Okay, kind of lengthy, but I'll try to keep it short. Here's the scenario:
I have a friend in Washington state who got into a fight one night with her boyfriend and she called 911. The cops came, took him to jail and the state slapped on a no contact order. The cops took a statement from her on the night of the incident and after the first court appearance, she had met with the prosecuting attorney. She told the attorney that her statement was inaccurate and she wanted to clear it up, but the attorney told her that if she changed anything in the statement, it could be considered giving a false statement and she could be prosecuted, so she didn't reissue her statement. She then set a court date to lift the no contact order and went before the judge on grounds of hardship, being that they are basically a small family unit as she has no friends or relatives in the area (they have a small child). And before she could even get to say any more than that, the judge said he was leaving the no contact order in place and dismissed her.
He was charged with assault 4 domestic violence even though he didn't actually assault her. (physically anyway - according to the prosecuting attorney, calling her a bitch is assault.) They've been together for 4 years, he has no history of violence. Speeding tickets and driving on a suspended license is about all he has. Anyway, after about 7 months of the courts continuing, and seeing no end to waiting this thing out, she called the prosecuting attorney and told her that she wanted to turn herself in for submitting a false statement. The prosecuting attorney told her it didn't matter, she was going to prosecute him anyway "because that's what victims do".
So, her dilemma is this: 1) knowing that the majority of victims in a domestic violence case ARE women, she feels like no one is wanting to hear her. (Basically, they had an argument, she called 911 without knowing or understanding what the consequences were.) 2) She has since heard that the consequences of a false statement are 3 months to a year in jail, and she's wondering if that's true (she has a young child to consider) and 3) even if she did plead guilty and had to serve time, would they remove the no contact order with her boyfriend so that he would be able to take the child if she has to go to jail, or would the state take the child since he's already the one they're trying to prosecute? (which is what she's most worried about.) Oh yeah, and the last thing she's heard about the case is that he didn't show up on the last court appearance, and no one can seem to find him. She's wondering what's going to happen now? Someone else told her that if he didn't show for court then they probably issued a warrant and the whole thing is a done deal now anyway and even if she wanted to turn herself in, it wouldn't do any good.
Do you have any advice for her on this?
Domestic Violence Mess In Washington State
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01-21-2008, 02:27 AMMismatchedDomestic Violence Mess In Washington State
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01-21-2008, 06:00 AMaardvarcRe: Domestic Violence Mess In Washington State
1) domestic arguement + calling 911, more often than not = someone going to jail
2) even if she confesses to a false statement, if the prosecutor doesn't CHARGE her, it's irrelevent (a HUGE number of domestic violence cases see women wanting to drop charges because they don't know what they'll do without Mr. Wonderful around, only to return home and have the dv continue - so the criminal justice system typically follows thru on cases once the ball is rolling)
3) if he's a no-show to court, yep, there will be a warrant for failure to appear - running from a legal problem is never ever going to make it go away, only make it worse, and add NEW charges on top of existing ones
4) since they are not married, there's no reason to think that even if SHE went to jail that he'd get the child - unless he has legally established paternity already - until that happens the law doesn't even recognize that he even KNOWS the child, much less has any type of parental rights
5) he's in a hole, and it's gonna get worse before it gets better - even if he was going to get a slap on the wrist (like a fine) for the arrest, now he's given the court the proverbial finger by not showing up - so she needs to start figuring out how to get along without him - at least for a while. There is help available, so have her contact her local domestic violence program for assistance. They can offer her much more than a cot at a shelter. -
01-21-2008, 06:01 AMBaystategirlRe: Domestic Violence Mess In Washington State
I will tell you this. This "man" did NOT get four counts of domestic violence charges against him for calling his GF a "bitch".
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01-21-2008, 10:23 AMcdwjavaRe: Domestic Violence Mess In Washington StateThey expect your change of hearty ... more than 75% of victims recant within 48 hours and the number is as high as 85% by the first court appearance. In fact, many victims will risk jail themselves rather than seeing their abuser suffer any punishment - something the abuser would not consider doing for them.Quote:
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The judge apparently understands "battered wife syndrome". He knows that the victim is merely acting out on her victimization.Quote:
And before she could even get to say any more than that, the judge said he was leaving the no contact order in place and dismissed her.
Bull! He did NOT get hooked up and charged with four counts of cursing at her! Unless this prosecuting attorney slept through law school, calling someone a foul name is not assault and battery.Quote:
He was charged with assault 4 domestic violence even though he didn't actually assault her. (physically anyway - according to the prosecuting attorney, calling her a bitch is assault.)
I suspect you did not hear the prosecutor make this comment. If you can, please post back the criminal offenses (code sections) Mr. wonderful has been charged with.
No DOCUMENTED history, anyway.Quote:
They've been together for 4 years, he has no history of violence.
Note that Ted Bundy had no history of violence before he was convicted as a serial killer, either.
In other words, she was not going to allow the victim to do what they often do - save their abuser.Quote:
The prosecuting attorney told her it didn't matter, she was going to prosecute him anyway "because that's what victims do".
Does she also feel that she deserved the beating he gave her?
The police are not domestic counselors. As Aardvarc said, you call 9-1-1 at a scene of a DV and someone is likely going to jail.Quote:
(Basically, they had an argument, she called 911 without knowing or understanding what the consequences were.)
It could be true.Quote:
2) She has since heard that the consequences of a false statement are 3 months to a year in jail, and she's wondering if that's true (she has a young child to consider)
It's likely the state would take the child and would not lift the no contact order. So it's a lose-lose for her.Quote:
3) even if she did plead guilty and had to serve time, would they remove the no contact order with her boyfriend so that he would be able to take the child if she has to go to jail, or would the state take the child since he's already the one they're trying to prosecute?
It will still have to go to trial when he is caught, but if he's on the run then she doesn't have to worry about it for a while. She has time to get her life in order.Quote:
Someone else told her that if he didn't show for court then they probably issued a warrant and the whole thing is a done deal now anyway and even if she wanted to turn herself in, it wouldn't do any good.
Oh, and if she is putting Mr. Wonderful up or concealing him, then she can expect to permanently lose her child when she is arrested.
- Carl -
01-21-2008, 12:58 PMMismatchedRe: Domestic Violence Mess In Washington StateNo, he didn't. It's what she put in the statement that she wanted to correct, but I didn't add what was in it because I didn't know if that was considered details.Quote:
Quoting Baystategirl
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01-21-2008, 01:25 PMcdwjavaRe: Domestic Violence Mess In Washington StateShe can make her corrections during testimony at trial ... though, if it is substantially different than what the police allege she told them she may want to consult an attorney first.Quote:
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Note that many officers record their contacts as field notes and such a recording might exist.
- Carl -
01-21-2008, 02:17 PMMismatchedRe: Domestic Violence Mess In Washington State
Since I don't know how to respond the way you did, I just did a cut and paste.
[QUOTE]She knows. That's why she feels like she's not going to be able to get anywhere.Quote:
Quoting cdwjava
Okay, here's the other part of the story, I just hope this doesn't violate any rules for giving details. He had come home late the past few nights in a row and she was convinced that he was seeing someone else. She had had a few to drink and when he came home she accused him of it which is what the fight was about. He would not fight with her, he would not give her an explanation, he just wanted to go to bed, which to her, drunk and angry was about as good as a guilty plea. When it was clear to him that she was not just going to drop it and let him go to sleep, he decided to get some clothes and go sleep somewhere else for the night. She thought that meant he was going to go stay with this "other woman" and she'd rather see him go to jail instead so she called 911 and was trying to prevent him from leaving before they got there. She actually did the assaulting rather than was assaulted and because she didn't want to go to jail, she only put half-truths in her statement to ensure that he would go. She stated that he called her a bitch, which she says is true, but she didn't put anything in there about what she called him. She stated that he pulled her hair. Which was true, but she neglected to mention that when he escorted her to the bedroom with his hand on her back, (she has very, very long hair) his hand was entangled in her hair, or his ring caught and when he pulled his hand down, it pulled her hair. He didn't just maliciously grab the back of her head and yank on it. She stated that he destroyed the baby's crib, which wasn't really true, but in her anger, she thinks she actually believed it at the time because this was his maddest point. She had assembled the crib earlier that night only to find out she had no screws. He was suppose to bring them home, and so she used some duct tape to temporarily hold it in place. The crib is large and the place and room is small and it blocked his side of the closet. When he went to get clothes to go sleep elsewhere, she grabbed his arm to try to prevent him from leaving. He yanked it away which threw her off balance and when she grabbed the crib for balance, the sides fell over. Since she was blocking his way, he then flipped the bottom of the crib over onto it's side so he could step over it to get around her. Thus, the destroyed crib. On his way out the door, she grabbed him again, and they had a computer monitor sitting on the edge of the dresser that in that same grab and jerk motion, they managed to knock it off the dresser. She didn't file the monitor thing on the report, but the police came and took pictures of the room. By the time the police had arrived, he had scratches on him that were bleeding and she was afraid that they would take her to jail instead, thus her reasons for only quoting half the truth. (which in my opinion, is still lying.)Quote:
Bull! He did NOT get hooked up and charged with four counts of cursing at her! Unless this prosecuting attorney slept through law school, calling someone a foul name is not assault and battery.
Not sure what you mean here.Quote:
I suspect you did not hear the prosecutor make this comment. If you can, please post back the criminal offenses (code sections) Mr. wonderful has been charged with.
No, but she did catch a lot of crap from people who have known him for most of his life because apparently he's a pretty laid back guy and no one has heard of him ever being violent. Including his x-wife, although she complained of a lot of thoughtlessness, but that's hardly a crime.Quote:
No DOCUMENTED history, anyway.
He didn't beat her. He just wouldn't argue with her and wouldn't give her an explanation which infuriates her.Quote:
Does she also feel that she deserved the beating he gave her?
Yes, and she's upset about that as well, she says because they teach you all through school if you ever have a problem or need help, just call 911. Who keeps the sheriff's number in their mental roll-a-dex? 911 is so much easier to remember.Quote:
The police are not domestic counselors. As Aardvarc said, you call 9-1-1 at a scene of a DV and someone is likely going to jail.
She's not putting him up or concealing him. She hasn't even gotten to talk to him since the incident. She doesn't even know if there is a relationship left and she's wondering how long this can last because she'd really like to know.Quote:
Oh, and if she is putting Mr. Wonderful up or concealing him, then she can expect to permanently lose her child when she is arrested.
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01-21-2008, 02:36 PMcdwjavaRe: Domestic Violence Mess In Washington StateIt's never a good idea to post details on the Internet.Quote:
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Though, you post a lot of details for someone who is just a "friend" ...
Then she should definitely speak to an attorney because she could be arrested on a few things here if this ever goes to trial.Quote:
She actually did the assaulting rather than was assaulted and because she didn't want to go to jail, she only put half-truths in her statement to ensure that he would go.
I don't buy the accidental pull bit, and I doubt a jury will, either.Quote:
She stated that he pulled her hair. Which was true, but she neglected to mention that when he escorted her to the bedroom with his hand on her back, (she has very, very long hair) his hand was entangled in her hair, or his ring caught and when he pulled his hand down, it pulled her hair. He didn't just maliciously grab the back of her head and yank on it.
Even if assembled with duct tape, if his actions caused it to collapse, then he did it.Quote:
She stated that he destroyed the baby's crib, which wasn't really true,
She really needs to speak to an attorney.
If he's on the run, then he likely had some other issues as well. Most innocent people to become fugitives. I doubt he's going to look sympathetic or believable.
And if you are NOT the victim in this, then the account you are getting may be the modified and watered down version from the victim as she attempts to rationalize what happened. If she DID lie, then she needs to speak to an attorney and then come clean, hoping that she does not get in TOO much trouble.
- Carl -
01-21-2008, 02:39 PMMismatchedRe: Domestic Violence Mess In Washington StateHow long can this go on for, how long does it stay on your record, and are there any ways to lift no contact orders so that she can see if they can work things out?Quote:
5) he's in a hole, and it's gonna get worse before it gets better - even if he was going to get a slap on the wrist (like a fine) for the arrest, now he's given the court the proverbial finger by not showing up - so she needs to start figuring out how to get along without him - at least for a while. There is help available, so have her contact her local domestic violence program for assistance. They can offer her much more than a cot at a shelter.
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01-21-2008, 02:46 PMMismatchedRe: Domestic Violence Mess In Washington State
[QUOTE=cdwjava;167184]It's never a good idea to post details on the Internet.
She's a very good friend and she doesn't have the internet. She's just relaying the story and telling me what she wants to find out, I'm just doing the typing.Quote:
Though, you post a lot of details for someone who is just a "friend" ...
I very well could be getting the watered down version. But it's her story, not mine. I'm just trying to do her a favor by seeing what I can find out for her. Thanks so much for the information and advice.Quote:
And if you are NOT the victim in this, then the account you are getting may be the modified and watered down version from the victim as she attempts to rationalize what happened. If she DID lie, then she needs to speak to an attorney and then come clean, hoping that she does not get in TOO much trouble.