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Civil Action Against Shoplifters

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  • 05-03-2008, 08:41 AM
    panther10758
    Re: Civil Action Against Shoplifters
    Ther is no abuse and retailers are not coming out ahead. Less than 50% in many cases of Civil Demand are ever actually collected at best its 60%. This is hardly making a profit for retailers who lose 13 Billion (with a B) each year to shoplifting. Show me how they are making up the 13 billion
  • 05-03-2008, 03:14 PM
    Surprised2BHere
    Re: Civil Action Against Shoplifters
    Hey Panther, I'm not looking to get into a personal argument with you about it. To say there is NO abuse goes against what some have already been saying. I have no doubts that retailers lose a lot across the board to thieves, but what each individual thief pays as punishment is what is in question. If you go back and read what I've said, I'm not trying to get anyone out of paying what is rightfully owed, but they should not have to pay beyond what is fair either. Just like in a civil court case, a plaintiff is to be made whole by the person who damaged him, he's not supposed to end up with profit from it. And don't bring up what every other thief has done; That's now how our court systems work. A defendant is never ordered to pay for the mis-doings of every other defendant out there.

    Essentially, there ARE some retailers abusing their rights. I'm not a victim of it, and I don't know if anyone else is or not... but without any kind of regulation, you can't be naive enough to think it doesn't happen. I'm certainly not the only one questioning it. I have no experience with it and don't know if a civil recovery letter can even be questioned or negotiated, but it certainly SEEMS, from what I've read, that there isn't much recourse at all. I'm open to being corrected here...
  • 05-03-2008, 03:24 PM
    panther10758
    Re: Civil Action Against Shoplifters
    There is no profit "pay attention". do you have any clue to the cost to prevent and/or stop shoplifting? Civil Demand (when the thief pays it) is like spitting the ocean. Look at this example then we will talk some more:

    High Cost of Shoplifting Retailers costs

    CCTV minimum of $10,000.00 Most run over $70,000.00
    Extra electronics minimum of $20,000.00 Most run over $60,000.00. This includes DVR, intellex etc. None of these figures include maitainence and up keep

    The average LPO (Loss Prevention Officer) makes $20,000.00 yr
    If store employs four LPO’s (some more) you now have a cost of $80,000.00
    These LPO’s need a Boss LPM (Loss Prevention Manager) he/she makes an average of $30,000.00 min Now LP payroll is $110,000.00

    Now each item successfully stolen. The retailer must sale about 20 more at regular price to make up the lost of that one. Also during the stop and while the LP has the shoplifter in his/her office the item stolen is off sales floor in office. This has unknown lost value because its not on floor being sold or displayed.

    How does this effect the workers? Simple their hours are reduced or they are laid off if retailers profit is down. Shoplifting plays into this. Raises are also effected instead of 4% raise perhaps the retailer can only afford 3% or less! Benefits may decrease as well.

    Shoplifting cost retailers over 13 Billion dollars a year. It not a simple 8 dollar theft as most think. This only touches the surface of the high cost of shoplifting to retailers. Laws like Civil Demand help retailers in a small way. These numbers and examples are estimates but are close. They also give one an idea of what that simple theft costs


    Now stats I got from NASP state that 1 out of every 49 shoplifters are caught. Yep one! The average theft is about $100.00. So show me the profit! For every arrest there is an approx lost prior to of about $4900.00. Again show me the profit. Look at the cost (above) of stopping and/or preventing shoplifting and you see the retailer is not profitting in fact he is still losing
  • 05-04-2008, 02:55 PM
    Surprised2BHere
    Re: Civil Action Against Shoplifters
    I'm not arguing the statistics with you... I never was. You keep hitting me over the head with the same info, which I have no dispute with. What I do take issue with is the responsibility of one thief to pay the costs of every one not caught.

    You are also assuming that EVERY retailer has an LP department. Many, MANY, do not. They have no security at all. This is the type of business in my family's particular case. There has not been ANY cost to the retailer for LP or security, other than his insurance policy.

    I gave a specific example that you've failed to address. If my child is ordered to pay restitution in the amount of double (or even triple) the value of the items stolen, plus any fines, how is it then appropriate for the store owner to send a civil recovery letter? How is that owner then NOT put in the position to be made MORE than whole, especially if there has been no financial investment on his part to thwart theft through LP or security? From what I understand of criminal AND civil law, it is not up to an individual defendant to pay the price for every criminal everywhere... only to pay for the crime committed by his/herself. Tell me how my thinking is wrong? And don't just regurgitate theft statistics please...

    As I've said all along, as parents we are already making our child work to pay pay the store owner in whatever amount ordered, so don't think for one second we are trying to get our kid out of "doing the time". But in the "sue-happy" culture we live in, I also don't want to be taken advantage of... and it's a legitimate concern I've read about in more than one place.
  • 05-04-2008, 04:00 PM
    panther10758
    Re: Civil Action Against Shoplifters
    How appropriate was it to steal? Its state law its legal and it helps retails recoup a small portion of that 13 billion they lose each year. You want to play stats I can play. LP department or not there are cost that go with stopping and/or preventing theft. Do you enjoy paying higher prices? If employed by retailer would you be ok with lost of benefits, reduced hours, layoffs!? Your taking pity on a thief! If unhappy with the law write your Congressman and petition to change it I doubt you get much support. There are countless lives effected by this and your worried about the one causing it:rolleyes:
  • 05-04-2008, 04:03 PM
    panther10758
    Re: Civil Action Against Shoplifters
    I now see why your so in favor of the thief your adult child is one

    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48611
  • 05-04-2008, 04:16 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Civil Action Against Shoplifters
    Suffice it to say that the law allows both criminal and civil penalties for thieves. The criminal penalties and restitution are - by statute - separate matters entirely in my state (which is also Panther's) and, I suspect, very much the same in most other states.

    If you believe this is wrong, you are free to contact your state representative and lobby for a change in the law to allow one or the other as you prefer. In the meantime, the law is as it is, and this method of recovery is allowed.



    - Carl
  • 05-05-2008, 06:36 AM
    LPCap
    Re: Civil Action Against Shoplifters
    I don't feel like reading the entire thread. so can the OP state their specific questions in a logical order and I will attempt to answer them.
  • 05-06-2008, 08:32 AM
    Surprised2BHere
    Re: Civil Action Against Shoplifters
    I have to say, I'm really surprised at the judgemental attitude in these forums. I'm not in favor thieves in general, or of "my thief", and I thought I was making it pretty clear that we EXPECT our child to pay penalties, including restitution -- and that we would have regardless of the employer deciding to call the cops or not -- but a lot of you are quick to dismiss me as the parent of a child who committed a crime as someone of lesser value than you. This site is called "Expert Law" which I assumed meant you could get legal advice -- but I have to wonder how the environment serves that purpose when the common answer is "well you shouldn't have committed a crime in the first place." Gee, thanks Einstein, I think everyone here can figure that out already.

    LPCap... I don't know if you intentions are to further belittle my questions or not, but I was not talking specifics in my family's case. There are none yet, we are too early in the process. But I have been researching "Civil Recovery" which is why I responded to this thread. I had asked in the course of this discussion if it's "fair" or possible that the court could order my child to pay restitution and the retailer could additionally send a demand for civil recovery. What raised the question for me initially was that I've read articles editorializing that the civil recovery process has become somewhat abused by some retailers and being that I'm not a lawyer, I was wondering if there is any legitimate negotiating that can be done when a civil recovery letter arrives, especially if the accused has already paid restitution.

    If anyone wants to answer the legal question, I'd love to hear it. As parents of the accused, we feel bad enough already, and trust me, this is not something we take lightly.
  • 05-06-2008, 08:37 AM
    panther10758
    Re: Civil Action Against Shoplifters
    You just dont pay attention do you? Or is it you cant stand fact your child was caught! Either way its fair because its state law. If you want law changed petition your state Represenative. Outside of that your just blowing smoke
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