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Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: CA
I was working at a company recently where I became disabled while on the job, I notified the human resources department, they had a nurse come check me out and document my illness. The whole time I was seeing docotrs and talking with my manager. I went back to the Human resourse department and asked about going on disability because I could not function. They told me it was not for professionals and humiliated me in front of 2 other people. My manageer told me I would have to start working part time because we couldn't go on like this. I refused and kept showing up for work while trying to get some kind of diagnosis. THey laid me off two months later. We had LTD coverage. My income was pretty substantial and woulda had 66% of my income for any disability I now have figured out. Am I out of luck and have no recourse?
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
Do I understand that you were unable to perform the essential functions of your job?
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
What is the nature of your disability and were others laid off at the same time?
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
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cbg
Do I understand that you were unable to perform the essential functions of your job?
This is correct. My job was using the computer 80% of the time. the computer was making me so ill (dizzy and nausiated) when using day in and day out for so many hours I could not function. I could no longer do my job. Everybody in my group could tell I was having great difficulty.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
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cyjeff
What is the nature of your disability and were others laid off at the same time?
I have had chronic fatigue syndrome for 15 years. However, while working for this company I developed veritgo to go with it thats prevents me from working. My boss asked me a couple of day before laying me off if I had got in to see another neurologist. Yes others were laid off at the same time.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
If others were laid off at the same time, it will be difficult to prove that you wouldn't have been laid off with or without your disability.
Being on a disability does not give you more rights than anyone else... you get the same ones as everyone else.
In other words, if you would have been laid off anyway, having a disability won't prevent it.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
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cyjeff
If others were laid off at the same time, it will be difficult to prove that you wouldn't have been laid off with or without your disability.
Being on a disability does not give you more rights than anyone else... you get the same ones as everyone else.
In other words, if you would have been laid off anyway, having a disability won't prevent it.
I was dizzy and nausisated. My disability affects my ability to make decisions. I asked human resources to go on disability and was told that is not for professionals. My boss threatened to make me work part time because of my disability.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
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mark120472
I was dizzy and nausisated. My disability affects my ability to make decisions. I asked human resources to go on disability and was told that is not for professionals. My boss threatened to make me work part time because of my disability.
I read it when you wrote it the first time.
First, employers are required for certain disabilities covered under ADA to make reasonable accomodations. We have not established whether this disability is covered under ADA and, further, what reasonable accomodations you think should be made.
Second, if you were going to be laid off without the disability, you can still be laid off WITH the disability. Even the ADA only requires that employers treat employees equally... disabled persons do not get special treatment above that of regular employees.
What did you propose as an accomodation? In other words, what could the employer have done so that you could continue to do your job?
Just know, however, that not all jobs have appropriate accomodation. In the same way that an airline pilot that develops blindness cannot be accomodated, you may have a set of circumstances that are equally exclusive.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
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cyjeff
I read it when you wrote it the first time.
First, employers are required for certain disabilities covered under ADA to make reasonable accomodations.
What did you propose as an accomodation? In other words, what could the employer have done so that you could continue to do your job?
Just know, however, that not all jobs have appropriate accomodation. In the same way that an airline pilot that develops blindness cannot be accomodated, you may have a set of circumstances that are equally exclusive.
They suggested some other positions that had a bunch of computer use in customer support. I spoke to one of the managers, a couple weeks later, and the position was filled. I came back to HR and they said "sorry you don't have a degree, do you Mark" We don't have anything else.
I spoke with my Boss at the time and told him I was considering trying to get a job with another manager. later that afternoon I saw the two outside the conference room talking one on one. Typical style of my boss to interfere in others business. The manager my boss spoke to never treated me friendly after that.
HR said tweak your computer screen or try sunglasses to accomodate the dizzyness. Tried sunglasses didn't work.
X T
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
Please answer the question directly.
What do you think the employer should have done to accomodate you in doing your job?
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
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cbg
Please answer the question directly.
What do you think the employer should have done to accomodate you in doing your job?
My job could not be modified to suit me as it turns out. My job required heavy computer work and 80-90% or more was spent using the computer.
I believed at the time that finding me another job in the company without much computer use would have worked. However, it turns out now, that any position would not have worked. I did not realize it at the time and wanted to try something else in the company.
As far as trying to accomodate me, The HR lady emailed me about two Vice presidents and suggested I talk with them. I spoke to one VP right away and he informed me of two openings available, one under him and one under the other VP. The VP gave me the name of the managers to talk to(one position in his group and one in the other VP's group). I talked to the managers the VP recommended. ONe manager said his position was filled, and it turns out the position had heavy computer usage. The other position was the same and I wouldn't meet my needs.
I went back to human resources and let them know that the position was filled and it had heavy computer use. The HR lady told me "you don't have a degree, do you Mark. Sorry there is nothing else available". For some reason I believe there were other positions available. I think I went on the web and looked. I asked, "what about those field service jobs or tool engineer jobs?" She just clammed up.
That is when I went back a few days later and asked about how to apply for disability because the dizzynees was unbearable. They clammed up and wouldn't give any advice. 7 weeks later I was laid off with a group. I was the only guy with my skillset laid off at that time. One or Two weeks later they laid off another guy with a similar skillset. I think he may have been gone on vacation for the original party.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
Are you qualified to perform a tool engineer or field service job? Could you have done those jobs while suffering the dizziness and other symptoms?
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
One could defintely argue that I am qualified to do the field service work and tool engineer work, because after getting laid off I hired on at a different company, making same pay, as a technician were my job duties were to work on the tools and assist in developing new processes. So my new job demostrates that I could convince another company, that didn't even know, I was capable enough to work hands on with the equipment. I lasted one day at company #2 becuase of fatigue and dizzyness and was forced to resign by the HR director at the new company after telling him my health was preventing me from doing the job. I was upfront to begin with that I had some health concerns, so they were taking a chance with me.
At company #1, I had already designed many of the tools that the field service people were to fix or the tool engineer would maintain. I had intimate knowledge of how the equipment was put together and the different variations of equipment. I demostrated that I could use amny of the tools and troubleshoot problems. MOst of all, company #2, that didn't even know me, had hired me to do similar work after the layoff.
I didn't realize it at the time how bad my dizzyness was, but with company #1, I probably couldn't have done a tool engineer job due to my dizzyness and fatigue. However, I never told company #1 that I had any other limitations other than my chief complaint which was working with the computer all day. They had no reason not to give me a try.
I feel another point of discrimination was the HR lady said "you don't have a degree, do you Mark". When I came back asking about other jobs. Funny the job I held typically required a mechanical engineering degree, which is a bit above the requirements for field service technician or tool engineer. I was working as a mechanical designer where I would go out and troubleshoot and wrench on a regular basis.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it sounds like the company tried their best to find you a position.
Having failed that, they would have been within their rights to terminate you with or without a layoff.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
I don't see how telling about a position that has just ad much computer usage making an effort to find me another position.
What law are you referring to? It is my understanding that there is ERISA, ADA, governing disability.
What about my long term disability policy? It says if I become disabled while wokring at the company for any reason that prevents me from doing my regular line of work that I will receive LTD benefits. I directly asked to " how do I go about getting disability" and was told it is not for professionals?
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
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mark120472
I don't see how telling about a position that has just ad much computer usage making an effort to find me another position.
What law are you referring to? It is my understanding that there is ERISA, ADA, governing disability.
What about my long term disability policy? It says if I become disabled while wokring at the company for any reason that prevents me from doing my regular line of work that I will receive LTD benefits. I directly asked to " how do I go about getting disability" and was told it is not for professionals?
They tried to find you another position. The fact that, in today's environment, there are very few jobs that do not have a computer component. The company does not have to create a job for you because of your disability.
See my example of the blind airline pilot. No matter how much that pilot demands to be placed in the cockpit, it isn't going to happen. In addition, the company does not have to come up with a way for a blind pilot to fly. Some accomodations are no possible.
You have yet to say what accomodations you want. Just to say, "something else that pays as much or more than what I was making before but doesn't require computers or anything that will set off my vertigo" isn't enough.
Accomodations would be giving someone with a bad knee a high stool to sit on so that they could see over the counter. It wouldn't be lowering the store. You get the point.
You mention ADA. As I said last page, those may or may not come into play but ONLY, repeat ONLY, if your disability is deemed applicable. As I asked last page, has your disability been deemed ADA applicable? Just because your doctor calls it a disability does not make that applicability automatic.
As for your LTD policy, there is no way that anyone on this board can answer that question. LTD's are privately held policies that are individual to your former employer.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
Sounds like your point is that they should try to accomodate me to some extent if I had a disabling condition. But they tried and that is the extent of thier liability. What law are you referring to, anywhere I can find it to read more?
Chronic fatigue syndrome often takes 2 or more years to diagonose. It is a difficult thing to prove. BUt it is real and social security recognizes it.
I found one attourney who wants me to pull my personnel file from the company and come meet him for a more detailed look at the facts.
Seems to me just by practical common sense if someone has a LTD policy and gets sick and requests to file an application that should be a right of the employee.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
I feel another point of discrimination was the HR lady said "you don't have a degree, do you Mark".
Educational discrimination is NOT illegal.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Michael Dell, and the CEO of my company do NOT have college degrees. Is it fair to assume that maybe a degree is not necessary to do certain jobs?
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
Like starting your own business? Right. You can hire yourself even if you don't have a degree. ;)
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
He was trying to interpret the law I know.
I appreciate the input from this site and hope I have come across as such. I was hoping for a different opinions or interpretations in here and Think I may have found a creative and knowledgable lawyer that is interested in sitting down for a detailed description of my case.
I was hoping to get a little more background so I could be prepared. This law business is complicated stuff. It seems like with a little creativity interpretations can be taken beyond one literal meaning.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
Fine. Show me where on the EEOC website it says that having a degree or not having a degree is a protected characteristic.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
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mark120472
Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Michael Dell, and the CEO of my company do NOT have college degrees. Is it fair to assume that maybe a degree is not necessary to do certain jobs?
Dr. Spock, Dr. Stephen Hawkins, Dr. Joyce Brothers, Clarence Darrow and your heart surgeon DO have degrees.
Is it fair to assume that maybe a degree is necessary to do certain jobs?
Regardless... apparently, your company has decided that a college degree is necessary to do your job. Your input or thoughts on the matter are unimportant.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
You misunderstood the context of my statement. We were discussinhaving other jobs they could have have offered. One was a job as a filed service tech. Happens to be where the CEO of the company worked his way up from. It does'nt seem like a logical argument that they would deny that position for not having a degree, since the CEO was non degreed.
Back to law. there is a law called ERISA which can be used to fight my case. I found a lawyer that is going to go to bat for me on this one.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
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mark120472
I don't see how telling about a position that has just ad much computer usage making an effort to find me another position.
What law are you referring to? It is my understanding that there is ERISA, ADA, governing disability.
What about my long term disability policy? It says if I become disabled while wokring at the company for any reason that prevents me from doing my regular line of work that I will receive LTD benefits. I directly asked to " how do I go about getting disability" and was told it is not for professionals?
ERISA doesn't govern disabilities, The Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA) prohibits discharge for exercising rights secured by the Act or for preventing an employee from obtaining benefits under a plan covered by the Act.
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
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mlane58
ERISA doesn't govern disabilities, The Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA) prohibits discharge for exercising rights secured by the Act or for preventing an employee from obtaining benefits under a plan covered by the Act.
you people take everything so literally your impossible
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
prohibits discharge for exercising rights secured by the Act or for preventing an employee from obtaining benefits
congradualtions. you get it!
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Re: Laid Off After Becoming Disabled
Uh-huh. Show me where ERISA says that your employer is required to keep you employed, paying you to do nothing, until you qualify for a better benefit.