Still more...
Still nothing about dating, though... hmmm.....
Quote:
(60) "Prospective parent" means a person who claims to be, or has been identified as, a person who may be a mother or a father of a child.
(61) "Protective investigation" means the acceptance of a report alleging child abuse, abandonment, or neglect, as defined in this chapter, by the central abuse hotline or the acceptance of a report of other dependency by the department; the investigation of each report; the determination of whether action by the court is warranted; the determination of the disposition of each report without court or public agency action when appropriate; and the referral of a child to another public or private agency when appropriate.
(62) "Protective investigator" means an authorized agent of the department who receives and investigates reports of child abuse, abandonment, or neglect; who, as a result of the investigation, may recommend that a dependency petition be filed for the child; and who performs other duties necessary to carry out the required actions of the protective investigation function.
(63) "Protective supervision" means a legal status in dependency cases which permits the child to remain safely in his or her own home or other nonlicensed placement under the supervision of an agent of the department and which must be reviewed by the court during the period of supervision.
(64) "Relative" means a grandparent, great-grandparent, sibling, first cousin, aunt, uncle, great-aunt, great-uncle, niece, or nephew, whether related by the whole or half blood, by affinity, or by adoption. The term does not include a stepparent.
(65) "Reunification services" means social services and other supportive and rehabilitative services provided to the parent of the child, to the child, and, where appropriate, to the relative placement, nonrelative placement, or foster parents of the child, for the purpose of enabling a child who has been placed in out-of-home care to safely return to his or her parent at the earliest possible time. The health and safety of the child shall be the paramount goal of social services and other supportive and rehabilitative services. The services shall promote the child's need for physical, mental, and emotional health and a safe, stable, living environment, shall promote family autonomy, and shall strengthen family life, whenever possible.
(66) "Secretary" means the Secretary of Children and Family Services.
(67) "Sexual abuse of a child" means one or more of the following acts:
(a) Any penetration, however slight, of the vagina or anal opening of one person by the penis of another person, whether or not there is the emission of semen.
(b) Any sexual contact between the genitals or anal opening of one person and the mouth or tongue of another person.
(c) Any intrusion by one person into the genitals or anal opening of another person, including the use of any object for this purpose, except that this does not include any act intended for a valid medical purpose.
(d) The intentional touching of the genitals or intimate parts, including the breasts, genital area, groin, inner thighs, and buttocks, or the clothing covering them, of either the child or the perpetrator, except that this does not include:
1. Any act which may reasonably be construed to be a normal caregiver responsibility, any interaction with, or affection for a child; or
2. Any act intended for a valid medical purpose.
(e) The intentional masturbation of the perpetrator's genitals in the presence of a child.
(f) The intentional exposure of the perpetrator's genitals in the presence of a child, or any other sexual act intentionally perpetrated in the presence of a child, if such exposure or sexual act is for the purpose of sexual arousal or gratification, aggression, degradation, or other similar purpose.
(g) The sexual exploitation of a child, which includes allowing, encouraging, or forcing a child to:
1. Solicit for or engage in prostitution; or
2. Engage in a sexual performance, as defined by chapter 827.
(68) "Shelter" means a placement with a relative or a nonrelative, or in a licensed home or facility, for the temporary care of a child who is alleged to be or who has been found to be dependent, pending court disposition before or after adjudication.
(69) "Shelter hearing" means a hearing in which the court determines whether probable cause exists to keep a child in shelter status pending further investigation of the case.
(70) "Social service agency" means the department, a licensed child-caring agency, or a licensed child-placing agency.
(71) "Social worker" means any person who has a bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degree in social work.
(72) "Substance abuse" means using, without medical reason, any psychoactive or mood-altering drug, including alcohol, in such a manner as to induce impairment resulting in dysfunctional social behavior.
(73) "Substantial compliance" means that the circumstances which caused the creation of the case plan have been significantly remedied to the extent that the well-being and safety of the child will not be endangered upon the child's remaining with or being returned to the child's parent.
(74) "Taken into custody" means the status of a child immediately when temporary physical control over the child is attained by a person authorized by law, pending the child's release or placement.
(75) "Temporary legal custody" means the relationship that a court creates between a child and an adult relative of the child, legal custodian, agency, or other person approved by the court until a more permanent arrangement is ordered. Temporary legal custody confers upon the custodian the right to have temporary physical custody of the child and the right and duty to protect, nurture, guide, and discipline the child and to provide the child with food, shelter, and education, and ordinary medical, dental, psychiatric, and psychological care, unless these rights and duties are otherwise enlarged or limited by the court order establishing the temporary legal custody relationship.
(76) "Victim" means any child who has sustained or is threatened with physical, mental, or emotional injury identified in a report involving child abuse, neglect, or abandonment, or child-on-child sexual abuse.
Can Parents Limit Who Teenagers Can Date?
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10-14-2008, 08:29 PMcyjeffRe: 18-Year-Old Kissing 15-Year-Old
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10-14-2008, 08:36 PMcyjeffRe: 18-Year-Old Kissing 15-Year-Old
But let's go farther....
How to lose parental rights... notice, again, there is no mention of "violating the romantic wants of minor child"...
Quote:
Title V
JUDICIAL BRANCH
Chapter 39
PROCEEDINGS RELATING TO CHILDREN
View Entire Chapter
39.806 Grounds for termination of parental rights.--
(1) Grounds for the termination of parental rights may be established under any of the following circumstances:
(a) When the parent or parents have voluntarily executed a written surrender of the child and consented to the entry of an order giving custody of the child to the department for subsequent adoption and the department is willing to accept custody of the child.
1. The surrender document must be executed before two witnesses and a notary public or other person authorized to take acknowledgments.
2. The surrender and consent may be withdrawn after acceptance by the department only after a finding by the court that the surrender and consent were obtained by fraud or under duress.
(b) Abandonment as defined in s. 39.01(1) or when the identity or location of the parent or parents is unknown and cannot be ascertained by diligent search within 60 days.
(c) When the parent or parents engaged in conduct toward the child or toward other children that demonstrates that the continuing involvement of the parent or parents in the parent-child relationship threatens the life, safety, well-being, or physical, mental, or emotional health of the child irrespective of the provision of services. Provision of services may be evidenced by proof that services were provided through a previous plan or offered as a case plan from a child welfare agency.
(d) When the parent of a child is incarcerated in a state or federal correctional institution and either:
1. The period of time for which the parent is expected to be incarcerated will constitute a substantial portion of the period of time before the child will attain the age of 18 years;
2. The incarcerated parent has been determined by the court to be a violent career criminal as defined in s. 775.084, a habitual violent felony offender as defined in s. 775.084, or a sexual predator as defined in s. 775.21; has been convicted of first degree or second degree murder in violation of s. 782.04 or a sexual battery that constitutes a capital, life, or first degree felony violation of s. 794.011; or has been convicted of an offense in another jurisdiction which is substantially similar to one of the offenses listed in this paragraph. As used in this section, the term "substantially similar offense" means any offense that is substantially similar in elements and penalties to one of those listed in this subparagraph, and that is in violation of a law of any other jurisdiction, whether that of another state, the District of Columbia, the United States or any possession or territory thereof, or any foreign jurisdiction; or
3. The court determines by clear and convincing evidence that continuing the parental relationship with the incarcerated parent would be harmful to the child and, for this reason, that termination of the parental rights of the incarcerated parent is in the best interest of the child.
(e) When a child has been adjudicated dependent, a case plan has been filed with the court, and:
1. The child continues to be abused, neglected, or abandoned by the parent or parents. The failure of the parent or parents to substantially comply with the case plan for a period of 9 months after an adjudication of the child as a dependent child or the child's placement into shelter care, whichever occurs first, constitutes evidence of continuing abuse, neglect, or abandonment unless the failure to substantially comply with the case plan was due to the parent's lack of financial resources or to the failure of the department to make reasonable efforts to reunify the parent and child. The 9-month period begins to run only after the child's placement into shelter care or the entry of a disposition order placing the custody of the child with the department or a person other than the parent and the court's approval of a case plan having the goal of reunification with the parent, whichever occurs first;
2. The parent or parents have materially breached the case plan. Time is of the essence for permanency of children in the dependency system. In order to prove the parent or parents have materially breached the case plan, the court must find by clear and convincing evidence that the parent or parents are unlikely or unable to substantially comply with the case plan before time to comply with the case plan expires.
(f) The parent or parents engaged in egregious conduct or had the opportunity and capability to prevent and knowingly failed to prevent egregious conduct that threatens the life, safety, or physical, mental, or emotional health of the child or the child's sibling.
1. As used in this subsection, the term "sibling" means another child who resides with or is cared for by the parent or parents regardless of whether the child is related legally or by consanguinity.
2. As used in this subsection, the term "egregious conduct" means abuse, abandonment, neglect, or any other conduct that is deplorable, flagrant, or outrageous by a normal standard of conduct. Egregious conduct may include an act or omission that occurred only once but was of such intensity, magnitude, or severity as to endanger the life of the child.
(g) The parent or parents have subjected the child or another child to aggravated child abuse as defined in s. 827.03, sexual battery or sexual abuse as defined in s. 39.01, or chronic abuse.
(h) The parent or parents have committed the murder, manslaughter, aiding or abetting the murder, or conspiracy or solicitation to murder the other parent or another child, or a felony battery that resulted in serious bodily injury to the child or to another child.
(i) The parental rights of the parent to a sibling of the child have been terminated involuntarily.
(j) The parent or parents have a history of extensive, abusive, and chronic use of alcohol or a controlled substance which renders them incapable of caring for the child, and have refused or failed to complete available treatment for such use during the 3-year period immediately preceding the filing of the petition for termination of parental rights.
(k) A test administered at birth that indicated that the child's blood, urine, or meconium contained any amount of alcohol or a controlled substance or metabolites of such substances, the presence of which was not the result of medical treatment administered to the mother or the newborn infant, and the biological mother of the child is the biological mother of at least one other child who was adjudicated dependent after a finding of harm to the child's health or welfare due to exposure to a controlled substance or alcohol as defined in 1s. 39.01(31)(g), after which the biological mother had the opportunity to participate in substance abuse treatment.
(l) On three or more occasions the child or another child of the parent or parents has been placed in out-of-home care pursuant to this chapter, and the conditions that led to the child's out-of-home placement were caused by the parent or parents.
(2) Reasonable efforts to preserve and reunify families are not required if a court of competent jurisdiction has determined that any of the events described in paragraphs (1)(e)-(l) have occurred.
(3) If a petition for termination of parental rights is filed under subsection (1), a separate petition for dependency need not be filed and the department need not offer the parents a case plan having a goal of reunification, but may instead file with the court a case plan having a goal of termination of parental rights to allow continuation of services until the termination is granted or until further orders of the court are issued.
(4) If an expedited termination of parental rights petition is filed, reasonable efforts shall be made to place the child in a timely manner in accordance with the permanency plan, and to complete whatever steps are necessary to finalize the permanent placement of the child.
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10-14-2008, 08:38 PMcyjeffRe: 18-Year-Old Kissing 15-Year-Old
Now, you may be saying to yourself.... why is this guy all hot and bothered about it...
Because you don't understand teenagers.
Teenagers will ignore the five million times we said "do what your parents tell you to do" in favor of ONE idiot that says, "Show me where parents can stop you from dating."
I hope you are really really proud of yourself. If you are going to play intellectual ivory tower logic games, do it on your own time. -
10-15-2008, 11:59 AMashman165Re: 18-Year-Old Kissing 15-Year-OldSo the hypothetical judge we're talking about has actually made a ruling? I again, not to be belabor the original request actually put to you, would appreciate 1 citation of law which disproves my point.Quote:
Further, the judge can, and has, deemed that contact to be lewd and/or a premise to a sexual act.
You have apparently missed the point of OP's question: he didn't ask what steps he must take to date anyone; that's a different question. He asked what laws he might be violating and what can be done to him.
Claiming to date someone (and I'll assume the gal in this believes they're dating as well) is wholly beyond the province of parental control. They may well control where she may go, but they most assuredly can't alter what she believes. Again, dating doesn't imply sex or indeed any physical contact.
You're sitting here working under some goofy notion that any of this was about what rights the boyfriend has to compel the parents to produce their daughter to him physically. Nothing in his post or my response dealt with that.
Again, I await even a single citation. I see you listed a few states which you claim have laws on the books proving your point. Please cite the law. -
10-15-2008, 12:25 PMcbgRe: 18-Year-Old Kissing 15-Year-Old
You're missing the point.
There does not have to be a law giving the parents permission to decide whom their minor child may date. They may make that decision because there is no law prohibiting them from doing so.
So YOU show us the law that says the child may date anyone they want, with or without sexual congress, and the parent may not do anything about it. -
10-15-2008, 12:41 PMashman165Re: 18-Year-Old Kissing 15-Year-OldPlease read the definition of dating. As I've twice now said, and once posted a link you're free to click, dating doesn't require any physical contact.Quote:
Quoting cbg
Gee, I don't know, CBG, courts have said in many instances there are limits over the degree of dominion control parents have over their teenaged children. Thas included most notably property rights (against the parents, for the child), finances (again against parents and in favor of children), and reproductive rights (again against the parents).
Just because you think that you as a parent have complete and utter, unadulterated control over your child's every move in life doesn't make it so. They aren't your property; they are human beings who do indeed have rights - even if you want them to be mere automatons whose sole purpose it is to serve you.
While it's true that parents have considerable say over what their children may and may not do, it's far from absolute - despite your assertions.
But again, this thread isn't about all that. It's about what the parents may do to this guy. -
10-15-2008, 12:51 PMcdwjavaRe: 18-Year-Old Kissing 15-Year-Old
In short, if the guy encourages or aids the girl in acts of disobedience to her parents, he may find himself charged with a crime. Most states (I do not say all as I do not know the laws in all 50 states) make it a criminal offense to aid or encourage a child to be out of control of their parent or guardian. It's not so much about the Webster's definition of dating, it's about usurping the lawful control of the parent.
That being said, if the couple meet at school, or run into each other out and about, there is likely no crime for the meeting. But, if she runs away and he picks her up or calls her and tells her to sneak out so they can hook, he has a problem.
- Carl -
10-15-2008, 01:33 PMashman165Re: 18-Year-Old Kissing 15-Year-OldAnd I don't disagree with any of that. But as I've said a number of times, this was about what the OP asked. I asked him 2 questions, as noted above, and somehow I'm the originator of this topic.Quote:
Quoting cdwjava
He said that dating is legal in all 50 states with the parents' permission. This necessarily implies that without parent permission, dating is illegal in all 50 states. That isn't the case.
Nor has he presented a single scrap of evidence to support his claim that absent specific parental approval, dating is illegal.
Nor has it been shown that a parent may specifically prohibit whom their children date, which is distinguishable from whom their children may shag. But that wasn't at issue here.
Nor was it at issue here whether or not OP was encouraging his girlfriend to break any law to see him. Reading that into his questions throws into what he wanted to know something which is entirely speculative.
Of course, I'll be lambasted for switching topics. But I had to contend with the information provided by 3 or 4 different people in response to my response to OP. None of whom, it's worth noting, has come up with an iota of statutory law, or even case law, supporting their claim that parents exert complete and total dominion over their teenaged children.
I still await some positively asserted law that in and of itself a child choosing to date anyone against the wishes of their parents is illegal and that said child may be arrested, jailed or fined for it.
Of course, that wasn't what OP's question was about, but that's where this topic was taken by the original responders. His question involved what can he be charged with simply for dating someone. No law has been presented that all by itself just dating her is a crime. Much moral indignation has abounded, but, alas, no citation of law. -
10-15-2008, 01:55 PMcyjeffRe: Can Parents Limit Who Teenagers Can Date?
I don't know why you are being intentionally dense, but you are starting to sound stupid.
Let's play lawyer.
I am Romeo. I really want to date Juliet, but her mean old daddy says no. We both live in Florida.
What statute, EXACTLY, do I wave in front of old man Capulet that would demand him give me his daughter?
You keep demanding the statutes that allow it. There aren't any save for the ones I have ALREADY posted that demand that parents care for all of the needs of their children and protect them from harm... physical and emotional.
You have a 13 year old child. Do you believe you have the right to tell him/her "No" when they tell you they want to go to the mall with this really cool guy they met online? -
10-15-2008, 02:03 PMcyjeffRe: 18-Year-Old Kissing 15-Year-OldDon't be intentionally moronic. It doesn't suit you.Quote:
Quoting ashman165
While a child cannot be jailed for dating someone their parents do not like, many jurisdictions CAN incarcerate a child for "unruly" and uncontrollable behavior.
Which his/her parents are the primary source of information.
Again, you must have an interesting family. Strangers drive up to your home and remove your children and you don't think you can stop them. Do you work it like a library....
Of course not. You decide where your child goes and doesn't go. If the child doesn't do what you want, you take things away... even freedom... and it is all perfectly legal.
Get over yourself... again, just because you want to play intellectual and apply your vast brain to one of the more obvious facets of family law doesn't mean that you should waste our time with it.