I decree the current BAC limit of 0.08 is excessive and completely foolish. NOBODY, and I mean nobody, is drunk at that level! Thats like two beers! The limit needs to be raised back the the previous limit of .15.
Arresting somebody for consuming such a low amount of alcohol is, in my opinion, cruel and unusual punishment, and, therefore, violates the constitution.
The Declaration of Independence also ensures us the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Ever met a happy sober person? I rest my case. :D
Raise The BAC Limit!
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04-11-2008, 10:19 PMblueeagleRaise The BAC Limit!
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04-12-2008, 12:27 AMzedexRe: Raise The BAC Limit!Have you been drinking again??????Quote:
Quoting blueeagle
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04-12-2008, 04:08 AMExhaustedRe: Raise The BAC Limit!
Was your mother killed when you were 9 by someone who decided it was a good idea to drive after drinking?
I think alcohol is a more dangerous drug than marijuana. The only legality difference is that the government can pad their pockets with the sale of alcohol. -
04-12-2008, 11:29 AMblueeagleRe: Raise The BAC Limit!Well, considering how I wrote this on FRIDAY night!!! What do you think, Zedex?Quote:
Quoting zedex
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04-12-2008, 11:34 AMblueeagleRe: Raise The BAC Limit!Last time I checked marijuana was a plant... so duh.Quote:
Quoting Exhausted
I don't smoke, but I don't have anything against the people who do. -
04-12-2008, 11:53 AMcyjeffRe: Raise The BAC Limit!Actually, alcohol is the fermented residue from plant decomposition.Quote:
Quoting blueeagle
Rum comes from sugar cane.
Vodka from potatoes.
Scotch from peat moss.
Etc. -
04-12-2008, 12:06 PMblueeagleRe: Raise The BAC Limit!Very true, but who knows what the company's put in it. ;)Quote:
Quoting cyjeff
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04-12-2008, 12:30 PMjkRe: Raise The BAC Limit!
Just wait 'til Carl catches you Blue. He is going to whale on your heiney.
Um, not quite correct.Quote:
I decree the current BAC limit of 0.08 is excessive and completely foolish. NOBODY, and I mean nobody, is drunk at that level!
consumed 10 oz of beer one time and I was not able to safely drive a car. I weigh, well, let's say it is past 225lbs. I do not drink with any regularity ( a couple drinks per YEAR) and was really buzzed with that little bit of beer. My BAC was obviously not at a level that would be considered illegal but I was impaired. No doubt about it.
Carl can point to studies that support the current level and probably an even lower level that a typical person becomes impaired. At what level of impairment should we allow a person to drive a car? We thrust our 2 or 3 or 10 thousand pound vehicles to speeds up to 70 (legally anyway). It takes very little loss of focus to cause a very damaging accident.
actually, I would support a law for a 0.00 BAC while driving. It is just that serious. -
04-12-2008, 12:51 PMblueeagleRe: Raise The BAC Limit!
I don't drink and drive anymore. I was worried about hitting a bump and spilling it...
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04-12-2008, 03:34 PMBetty3Re: Raise The BAC Limit!I'm with you jk.Quote:
Quoting jk
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04-13-2008, 08:44 AMSoft_TouchRe: Raise The BAC Limit!Quote:
actually, I would support a law for a 0.00 BAC while driving. It is just that serious.
Yup. There is really no reason to need to be able to drive after you have been drinking. Unless you have a problem. In which case maybe it's a good thing to have Mother Consequence come along and smack you on the forehead. -
04-13-2008, 10:47 AMcdwjavaRe: Raise The BAC Limit!
Well, I'm not going to take the bait on this one ... I just got back from a week in FL (hence my spotty posting) and am still in the afterglow of Disneyworld. Tomorrow I get back to the world of crime so I will try and remain happy until at least then. :)
- Carl -
04-13-2008, 03:19 PMblueeagleRe: Raise The BAC Limit!
Nobody is "baiting" you, Carl. You sound so paranoid. Now take a deep breath. It's all gonna be ok. :)
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04-13-2008, 03:49 PMcdwjavaRe: Raise The BAC Limit!
Well ... the part about .08 equaling two drinks is highly misleading, and designed either to draw people in to the fallacy (i.e. baiting) or just the ramblings of last night's drinking. ;)
This is a topic near and dear to my heart.
- Carl -
04-13-2008, 04:00 PMblueeagleRe: Raise The BAC Limit!How many drinks would it be? I'm actually curious to know. I have heard of people arrested for only two beer.Quote:
Quoting cdwjava
Just to let you know, I don't have it "in for you". I don't wake up in the mornin' thinking "today I'm gonna piss Carl off". No, thats not me! You're my friend. If I really wanted to piss somebody off it would be you. Sorry Carl, but you have to wait in line. My supervisor, my neighbors, a few family members, and a couple co-workers come first. You're just not that important... :D -
04-13-2008, 04:27 PMBetty3Re: Raise The BAC Limit!Do you have kids, Carl - did you take them? Betty3Quote:
Quoting cdwjava
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04-13-2008, 04:38 PMcdwjavaRe: Raise The BAC Limit!A person can be ARRESTED for two 12 oz. beers, certainly. Though this would be unlikely. Hopefully if he was arrested he was impaired. Impairment can begin and can be observed at as low as .02, though realistically it generally starts to become apparent at about .03.Quote:
Quoting blueeagle
Typically one drink will equal about .02 BAC (that is a very simplified formula, mind you), so two beers if consumed back-to-back should result in about a .04.
I never thought you did.Quote:
Just to let you know, I don't have it "in for you". I don't wake up in the mornin' thinking "today I'm gonna piss Carl off". No, thats not me!
I simply read my name mentioned and decided I wasn't going to leap into the fray so early after waking up this morning.
- Carl -
04-13-2008, 04:40 PMcdwjavaRe: Raise The BAC Limit!Yeppers - three boys ranging from 8 to 14 years.Quote:
Quoting Betty3
One week in the fun and sun ... well, a little rain at the beginning. Now, I'm broke ... or nearly so. :(
- Carl -
04-13-2008, 05:01 PMpanther10758Re: Raise The BAC Limit!
We take our five kids 6-11-11-13-17 to Disneyand about twice a year or more. However Tuesday its Mom and Dad's turn we go to Universal just the two of us..Related to topic the normal body processes Alcohol at a rate of one ounce per hour. If you rlooking to avoid being impaired this is good info. for the record Alcohol related deaths are out of control raising the BAC limit would likely send that further out of control. Anyone wanting to raise BAC has never known anyone hurt or killed by an impaired driver
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04-13-2008, 05:07 PMcdwjavaRe: Raise The BAC Limit!When I lived in So Cal we went everywhere all the time ... passes to Disneyland, Seaworld, Knott's, Universal ... ah, the fun.Quote:
Quoting panther10758
- Carl -
04-13-2008, 05:14 PMpanther10758Re: Raise The BAC Limit!
Yes living in so cal of you has its benefits
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04-13-2008, 06:19 PMblueeagleRe: Raise The BAC Limit!
Since when does getting drunk have anything to do with disneyworld? :D
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04-13-2008, 06:32 PMblueeagleRe: Raise The BAC Limit!Read this.Quote:
Quoting panther10758
http://blog.recklessdriving.net/2008...ll-over-again/
Now behave!!
Edit:
I just found this. Apparently there is an E-book about there too!!! -
04-13-2008, 06:57 PMcdwjavaRe: Raise The BAC Limit!
Nothing new there ... but, the blog IS more than 4 years old.
Also note that MADD is just a lobbying group like so many others - including the NRA (which is arguably far more effective at getting ITs way).
Other lobbying organizations can certainly step up and challenge the data and even lobby for higher BACs ... good luck with that! The nice thing about our republic is that anyone can lobby for anything. MADD just does it better than others might.
- Carl -
04-13-2008, 07:11 PMblueeagleRe: Raise The BAC Limit!Because has raised some VERY questionable issues. Some groups argue they violate the Constitution. This is a HUGE no-no. All NRA has to do is point to the second amendment.Quote:
Quoting cdwjava
Keeping gun out of peoples hands is next to impossible. First of all, the citizens are not just gonna hand their guns over to the GOVERNMENT. Second, in most states its illegal for felons on parole to own a firearm, but as a cop I'm sure you're aware how difficult this is to enforce. I could go on all night... -
04-13-2008, 08:09 PMcdwjavaRe: Raise The BAC Limit!How does MADD violate the Constitution?Quote:
Quoting blueeagle
By definition, they cannot.
They have not committed treason ... they have not unlawfully discriminated against someone because of their protected class (race, religion, etc.) ... they are not responsible for enacting or enforcing any laws ... so, how do they violate the Constitution.
And, the NRA's arguments are often based upon what have been rules as faulty interpretations of the 2nd Amendment.
Arguing that your side is in support of one of our rights does not make the argument correct.
It's also impossible to prevent drunk driving shoplifting, rape, drug abuse, child abuse, domestic violence, etc ... sure doesn't mean we shouldn't try.Quote:
Second, in most states its illegal for felons on parole to own a firearm, but as a cop I'm sure you're aware how difficult this is to enforce. I could go on all night...
And many of these crooks get their guns legally in states where they have no background process. You wanna know how far some of the Crips in Los Angeles were going every year to get guns and conversion kits? The discovered that a cross-country road trip could net them a lot of legal firearms with little more than a false or clean ID!
MADD is a lobbyist group the same as many others including the NRA. They just happen to have the hearts and minds of most common folk who understand that one does not have to be tanked to be impaired.
- Carl -
04-13-2008, 08:20 PMpanther10758Re: Raise The BAC Limit!
Carl maybe the point would be better (if you have those stats) how many fatal auto accidents there in Nation or State that involve Alcohol with a BAC below .08. You as Law enforcement and myself as a recovering Alcoholic here and see much of this. attend an AA meeting here some stories attend a DUI class. We are not protecting the American public by raising the limit above .08! Do you know how MADD started? Candy Litner (spelling may be off) lost her 6 year old child to a 6 time DUI convicted driver! Yep 6 time! She lobbied to get the laws toughened to people like this man could not drive and kill more people. MADD as grown into a strong force and advocates for safer roads. Candy has long since left MADD to let someone else take the reins but she did some real good! I know I was a reciepent of those tougher laws. I was arrested five times for DUI convicted 4, I crashed numerous cars, nearly lost my eye, had over 100 pieces of glass pulled out of my face, broke my ribs, rolled my truck down a canyon, the list is endless! If my license had not been taken from me for several years I would hav elikely hurt myself or others. I am grateful for those laws today. I now sit here nearly 22 years without a drink and raise my five children (none have ever sen me drunk) and I pray that the laws are tough enough so my children and family are protected. Raise teh BAC tharts insane and will kill thousands.
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04-13-2008, 08:30 PMblueeagleRe: Raise The BAC Limit!Never said they did. I said their ISSUES have been questioned as un-Constitutional. I'm sure, given a chance, they would like nothing better than seeing prohibition back in effect.Quote:
Quoting cdwjava
Of course we should. But those are CRIMES. There is nothing wrong with owning a firearm.Quote:
It's also impossible to prevent drunk driving shoplifting, rape, drug abuse, child abuse, domestic violence, etc ... sure doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
Yes I know. Either that or buy them from fellow thugs.Quote:
And many of these crooks get their guns legally in states where they have no background process. You wanna know how far some of the Crips in Los Angeles were going every year to get guns and conversion kits? The discovered that a cross-country road trip could net them a lot of legal firearms with little more than a false or clean ID!
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04-13-2008, 08:32 PMblueeagleRe: Raise The BAC Limit!22 years? How do you handle it? Aren't you ever tempted to have one?Quote:
Quoting panther10758
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04-13-2008, 08:41 PMcdwjavaRe: Raise The BAC Limit!But, what you wrote was:Quote:
Quoting blueeagle
"Some groups argue they violate the Constitution."
That seems to imply that you inferred THEY violated the Constitution.
Maybe so. It won't happen, but they have the same right to lobby for that as the NRA has to lobby for a gun in every pocket, and a rocket launcher in every kitchen.Quote:
I'm sure, given a chance, they would like nothing better than seeing prohibition back in effect.
Not when it is done legally, no.Quote:
Of course we should. But those are CRIMES. There is nothing wrong with owning a firearm.
And what I told you about the Crips purchase of firearms WAS legal. That's the point. There is no consistent legislation on this issue and in many states (like VA) even someone committed to mental health counseling can still legally purchase a firearm.
- Carl -
04-13-2008, 08:50 PMcdwjavaRe: Raise The BAC Limit!I'm almost 18 years sober myself (July 14th, 1990 was the date of my last drink).Quote:
Quoting panther10758
In the United States alcohol-related collisions accounted for 17,602 deaths in the year 2006. Of these deaths, drivers with a blood alcohol content of equal to or greater than .08% accounted for 13,470 of those killed (NHTSA National Center for Statistics and Analysis, 2007). To put these numbers into some perspective, consider that the number of people killed in that one year by drunk drivers with a blood alcohol content above the current ‘per se’ limit of .08% is greater than four times the number of soldiers killed in nearly 5 years of combat in Iraq. Or, consider that the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report indicates that the number of people murdered in the United States in 2006 was 17,034 - fewer individuals than the number of people killed in alcohol related traffic collisions that same year (Federal Bureau of Investigation, 2007).
To understand the impact we have to look at the numbers. The best compiled source of data is from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). NHTSA’s 2007 report – updated on January 18 of 2008 – reported that 13,470 fatalities involved drivers with a BAC of .08 or greater. The total number of alcohol related fatalities in 2006 was 17,602 with 15,121 involving participants with a BAC of .08 or higher, and 10,389 with a BAC of .15 or higher (NHTSA National Center for Statistics and Analysis, 2007). Using the confirmed number of involved drivers as 13,470 of the 15,121 fatalities, we can assume some 89% of all “alcohol related” incidents involve drivers of the specified level. Thus we can extrapolate that approximately 9,246 of the fatalities involved drivers with a BAC of .15 or higher. This indicates that more than two thirds of all fatal collisions involve drivers with a BAC of .15 or higher – almost at or higher than double the legal per se limit!
Yes, higher BACs are responsible for more collisions than lower BACs. That is because higher BACs are also far worse off than lower BACs. That is certainly not an argument to support RAISING the per se limit!
Enforcement and education have done wonders over the decades. NHTSA research statistics published in 2005 that indicates that traffic fatalities fell from a high of 26,173 in 1982 down to 16,694 in 2004 “even as the number of miles traveled has increased by 81%”. Research concluded that lowering the per se BAC level from .10 to .08 did not demonstrably reduce traffic fatalities, but that the establishment of a per se law in combination with other penalties had a dramatic effect on the reduction of traffic fatalities.
The .08 limit is not going away soon. I'd pity the politician that campaigns on THAT platform! :eek:
- Carl -
04-13-2008, 08:51 PMBetty3Re: Raise The BAC Limit!Riding the rides at Disneyworld would make me feel drunk - I'm getting too old for them.Quote:
Quoting blueeagle
Carl & Panther - it sounds like you have nice families. -
04-13-2008, 08:54 PMcdwjavaRe: Raise The BAC Limit!Mine's a little more manageable than Panther's - I only have three.Quote:
Quoting Betty3
I found out this trip that Disney puts their people through special training beforte they can serve alcohol at any park and they have a very stiff rule about selling to anyone that even MIGHT be impaired. That, and the $5.50 16 oz. cup have a noticable impact on the serious lack of inebriated folks ... in spite of the heat and the dealing with the occasionally screaming, whining kid. :D
- Carl -
04-13-2008, 09:15 PMblueeagleRe: Raise The BAC Limit!I meant the issues they raised.Quote:
Quoting cdwjava
And a M1 Abrams in every garage! Sorry, couldn't help myself... :DQuote:
Maybe so. It won't happen, but they have the same right to lobby for that as the NRA has to lobby for a gun in every pocket, and a rocket launcher in every kitchen.
Are you serious? Unless fully cured, I don't think a mental person has any right owning a firearm.Quote:
And what I told you about the Crips purchase of firearms WAS legal. That's the point. There is no consistent legislation on this issue and in many states (like VA) even someone committed to mental health counseling can still legally purchase a firearm.
- Carl
I know this is off topic, but do you know any thing about getting a CCW license? Will it allow me to carry a pistol out in public? I know goverment building are restricted, but what about everywhere else? -
04-13-2008, 09:26 PMcdwjavaRe: Raise The BAC Limit!Fair enough.Quote:
Quoting blueeagle
Many states in the south and southeast have a variety of loopholes that allow even the mentally ill to obtain a firearm. Waiting periods and background checks do not exist everywhere, and states that have loopholes for person to person sales or gun show sales ... well, these are scary.Quote:
Are you serious? Unless fully cured, I don't think a mental person has any right owning a firearm.
In my state a CCW is issued by either the sheriff or the local police agency. You have to complete a cursory background check and a training course. Some governmemnt buildings will not allow it, others (most likely some city or county ones) will.Quote:
I know this is off topic, but do you know any thing about getting a CCW license? Will it allow me to carry a pistol out in public? I know goverment building are restricted, but what about everywhere else?
Even private businesses may decline to let you carry it.
But, that's in MY state.
- Carl -
04-13-2008, 09:33 PMblueeagleRe: Raise The BAC Limit!
Can a private business really have a say-so? I guess they could...
Here they are issued by the DPS. Which is good because I pissed the local sheriff off. All I did was call him corrupt... to his face... in public. People are so sensitive. -
04-13-2008, 09:34 PMcdwjavaRe: Raise The BAC Limit!Yep.Quote:
Quoting blueeagle
Heck, there are businesses and entertainment venues that will prevent even off duty cops from bringing guns in!
That'll tend to do it.Quote:
Here they are issued by the DPS. Which is good because I pissed the local sheriff off. All I did was call him corrupt... to his face... in public. People are so sensitive.
- Carl -
04-14-2008, 01:53 PMSoft_TouchRe: Raise The BAC Limit!A mental person? Please, please tell me that was a typo....:wallbang:Quote:
Quoting blueeagle
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04-14-2008, 04:05 PMjff.lawRe: Raise The BAC Limit!
There is no reason for the BAC to be set at .08. The AMA set this number at 1.5 in the 70s by scientific research, and various governments have been lowering it ever since without merit. Its all about the money, and trial lawyers have supported this because its bread and butter for them. Some of these bandits charge eight to ten THOUSAND dollars to defend a second or subsequent offense in many states, and the poor guys the get the 3rd one face some serious felony jail time, so they will pay it, or their families pay it.
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04-14-2008, 04:08 PMjkRe: Raise The BAC Limit!
there is a very easy way to solve this entire thing.
don;t drink and drive...at all.
don't forget all the research on thalidamide and smoking that was done too. It proved there were no damaging effects from those two things.