:
Every parent has the right, by law, to raise their children as they see fit as long as that rearing does not violate stated law.
No matter how many times you claim this is the law, it doesn't make it law. A citation would completely bolster your claim while simultaneously serving as the ruination of mine. You have still failed to cite this law you keep claiming.Quote:
You said that parental permission was not necessary. That is wrong.
Yet I'm not the one who can't seem to understand what the topic is.Quote:
You know, for a smart guy, you sure don't read very well.
Please, cite the law that makes dating illegal in and of itself if mommy and daddy say no.Quote:
There is no law stating what parenting is.... just what it isn't. Therefore, anything a parent does up to those specific statutes is fair game.
Including not letting that child date. Therefore, dating is legal as long as mom and dad says you can.
Why is that hard for you? -
10-15-2008, 04:29 PMcbgRe: Can Parents Limit Who Teenagers Can Date?
Please cite the law that makes it illegal for a parent to stop their minor child from dating.
Why is that hard for you? -
10-15-2008, 06:26 PMBORRe: Can Parents Limit Who Teenagers Can Date?Quote:
Quoting ashman165
Without checking any states, this "may" come under the general catchphrase heading of being an "unruly" minor or an "incorrigible" minor, synonomous with delinquent. -
10-15-2008, 08:32 PMcyjeffRe: Can Parents Limit Who Teenagers Can Date?
Okay, I give up.
Can anyone here translate into moron?
Tell the yahoo that parents are the ultimate authority over their own minor children in a way he can understand.
Then join me in praying for his children. They are probably out on a date right now.