What Is Considered An "Alcohol Container"?

State: North Dakota


I would like to know what everyone's opinion is on what is considered an "alcohol container"

most importantly...do you consider a shot glass an alcohol container?

That depends. A shot glass that I'm not recently drinking out of, no. A shot glass that I'm drinking out of, yes.

I am talking about a shot glass that was just sitting on my shelf...as a decoration.

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Quoting snowbunnie07

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I am talking about a shot glass that was just sitting on my shelf...as a decoration.

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What was the circumstance?

In other words, how did you come to be cited or arrested, and what was the code section you were charged with?

Very often the definition may very as to the context in particular section of the code.

- Carl

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Quoting snowbunnie07

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I am talking about a shot glass that was just sitting on my shelf...as a decoration.

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No. And I think you can make a pretty good legal argument seeing as how shotglasses are sold everywhere as souveniers, are also used for purposes other than drinking, and may be legally purchased by minors. My daughter uses one to soak jewelry in.

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Quoting 4eyedbuzzard

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No. And I think you can make a pretty good legal argument seeing as how shotglasses are sold everywhere as souveniers, are also used for purposes other than drinking, and may be legally purchased by minors. My daughter uses one to soak jewelry in.

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I suspect there is something more to this story ... I just don't see any cop walking into a room and citing someone for having an open container for having an empty shot glass on the wall. Maybe this involves a school policy, a room and board issue, who knows? Since we have no context, there is no way to say whether this is unreasonable or not.

- Carl

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Quoting cdwjava

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I suspect there is something more to this story ...

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As opposed to all the other stories posted in this forum? ;) :rolleyes: :D

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I just don't see any cop walking into a room and citing someone for having an open container for having an empty shot glass on the wall.

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Nor do I.

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Maybe this involves a school policy, a room and board issue, who knows? Since we have no context, there is no way to say whether this is unreasonable or not.
- Carl

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I also somehow suspect a school or private policy issue here.

it was a room check in a dormitory...i have read the terms of agreement signed upon moving into the dorms. it says that no alcohol or alcohol containers are permitted in the dorms. that is all that is mentioned.

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Quoting snowbunnie07

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it was a room check in a dormitory...i have read the terms of agreement signed upon moving into the dorms. it says that no alcohol or alcohol containers are permitted in the dorms. that is all that is mentioned.

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So ... this is a matter you will have to take up with the university's appeal board, correct? (or whatever administrative panel they have embodied to hear these things)

Were you charged with a criminal offense, or was this simply an administrative matter?

If you were charged with a criminal offense, what specific code section were you cited or arrested for?

- Carl

I think you have a situtation which is one of those black and white gray areas.;)

I think I would consider the entire situation. What is the proposed punishment? If minor, I think I'd make less of a stink about it and try to get past it without making waves. If severe, I think I'd fight it no end including hiring an attorney if necessary.

On its own a shot glass isn't an alcohol container. My teenage daughter has a collection of close to 100 of them as travel souveniers and she doesn't drink. None of them were sold with alcohol in them. Neither are mugs or steins.

An alcohol container by definition and in the context they are using it would tend to be viewed as a vessel regularly used for storage of alcohol such as a beer can, wine bottle, etc. I think applying that standard to glassware such as a shot glass or mug is a rather absurd stretch. Any glass or mug could be viewed as a potential alcohol container in that sense.

I suspect it might fall back on what the university defines as an "alcohol container". There may also have been some other things inside the dorm or room that the college folks are REALLY hanging their hat on.

Again, too little detail.

Criminally, I suspect it's a no go (but that will depend on the definitions related to whatever code section he was cited for ... IF he was cited or arrested for anything).

- Carl

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Quoting snowbunnie07

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it was a room check in a dormitory...i have read the terms of agreement signed upon moving into the dorms. it says that no alcohol or alcohol containers are permitted in the dorms. that is all that is mentioned.

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I found this fact sheet from UND camp. Although it is NOT an ON Campus sheet, it is for illustration and seems to be in line with your dorm rules.

4. Absolutely no alcohol/illegal drugs or underage smoking are permitted at the University of North Dakota or in its residence halls. Possession of empty alcohol containers or the use of chemicals will result in being dismissed from camp.


http://www.housing.und.edu/conference/faq.shtml

If we are assuming the laws of criminal statutory construction are applicable to dorm polices, one must analyze the plain or related meaning of the phrase "alcohol container".

"Container" has an ordinary meaning and so does "alcohol", BUT the 2 are combined "as one" to construct the meaning!!

SD rules of construction:

http://www.legis.nd.gov/cencode/t01c02.pdf

General principles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_interpretation

one rule:

Noscitur a sociis (A word is known by the company it keeps)
When a word is ambiguous, its meaning may be determined by reference to the rest of the statute.


"Container" can include a coffee cup, empty water bottle, dewar flask, etc.

All in all, IMO, the shot glass you possess although may technically, for the sake of argument that is, be an alcohol container, but IMO the dorm is sure walking a fine 14th Amendment Due Process line if you are written up or kicked out for it. I would say they sure are nit picking, IF no other contraband was found to enforce the rules, such as a receipt for any whiskey, empty bottle, etc??

You could have an antique beer stein that was given to you by your father, etc., and is soley for display.

If you are unfairly disciplined for it, you may wish to consult an attorney and possible file a Declaratory Judgment action for a court to determine what exactly an "alcohol container" is defined as by law as applied to dorm rules.

An interesting fact case, to say the least. I have never heard anyone in a situation like this before?

TRY to explain YOUR "intent" on the shot glass decor to them!

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Quoting cdwjava

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I suspect it might fall back on what the university defines as an "alcohol container". There may also have been some other things inside the dorm or room that the college folks are REALLY hanging their hat on.


- Carl

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Hey Carl, check this out. When I was researching alcohol laws for ND, I came across a website (not code just commentary) for MO, that said IF a MINOR is taking out curbside trash from the home and there is empty alchohol containers in it, they are a minor in possession?

Ever hear of such a thing??

i was written up for this...having shot glasses...and am being fined $100 for having them in my room. no other alcohol containers or alcohol were found in my room...only the shot glasses.

There's an old expression that says "You can't fight city hall". :wallbang:

Of course, you can in reality, but you rarely win and when you do it's often a Pyrrhic victory (threw that in to impress everybody :D)

Don't escalate this and get expelled. :eek: Yeah, it's stupid and they have their heads up their butts. Get out a box, wrap them up and take them home next visit. You would think college administrators might have slightly larger minds.:mad: Not these days as they seem to remove their brains along with their spines right after getting hired. Welcome to the new world order.

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Quoting snowbunnie07

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i was written up for this...having shot glasses...and am being fined $100 for having them in my room. no other alcohol containers or alcohol were found in my room...only the shot glasses.

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Be cautious if you let it go. As someone pointed out in another thread about academic reprisals, such as being kicked out, financial aid disqualification, etc.

IF you have no worry about internal scantions and it being on your record, then as Buzzard points out, it may be best to drop it, since they are probably more technically correct than not, as I pointed out about the complete phase "alcohol container"?? Even if defacto correct, if you bought it as a gift at a fair or such and told them that, there is surely legal overkill.

Take a letter to whatever office handles these matters and have explained in writing WHY you possessed this glass and your intent was NOT to violate the rules and although you accept the fine, you really admit no actual rule violation. This can not hurt, and if they try to pull any tricks on you later they will say you have already been disciplined before and use it against you. OR you can send the letter certified, return receipt requested, a better idea.

A good legal trick is to also send yourself a letter, by mail, with the facts, and leave it sealed and unopened, to verify you gave/sent them a letter, this is known as "self service" basically.

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Quoting snowbunnie07

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i was written up for this...having shot glasses...and am being fined $100 for having them in my room. no other alcohol containers or alcohol were found in my room...only the shot glasses.

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"Written up" by whom? For what violation (code section)? Was it the police, school security, the residential advisor? Who do you appeal to? School authorities? Court?

Please, you need to be a little more detailed here.

- Carl

I'd like to caution the OP here that, even though I agree that the charge is absurd, the admin has a lot of power in a school setting. I'd love to see her fight this and shove it back down their throats. But in the real world students can get expelled for defying rules and orders, and her first duty has to be to protecting her and/or her parent's investment in her education and at minimum finish this term.

They may be idiots, but they are in charge.

I got written up by Housing...
and when I got written up, they also took my shot glasses out of my room (i was not in the room when they did the room check) and they will not return my shot glasses until my fine is paid and everything goes through Housing, and I have to talk to the head RA of my dorm...they threatened me that I may not get them back...

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Quoting snowbunnie07

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I got written up by Housing...
and when I got written up, they also took my shot glasses out of my room (i was not in the room when they did the room check) and they will not return my shot glasses until my fine is paid and everything goes through Housing, and I have to talk to the head RA of my dorm...they threatened me that I may not get them back...

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So, this is NOT a criminal matter, it is an entirely administrative issue?

That changes things as they are not likely held to the same standard and any appeal will likely be done through an administrative panel and not through any legal entity such as a court.

Good luck.

- Carl