Freedom Of Speech Vs. Disturbing The Peace
What is the difference between these two?
I posted on another forum about the original issue, but I'm wondering if the differences between these two, as it seems to me that from reading all the ACLU information, our guarantee to freedom of speech is what is at stake.
Electric company guy comes to re-connect our service. We are on our yard, but he enters our yard to connect the service, so we move to our front lawn/sidewalk about 5 feet away from him. The guy shows up with a "security" officer from our development complex. We are angry at the injustice that the electric company has done for over 3 years, well documented in the press and we also have proof. The security guard tells us it's not the guy's fault that we are having these issues. We tell him things such as, "it's nobody's fault, this is ridiculous...for over 3 years they have been stealing from us, they go after people in our development because they think we have money, while in the news it's out all the time they are thieves and actually the own employees of the electric company steal the electricity, etc"...we are NOT talking to the guy, but to the police officer...yet the guy keeps trying to interrupt our conversation and making up excuses for everything that we have been through, although he does not know what we have been through, etc...We only answer his questions with such things as "don't tell me to file a grievance because we have filed numerous and they have done nothing, etc..."
We are again about 5 feet away from the guy, on our front lawn/my husband walking on our sidewalk from side to side (about 20 feet), but not in the guy's face or anything like that.
The guy has filed "disturbing the peace" charges against us for this.
I thought disturbing the peace was blocking someone from entering a building, etc...or asking him to get down and fight...or getting in is face to provoke him, etc...but we did none of this.
I have read that the government cannot make laws to stop you from expressing your opinion, whether positive or negative of anyone...
Can someone please tell me the laws on this, the difference or a specific case/source where I can find information to help us with this issue?
Thanks in advance.
Re: Freedom Of Speech Vs. Disturbing The Peace
There are limits to every freedom and sometimes two freedoms conflict as set forth in your post.
Re: Freedom Of Speech Vs. Disturbing The Peace
Quote:
Electric company guy comes to re-connect our service. We are on our yard, but he enters our yard to connect the service, so we move to our front lawn/sidewalk about 5 feet away from him. The guy shows up with a "security" officer from our development complex. We are angry at the injustice that the electric company has done for over 3 years, well documented in the press and we also have proof. The security guard tells us it's not the guy's fault that we are having these issues. We tell him things such as, "it's nobody's fault, this is ridiculous...for over 3 years they have been stealing from us, they go after people in our development because they think we have money, while in the news it's out all the time they are thieves and actually the own employees of the electric company steal the electricity, etc"...we are NOT talking to the guy, but to the police officer...yet the guy keeps trying to interrupt our conversation and making up excuses for everything that we have been through, although he does not know what we have been through, etc...We only answer his questions with such things as "don't tell me to file a grievance because we have filed numerous and they have done nothing, etc..."
On a practical note, what good does it do you to harangue the tech from the electric company and a security guard from your complex? You say yourself that they are not responsble for your problems.
In very simple terms, your rights end where someone else's begin.
Re: Freedom Of Speech Vs. Disturbing The Peace
Quote:
Quoting
las365
On a practical note, what good does it do you to harangue the tech from the electric company and a security guard from your complex? You say yourself that they are not responsble for your problems.
In very simple terms, your rights end where someone else's begin.
Two things...
1. I did not insult our security guard at any point.
2. The electric company tech guy is responsible for part of the problem...the part that they were to connect our service and did not for over 8 hours, and as soon as we call and complain, he's in our house within minutes...which means, that he was around doing nothing...but with all of that, I did not personally insult the guy, I only expressed my outrage at the lousy service the company has provided, etc.
In addition, the law states that the electric company MUST inform you they are disconnecting the service by knocking on your door and sending you a written notice...neither of which happened.
When you state "my rights end where someone else's begin"...means what? Sorry, but I'm confused because he was on my property. He could've very easily left my property, he actually should've asked to enter my property, neither of which happened. He also could've kept quiet and done his job, instead of saying things back to us as well.
In addition, it is my understanding that before you are charged with disturbing the peace, an officer (not a security guard) must tell you that you are disturbing the peace and could be charged, but that did not happen because the security guard took it upon himself to play police officer, instead of calling the police if he indeed felt that we were disturbing the peace. And the security guard not knowing any laws, also did not tell us that we were disturbing the peace.
This was around 1030PM and not a single neighbor was out. We were not so loud that any neighbors awoke, mind you, we have no central air in our houses here, so you can normally hear a dog barking during the night.
We were away from the guy, not next to him, so there was no physical threat to him.
Sorry, I am just trying to get my ducks in a row here.
By the way, where we live, in the news/on the radio, etc...very vocal protests are done daily...Many with hate language, etc...So, it seems once again that this is allowed provided the people with the mean language are "lower income" vs. upper income. This is exactly my point with the issues, as higher income people in the country are constantly harrassed by lower income and nothing is done. As soon as it is turned around, the lower income people file lawsuits...
PS - in addition, we found an executive for the firm that is actually ON OUR SIDE and stated that the guy should've never filed these charges and that in addition, we have a case against them for disconnecting the service without notice, etc...
So, I'm just confused as to why expressing my opinion of a service is viewed as "disturbing the peace", but the guy walking into my yard without even saying "good night, I'm here to disconnect your service, may I come in", is not.
Re: Freedom Of Speech Vs. Disturbing The Peace
Just as a matter of clarification, the electric guy only filed a police report stating a complaint. Whether charges will be filed or not will depend on the prosecutor. But remember that a police report can be filed on just about anything - and as CDW so humorously pointed out in another recent post: "just because someone files a report that Martians have landed doesn't make it so". Sometimes the filing of the report is just intended to be a display of throwing weight around, even if it won't go anywhere.
My personal take on it, just by way of experience (and I am NOT an attorney), is that there MIGHT have been, at most, a violation of a city or county noise ordanance - most of which say something like "you can't make any kind of noise that can be heard thru walls or at a distance greater than 50 feet" (or some such distance). This is what they usually use to shut down parties, make people turn down their music, etc. Since this complaint came from this single individual (and NOT from other people who might be considered "the public" whose peace was supposedly disturbed), it's possible the report will end up with a few scoffs and that'll be that.
Re: Freedom Of Speech Vs. Disturbing The Peace
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Quoting
whatamess
What is the difference between these two?
I had a post typed out then realized the "potential" charge was "disturbing the peace". Initially my type was about "disorderly conduct".
Aardvark seems right. I don't see how a DP charge can be brought unless you were very loud or boisterous? I am not saying you were, but any alleged NON protected 1ST Amendment speech would fall under a Disorderly conduct statute/similar law, such as fighting words, hate speech/racial epiteths, etc.
For a government to prosecute under any alleged unlawful speech, a 1st AM hurdle must be overcome by them
As ADVK points out though, simply filing a complaint with the police is not a guarantee it will be prosecuted.
Re: Freedom Of Speech Vs. Disturbing The Peace
Quote:
Quoting
whatamess
Two things...
In addition, it is my understanding that before you are charged with disturbing the peace, an officer (not a security guard) must tell you that you are disturbing the peace and could be charged, but that did not happen because the security guard took it upon himself to play police officer, instead of calling the police if he indeed felt that we were disturbing the peace. And the security guard not knowing any laws, also did not tell us that we were disturbing the peace.
It is possible he may have been designated as some type of "special" police officer. Some municipalities have passed laws giving licensed security guards "limited" police powers.
That aside, even assuming he had a right to arrest, he did not and filed a paper complaint. This means if any prosecution is commenced, he MUST be a witness for the state, since they have no case without him or the electrical repair man.
Unless state law or the = municipal ordinance states for a DP charge to be filed the actor MUST be informed first that his/her conduct rises to that level, such is not neccessary. I "very seriously" doubt the law states that, but possible, yes.