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A Scenario You May Not Have Encountered

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  • 08-06-2008, 01:17 PM
    yahurd
    A Scenario You May Not Have Encountered
    I put this here because I don't know where speculation goes it seems that debates deal primarily with speculative material, and this bit may start one!

    You may find it somewhat juvenile, but here goes.

    Lets pretend magic works, or prayer to some fickle god.

    If someone commits a crime through such nonphysical means, what happens? if you could prove beyond doubt someone had done something to someone this way, would they be held accountable?
  • 08-06-2008, 01:26 PM
    aardvarc
    Re: A Scenario You May Not Have Encountered
    If the act of magic was the proximate cause of the crime in question, maybe.

    Prayer would be a different matter, because although it would cover INTENT, ultimately it would be the choice of the "god" whether or not the event took place or not. Praying that your neighbor gets hit by lightning isn't going to result in prosecution just because your wish comes true.
  • 08-06-2008, 01:36 PM
    BOR
    Re: A Scenario You May Not Have Encountered
    Quote:

    Quoting aardvarc
    View Post
    If the act of magic was the proximate cause of the crime in question, maybe.

    I believe he was referencing real magic, like Samantha on Bewitched, if it actually existed, not a sooth sayer/spell caster, etc.

    Quote:

    Prayer would be a different matter, because although it would cover INTENT, ultimately it would be the choice of the "god" whether or not the event took place or not. Praying that your neighbor gets hit by lightning isn't going to result in prosecution just because your wish comes true.
    If we are speaking of "thought crimes" that come to fruition, they can not be prosecuted, as such laws are unconstitutional.
  • 08-06-2008, 01:59 PM
    LawResearcherMissy
    Re: A Scenario You May Not Have Encountered
    Quote:

    Quoting yahurd
    View Post
    If someone commits a crime through such nonphysical means, what happens? if you could prove beyond doubt someone had done something to someone this way, would they be held accountable?

    Why wouldn't they be? See, Magic has laws, too, and the consequences are rather dire if you break them. For instance, using Magic to take the life of another, except in the last defense of your own life, is punishable by execution. Using Magic to alter someone else's consciousness, ditto.

    That's not just Harry Potter mythos, that's the pretty bog-standard Law of any faith dealing with Magic. ("An it harm none..." , etc.)

    Here, go buy some Harry Dresden books and see what happens when the cops retain a wizard for consulting work. Or better yet, watch the (now canceled, alas) show.
  • 08-06-2008, 02:14 PM
    Litigator
    Re: A Scenario You May Not Have Encountered
    It evokes memories of legal impossibility and whether that is a defense to an inchoate crime. For example, if someone has a voodoo doll and stabs it many times believing that they are trying to kill a real person, can they be prosecuted for attempted murder? See the statement toward the end of the article.
    http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...p?CiteID=81009
  • 08-06-2008, 02:20 PM
    BOR
    Re: A Scenario You May Not Have Encountered
    Quote:

    Quoting Litigator
    View Post
    It evokes memories of legal impossibility and whether that is a defense to an inchoate crime. For example, if someone has a voodoo doll and stabs it many times believing that they are trying to kill a real person, can they be prosecuted for attempted murder? See the statement toward the end of the article.
    http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...p?CiteID=81009



    Similar to "Impossibility of performance" in a breach of contract action.
  • 08-06-2008, 02:43 PM
    cyjeff
    Re: A Scenario You May Not Have Encountered
    I look at it another way.

    Magic is just another tool. No different from a gun or a car.

    If you use it to injure another and the validity of the tool AS a tool is confirmed, I don't see how it wouldn't be actionable.

    Let's pretend that guns haven't been invented... and the thought of throwing a lead ball hard enough to kill someone is crazy talk.

    You invent a gun and kill that nosy neighbor with it. Just because the WEAPON hadn't been used before does not make the crime a freebie.
  • 08-06-2008, 02:44 PM
    cyjeff
    Re: A Scenario You May Not Have Encountered
    Actually, a better question would be...

    If levitation was possible, would you have to file a flight plan with the FAA?
  • 08-06-2008, 03:49 PM
    BOR
    Re: A Scenario You May Not Have Encountered
    Quote:

    Quoting cyjeff
    View Post
    I look at it another way.

    Magic is just another tool. No different from a gun or a car.

    If you use it to injure another and the validity of the tool AS a tool is confirmed, I don't see how it wouldn't be actionable.


    If you are speaking of a civil suit it is entirely posssible. If you had a person who was vulnerable to such hocus pocus beliefs and you "cast a spell" on them to where anxiety and fear and fright overwhelmed them enough to cause harm, such as a heart attack, it is very possible the act would be tortious, yes.

    In a criminal law context, if such were used say against a child who had no understanding on such matters, and it caused them to hurt themselves, some criminal charges could possibly be brought, yes.
  • 08-06-2008, 04:56 PM
    yahurd
    Re: A Scenario You May Not Have Encountered
    Quote:

    That's not just Harry Potter mythos, that's the pretty bog-standard Law of any faith dealing with Magic. ("An it harm none..." , etc.)
    Not all, but some, and the threefold law isn't all that commonly accepted.

    Besides, that completely ignores the left hand path.
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