First Time Theft

My question involves criminal law for the state of: Washington

I will first start off by saying what i did is the stupidest thing ever, and I have yet to understand why i even did it, I cant even answer that question and i have spent the past weekend obsessively thinking about it.

a long story short: I went into a Ross and went in with the intention to shop, literally never thought i would steal, never have, and clearly never will. I bought about 80$ of merchandise, but before this, i went to the accessories area and saw scarves that were very appealing, i liked 4 of the colors and grabbed all of them. I went back to the area where i was looking for a photo album (which i did end up buying) and while i was back there, i dont know what got in me..how i even thought of doing this, but i put the 8$ scarves in my purse. Why i did it..God knows, my brain is so confused and blurry i HONESTLY cant answer this question. The craziest part is, i went up and paid for everything else, which like i stated, added to 80$. Why wouldnt i just steal the more expensive things and not the cheap ones; this is a question i myself cant explain, and it goes to show you just how weird this was. I had ALL my id on me, including social security card, all school id's, personal pictures, everything! i had NO INTENTION of stealing, never in my life have i even gotten the least bit in trouble. NEVER.

I am 22 years old. I am working at a law firm (irony i know) I am registered to take the LSAT in dec. and am applying for law school 2nd time around. I was an honor student at school, i mean the list goes on, but i know what you're thinking, if you're so smart, why steal?

I was leaving the door, and the LP guy asked me to go back with him. I started crying and shaking to where he had to try to calm me down. I told me what i jjust told you, couldnt answer why i did it, and explained to him all thats going for me. He said he HAD to prosecute me, but if i was willing to confess my wrongddoings, esp to the police (which came 1 hr later) that things would be easier for me. So i listened. I told the police the same thing i posted here, and i kept saying sorry and was crying and saying how stupid i am. He said 'the smart ones are the ones that know its stupid'. When the police left, the LP guy told me "dont plead guilty when you go to court, jjust ask for a deferred sentence, they will give it to you, im sure of it".

I left crying, and shaking, and depressed, almost suicidal. I dont know what i was thinking, I am in debt and dont have any money to pay for any legal service, and am too ashamed to tell a single person abt the wrongdoings. THe lp guy kept saying 'i know you're a good person, i really do' and then he gave me his cell number saying if i had any questions, contact him. I then called him afterwards and apolgoized, and asked to explain to me again what i should do; i had never been in trouble, i needed some advice, i couldnt even breathe. He called back after i left a voice message and said that I can meet him at the Ross parking lot to talk. I did this a few days later, and he said that he wishes he never had to prosecute me, he knows im a good person, and he wishes i didnt do that, and that everyone makes mistakes. He seems so nice and undersatnding. I told him cant i just pay you guys the fines, and from my research ross can drop charges. I have SO much that was going for me in the legal field, and now after this on my records, i will not have anything. I am also really depressed and feel like i dont even want to live with all these difficulties ahead of me.

He told me since i was already prosectued, that Ross already got cops involved that day, they cant do that. But then i read something about a 'civil compromise'. Since he seems to be willing to help, and realizes i am not a typical 'theif' and that clearly i am regretful and would never do this, can you please tell me what options he has that he can work out a deal with me without taking this to court? if i know exact facts i can present to him, maybe he can help me.

If that is not possible, what is my best bet as far as court? I know i am guilty, even if i plead not guilty, im sure he has my voice mails i left him crying and saying sorry and asking for help. I am very very poor and in debt, i HAD so much going for m, and im really dpressed and sad and i have no one to turn to, no one that would ever accept this behavior, my parents would literally disown me. no jjoke. I come from a very religious chrisitan family. What should i say in court? i am willing to do community service, willing to be on probation, as i know i wont get in trouble again, i will do anything just dont want 1. jail (gosh the thought of that really makes me wanna die) 2. criminal records..whats the point of continuing studying for lsats when no school would accept a criminal and no law firm/bar would accept a criminal.

i know this is long, and i am really sorry, but please please please i beg for any help, advice. i have never felt so regretful in my life, never felt so sorry, and most of all never felt so confused. i dont even want to go grocery shopping, im that parranoid..i really need help. please. give me advice.

First priority, calm down, as it clouds the mind and you can't function rationally.

If the store does prosecute, unless this is your second theft offense or so, it is only petite theft.

RARELY, is such a first offender, upon conviction or pleading guilty, given any jail time, unless it is only 3 or 4 days to wake them up. You have to be sentenced proportionally as others past for the same crime.

You have to do a little legal homework on your own.

As the LP person mentioned, does your state have a first offender program, such as deferred adjudication and or diversion program?

These are designed as a basic "forgiveness" law. If you stay out of trouble and follow the law, do your community service, etc., whatever has been imposed, the charge is dropped as it never occured in the 1st place.

Theft may be a crime or moral turpitude as far as Law school admission, but first time petty theft is most probably NOT a bar for admission to the Bar.

Would you feel comfortable discussing the theft with your employer as far as legal advice is concerned??

First, do not, ever, talk to the LP person again. That LP person is protecting the store, not your rights. You should assume everything you have said to him can and will be used against you.

Second, when you get your summons to court, plead not guilty and get a public defender.

Third, you will receive a civil demand in the mail. Pay it. This civil demand has nothing to do with your criminal charges but must be satisfied.

Fourth, when you go back to court with counsel, try to get the charge plea bargained down to something you can have diversion upon. Diversion will, after your probation and any other sentence the court hands down is satisfied, will keep this off your record.

It will be extremely difficult to enter law school with a criminal record. Not impossible, but very difficult. Same for taking the bar.

Quote:

---

1. jail (gosh the thought of that really makes me wanna die)

---

You are NOT going to jail

Do what cyjeff says

but he seemed so nice and willing to help out, i guess i am too kind and trusting that i actually called him and said how sorry i was and how stupid i am. it was very stupid, and my reaction afterwards was very stupid as well, but he clearly said dont plead guilty..but dont plea not guilty, if you do 'i will be there and you will lose since we have clear evidence you stole', but they have no recording of it. but im sure he can use my voice mails in court, and i want to save the court time and money as i am moving to texas in end of december, i want to finish all this here before i leave there.

he said asked for a 'defferred sentence' can you tell me what that means? why plead not guilty when i know they will do whatever they can to prove i am. im really nervous, i learned my lesson, i honestly cant sleep/eat. please give me some more detailed advice.

yes it is a first time offense. i have NEVER shoplifted in my life, nor do i hjave any sort of criminal record..

what do you advise i do? what would be the quickest with an okay result. granted i will pay fines and community service, id rather do that than have this on my record or go to trial trying to say im not guilty, but then they somehow prove i am, and even larger punishements..i learned my lesson, i want to get things over with and just move on.

i am also moving to texas in december, i would like to get things done and out of the way before moving to another state in which things get even more complicated and what not.

advice please

Here is a link about the diversion program, at least in that jurisdiction, but presumably it is an umbrella of state laws.


http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=2&gl=us

BEST ADVICE:

Consult a criminal defense attorney. You can go through your local Bar Association and ask what attorney's are generally known to accept cases on a payment plan, if this is a known fact at all. Just explain your situation and they will refer you.

Once in your initial consultation, if you have no real up front cash, inquire about a payment plan, so much a month.

If you can, borrow 2 or 3 hundred for UP FRONT money, as the attorney will be more inclined to accept your case.

If this is not possible, once charged and arraigned and asked to plead, if you intend to plead guilty and do so, then plead with the court to be entered into the diversion program.

Be remorseful, this is what the court wants to hear, that you will never do it again.

The court is not out to tar and feather non habitual defendant's

Quote:

---

please give me some more detailed advice.

---

It doesn't get much more detailed than what Cyjeff told you to do.

Go back and read what he said. Pay particular attention to the bit about going to court WITH COUNSEL.

Then do it. Wringing your hands over this is not going to help you. You got good advice.

what ifi cant afford to go to court with counsel? of course id love to do that, but i cant afford an attorney. i was waiting for the arraignment to talk to the public defender, but i know before that happens that judge asks what i want to plea and thats where im confused, do i say guilty or not guilty or do i have the option of saying 'i want to talk to a public defender before pleading anything'

Quote:

---

Quoting depressed987

---

what ifi cant afford to go to court with counsel? of course id love to do that, but i cant afford an attorney. i was waiting for the arraignment to talk to the public defender, but i know before that happens that judge asks what i want to plea and thats where im confused, do i say guilty or not guilty or do i have the option of saying 'i want to talk to a public defender before pleading anything'

---

As you've been told three times, PLEAD NOT GUILTY THEN TALK TO THE PUBLIC DEFENDER.

Quote:

---

Quoting ashman165

---

As you've been told three times, PLEAD NOT GUILTY THEN TALK TO THE PUBLIC DEFENDER.

---

ummm and as i have already stated : "why plead not guilty when i know they will do whatever they can to prove i am."

no need to use caps, suprisingly i can actually read without them..crazy isnt it?

once again, in my original post, this is why i keep asking but it seems that people find it necessary to ignore the actual questions and try to use caps in attempts to make someone look slow and incapable of reading comprehension..

"I know i am guilty, even if i plead not guilty, im sure he has my voice mails i left him crying and saying sorry and asking for help"

why say im NOT GUILY when i AM GUILTY..pretty sure what im trying to figure out is can do i have to say i am or not guilty before meeting with a pd..what answer do i give when the judge asks me, thats what im looking for,

yeah i got it..talk to a pd..got that.

Then you know what? You arguing with the experts here is NOT going the change the situation.

I'm sorry to say this but stop the crap and plead quilty, take what the judge gives you and move on from there. You're as guilty as a bullet is painful. Plead and move on. (sorry)

"NO SOUP FOR YOU...NEXT"

Arguing with the experts? The last thing i am trying to do is argue, im trying to find out an answer to my question, by simply restating the original question i asked,and conintue asking is by no means 'arguing', im only trying to find answers. Yes, first i am told to plead guilty, and I did confess,so why did you say 'stop the crap? Um, crap? If you read my posts youwill see that i continuously say how sorry, wrong, stupid, and guilty i am. Is there crap in my confession? Or is it 'crap' that i am saying hey im guilty, why/how should i plead not guilty, since thats the advice from the EXPERTS.

im not here to argue, im here to get help. you can give me all the crap you want and make me feel even lower than i already do, if it helps you sleep better at night.

for those that actually have helpful suggestions, i appreciate it more than anything right now, thank you very much :)

You asked how to get a Public defender you were told how to do so, after doing that you can discuss the rest of it with him/her.

If you don't like the answers you are getting here can't you ask someone where you work since you said you work for a law firm?

Quote:

---

Quoting FlyinHawk®

---

You asked how to get a Public defender you were told how to do so, after doing that you can discuss the rest of it with him/her.

If you don't like the answers you are getting here can't you ask someone where you work since you said you work for a law firm?

---

Well, I hate to sound rude, but this doesn't sound so much like advice s/he's after so much as a place to vent and have catharsis.

I think four times now s/he was told in order to get a PD, s/he must plead not guilty.

OP, judges aren't in the habit of assigning lawyers on the state's nickel to people who've pleaded guilty.

Surprisingly, you can read. More surprisingly, you managed to miss the little details about pleading not guilty and then talking to your PD despite it having been said to you no fewer than 4 times.

As far as you working for a law firm goes, you'd think that by now you'd have caught on that trials don't come with predetermined results. If they did, trials would be wholly unncessary. This is why you plead not guilty and then talk to your state appointed lawyer to review your options.

Pleading guilty removes that benefit of having an advocate to at least get you a better deal.

My question involves criminal law for the state of: Washington

Alright, for those that read my post, and well, for those that havent ya'll can read it after/before this post. THis mainly goes out to the readers, i have no questions, its more so for the people, like myself, that read countless cases on this forum looking for something to give them hope, answers and comfort, rather than people scaring or mocking them, as i have experienced.

I went to my arrignmt today and it went like this: we formed a line to be able to speak to the prosecutor and/or public defender. When i was up, the lady aske my name, i told her, and she said she was with the prosecuting office. She stated that if i plead guilty, i could have up to a yr in jail, basically all my rights, then she said what we can do is give you a deal of 2 yr probation. I said is there a 'no contest' plea or something like a diversion program here that perhaps i can do, rather than pleading no guilty and having a big ol trial, or pleading guilty and getting a higher sentence. She then directed me to a public defender. I went to him, and he said since it was my FIRST OFFENSE EVER and i have a PERFECT RECORD he can talk to the store and see if they can do a 'civl compromise' which is basically me agreeing to pay the store that did the charges, and then coming to court and the defender presenting that; there would be no cimrinal record nothing, you just pay the fines and thats it - i was expecting probation of 2 yrs, lots of community service, classes abt theft, and even some ppl who scared me wtih 'jail time'. So to those first time convicted people, there's hope, dont listen to all you read. And yeah, perhaps it doesnt always go like this, and you know i dont even know the answer yet, the pd has to get back to me on if they agree with the civil compromise, which he stated they typcially do because they dont like to pay for the trial or sending their lp staff to trial, it costs them more. SO if i get lucky ill get that, if not it'd be the whole 2 yr probation thing, and then record clear, andim fine with that, its not likeim planning on getting in trouble, and if i can keep clean for 22 years, im hoping another 2 wont be too bad.

SO if you have that scary, disgusting, unable to eat, feeling in your stomach, and its ur FIRST time conviction, breathe, it's not going to be THAT BAD.

I will contiue wtih the update in a few wks is my trial, we'll see how that goes, maybe it will be great and i can give ppl more details and a great ending that will give us hope, throughtout these weeks of reading these forums, i was looking for posts like this, where someone actually had something positive to say.
AFTer going through so much crap, you feel bad as it is, people telling you you're going to go to jail over a 30$ item and its ur first time and ur sincerely remorseful, thats just nto alwyas the case, but i gues its necessary since they say that is the MAXIUMUM penality.

goodluck to everyone, including myself.

And another lesson here; if you do something stupid, are caught and charged, get an attorney!

If you cannot afford one, plead Not Guilty at arraignment and request that one be appointed you.

yeah, okay...

Quote:

---

Quoting depressed987

---

yeah, okay...

---

I can guarantee we'll be hearing from you again. "I got away with it, so can you. I'll do it again and let you know how to get out of it. Take a deep breath and don't worry! It's really not that bad."

Yeah, you'll get out of it...in 1 to 3 years. Make sure mommy and daddy contribute to your account so you can buy toilet paper and the basic necessities so you don't have to barter with Budda and his band of merry men.

Think you're 'depressed987' now... you ain't seen nothing yet smart guy.

Quote:

---

Quoting depressed987

---

THis mainly goes out to the readers, i have no questions, its more so for the people, like myself, that read countless cases on this forum looking for something to give them hope, answers and comfort, rather than people scaring or mocking them, as i have experienced.

---

What's so wrong about scaring those who come here for help with the truth?

It should be scary, it is the fear of what is unknown and about to happen that would be the thing that would make you not want to commit the crime again and make you want to rearrange your life.

Without that fear and telling people it's a breeze nothing to worry about what is going to stop them from not doing it again and again?

Quote:

---

Quoting FlyinHawk®

---

What's so wrong about scaring those who come here for help with the truth?

---

Exactly my point. And look at the pretentious post he initiated after I said that anyone in this situation should get an attorney. His response

Quote:

---

"yeah...right"

---

His original post showed a scared, humble, seriously concerned individual. When he thought he had beaten the system, he told others to relax, it's not going to be that bad. Yeah, that's excellent advice.

FlyinHawk- i really repsect your comment, and i agree 100%. perhaps what i said was not stated clearly, and i apolgoize for those that misunderstood what i had to say- the fear will always be there, i am sure of it. i still have the fear, and even when im just at a store shopping for groceries i feel so parranoid that im like pretty much scarred for life. I know that fear and what i went through, and still go through, is enough to assure that i will never commit any crime of any sort. I only wrote that to help those people not feel HOPELESS. thats it..i felt so depressed that i hated my life..and i still hate myself for that day and all that happened, i still do. but i know exactly how those people are feeling, and all i wanted them to know is dont kill urself over it..if its your FIRST OFFENSIVE (thats why i capitolized it) chances are it wont be that bad. I also made sure i clarified that its a case by case basis..was it wrong of me to post an update? I think not considering i got messages immediately after i posted thanking me, and even some asking questions, which i didnt reply to because i am in NO authority to answer any questions of any sort.

Hey depressed i'm sort of in the same boat cept im in california i'm not going to waste money on an attorney because they have me on camera and i spoke to the cops and the LP and all that good stuff, so i'm guilty just like you this is my first offense and i've never had any sort of criminal history but when i go to court for the arraignment i'm going to ask the judge after he reads me my charges for an "indicated sentence" what this means he will tell you what your sentence will be if you plea guilty if there is jail time or something you dont want to have you plea NOT guilty then you get your PD, if it is just community service and a diversion program then i would take that and plea guilty but thats what my plan is please let us know what happens when you go to court though

CA really bad plan!

Quote:

---

Quoting panther10758

---

CA really bad plan!

---

yeah but there is no reason for me to fight something i can't win if i get community service and some probation thats not that bad, i know it'll probably be on my perm record and i stole almost 400 dollars worth of stuff i'll work on getting it expunged later is it still a bad plan though?

You need a Lawyer to help with any possible plea deal. Without one your at mercy of court. Like I said bad plan going in without Attorney

Quote:

---

Quoting panther10758

---

You need a Lawyer to help with any possible plea deal. Without one your at mercy of court. Like I said bad plan going in without Attorney

---

alright so what if i go into court and say "indicated sentence" and then they give me an offer i don't like can i say "i'd like more time to get an attorney" or will it make it seem like im guilty since i'm already asking about an indicated setence..

Requesting time to get an Attorney does not suggest guilt.

Quote:

---

Quoting depressed987

---

FlyinHawk- i really repsect your comment, and i agree 100%. perhaps what i said was not stated clearly, and i apolgoize for those that misunderstood what i had to say- the fear will always be there, i am sure of it. i still have the fear, and even when im just at a store shopping for groceries i feel so parranoid that im like pretty much scarred for life. I know that fear and what i went through, and still go through, is enough to assure that i will never commit any crime of any sort. I only wrote that to help those people not feel HOPELESS. thats it..i felt so depressed that i hated my life..and i still hate myself for that day and all that happened, i still do. but i know exactly how those people are feeling, and all i wanted them to know is dont kill urself over it..if its your FIRST OFFENSIVE (thats why i capitolized it) chances are it wont be that bad. I also made sure i clarified that its a case by case basis..was it wrong of me to post an update? I think not considering i got messages immediately after i posted thanking me, and even some asking questions, which i didnt reply to because i am in NO authority to answer any questions of any sort.

---

Your coming back here is vital to the site( this section in particular). Of course this is just MHO. You have been there and done that and although you made a mistake, you have learned from it and are able to move on. It's really important that you give hope to those who feel hopeless. Stay strong and I'm really glad that you were able to prevail here. Jail is for criminals. Your a smart person who made a dumb mistake..that makes you human not criminal (once again just my HO). Keep us posted! I personally love success stories!:D
BTW, you have just as much authority to answer as the next person...