California - Pulled over doing 95 on 65

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Quoting NRM

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Hi guys, I'm sorry, but I'm not too saavy with the technical talks, can one of you please clarify what you are discussing?

Am I going to be able to attend traffic school for this citation? And if I am, I should go to court and try to plead against it because no matter what the case verdict is, I will still be eligible for traffic school? Is that what's going on?

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What it means that unless you have a commercial license or were driving a commercial vehicle you are not prohibited by statute from attending traffic school. Court policy, however, MAY not provide you with that option. And, of course, prior traffic school can also prohibit you from attending - depending on how long ago it was.

When you receive your notice from the court they will advise if you are eligible for traffic school. And, in spite of the cited case law, the court still has the discretion of assigning traffic school or not at the conclusion of trial. It is, however, common practice for traffic school NOT to be provided on a guilty verdict received during trial.

- Carl

Thanks for the clarification.

So if I'm allowed traffic school, I should take it, because if I go through trial and end up guilty, I may lose my right to traffic school. But if I'm not allowed to take traffic school, there's no reason for me not to go to trial, as I may stand a chance after that. Is a trial different than the arraignment? I'll have to look up and see if I can dig some information about court policies here in Santa Clara.

I know I could wait until I get my notice in about 2 weeks, but this thing has been itching on the back of my mind for a while now. The court date is set to December 9, 2005. Do you know anything about Trial By Written Declaration? Someone provided me a site through PM and I don't know much about it or if it's a good practice at all.

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Quoting NRM

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Thanks for the clarification.

So if I'm allowed traffic school, I should take it, because if I go through trial and end up guilty, I may lose my right to traffic school. But if I'm not allowed to take traffic school, there's no reason for me not to go to trial, as I may stand a chance after that. Is a trial different than the arraignment? I'll have to look up and see if I can dig some information about court policies here in Santa Clara.

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Correct ... you MAY not be offered traffic school should you lose at trial.

Whether you should contest it or not is, of course, your call. If you think you stand a good chance of instilling reasonable doubt on the matter, or want to chance that the officer might not show, you can always plead not guilty and go to trial. Generally you are given the chance BEFORE trial (i.e. before you take the stand to testify) to plead 'not guilty' or 'no contest' in exchange for Traffic School if you are eligible.

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I know I could wait until I get my notice in about 2 weeks, but this thing has been itching on the back of my mind for a while now. The court date is set to December 9, 2005. Do you know anything about Trial By Written Declaration? Someone provided me a site through PM and I don't know much about it or if it's a good practice at all.

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I have heard many different things about trials by declaration ... some good, some bad. The good thing is that if you lose you can request a 'trial de novo' which is, essentially, a new trial. However, I have also heard that some courts will remove traffic school as an option on the new trial ... but I don't know that for a fact.

The advantages of a trial by declaration is that you get a chance to be articulate. The problem is that unless you have a good defense, you are essentially writing that you are guilty and providing an explanation. If you don't have a good, articulable defense, then you may want to take a chance in court that the officer will not show up.

There are books and links all over the place that can tell you how to write a TBD. How good they are, I couldn't say. In my 15 years in the career I have had to write only one, and I know of few officers that have had to write many more.

- Carl

Carl thanks for the plethora of information. Are you a laywer in the SC area? If I am granted traffic school, I'll most definitely just pay the bail and go to school. I honestly do not have a good defense as I most certainly was speeding (probably not as fast as he wrote), but I was on the downhill section and trying to get around trucks.

So unless I do a little research about radar gun calibration and all that good jazz, I probably won't be able to articulate a good defense. But if I'm not granted the option of traffic school, I may just go on ahead with it is I can't lose more than I can gain. They can't up the fines at court could they? Or even bump it up to wreckless driving?

They can't generally raise the fines in court ... but they might add court fees to the total - and this can be substantial. And they won't up it to reckless driving as speed by itself cannot constitute a violation of CVC 23103 ... and they are not permitted to blindside you in court that way.

No, I'm not an attorney, I'm a cop. But I am familiar with the Bay Area having lived there for most my life.

- Carl

Oh, and for DaveBis, I found the rules of court that establish the traffic school eligibility ... I KNEW I wasn't recalling this from out of nowhere!

The breakdown seems to have been that the CLERK cannot offer traffic school to someone exceeding 25 MPH (i.e. offer it before trial), but, apparently, the court CAN.

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/rules/ti....htm#TopOfPage

Rule 851. Procedures and eligibility criteria for attending traffic violator school

(a) [Purpose] The purpose of this rule is to establish uniform statewide procedures and criteria for eligibility to attend traffic violator school.

(Subd (a) amended effective January 1, 2003; previously amended effective July 1, 2001.)

(b) [Authority of a court clerk to grant pretrial diversion]


(1) (Eligible offenses) Except as provided in subdivision (2), a court clerk is authorized to grant a request to attend traffic violator school when a defendant with a valid driver's license requests to attend an 8-hour traffic violator school as pretrial diversion under Vehicle Code sections 41501(b) and 42005 for any infraction under divisions 11 and 12 (rules of the road and equipment violations) of the Vehicle Code if the violation is reportable to the Department of Motor Vehicles.

(2) (Ineligible offenses) A court clerk is not authorized to grant a request to attend traffic violator school for a misdemeanor or any of the following infractions:

(A) A violation that carries a negligent operator point count of more than one point under Vehicle Code section 12810 or more than one and one-half points under Vehicle Code section 12810.5(b)(2);

(B) A violation that occurs within 18 months after the date of a previous violation and the defendant either attended or elected to attend a traffic violator school for the previous violation (Veh. Code, §1808.7);

(C) A violation of Vehicle Code section 22406.5 (tank vehicles);

(D) A violation related to alcohol use or possession or drug use or possession;

(E) A violation on which the defendant failed to appear under Vehicle Code section 40508(a) unless the failure-to-appear charge has been adjudicated and any fine imposed has been paid;

(F) A violation on which the defendant has failed to appear under Penal Code section 1214.1 unless the civil monetary assessment has been paid;

(G) A speeding violation in which the speed alleged is more than 25 miles over a speed limit as set forth in Chapter 7 (commencing with section 22348) of Division 11 of the Vehicle Code;

(H) A violation that occurs in a commercial vehicle as defined in Vehicle Code section 15210(b); and

(I) A violation by a defendant having a class A, class B, or commercial class C driver's license.

(Subd (b) amended effective September 20, 2005; previously amended effective January 1, 2003.)

(c) [Judicial discretion]

(1) A judicial officer may in his or her discretion order attendance at a traffic violator school in an individual case for diversion under Vehicle Code section 41501(a), 41501(b), or 42005; sentencing; or any other purpose permitted by law. A violation by a defendant having a class A, class B, or commercial class C driver's license or that occurs in a commercial vehicle, as defined in Vehicle Code section 15210(b), is not eligible for diversion pursuant to Vehicle Code sections 41501 or 42005.

(2) If a violation occurs within 18 months of a previous violation, a judicial officer may order a continuance and dismissal in consideration for completion of a licensed program as specified in Vehicle Code section 41501(a). The program must consist of at least 12 hours of instruction as specified in section 41501(a). Pursuant to Vehicle Code section 1808.7, a dismissal for completion of the 12-hour program under this subdivision is not confidential.

(Subd (c) amended effective September 20, 2005; amended and relettered as part of subd (b) effective January 1, 2003; previously amended effective January 1, 1998.)

Rule 851 amended effective September 20, 2005; adopted effective January 1, 1997; previously amended effective January 1, 1998, July 1, 2001, and January 1, 2003.

- Carl

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Quoting cdwjava

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They can't generally raise the fines in court ... but they might add court fees to the total - and this can be substantial. And they won't up it to reckless driving as speed by itself cannot constitute a violation of CVC 23103 ... and they are not permitted to blindside you in court that way.

No, I'm not an attorney, I'm a cop. But I am familiar with the Bay Area having lived there for most my life.

- Carl

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I thought that court fees were taken from the bail amount. Maybe I was wrong.

As for the rest, does that mean I can't get traffic school by pleading guilty with explanation and asking for a request? Or would I have to go through the trial process to request it?

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Quoting "NRM

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I thought that court fees were taken from the bail amount. Maybe I was wrong.

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The courts are permitted to extract fees for their costs in addition to the fines. Specifically what these are kind of varies. At the office I have a copy of the standardized fines and fees ... though there are a few fees that are permitted to be added on. Ultimately, you might have to contact the court handling your matter to know what costs might be added on after court.

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As for the rest, does that mean I can't get traffic school by pleading guilty with explanation and asking for a request? Or would I have to go through the trial process to request it?

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No, you CAN get traffic school by requesting it IF you are eligible.

When you get the courtesy notice you will know if you are eligible without a judge's approval or not. If you are not eligible due to the speed for a pre-trial traffic school request, a judge can always act to allow you to attend traffic school. That would mean going to trial unless it can be resolved by a judge at arraignment (your first hearing - the date on the citation).

- Carl

Alright thank you. About the date of arraignment, can I rescedule it or make an appointment? I still have 3 months, but the date on the ticket is not good for me. Can I go to an earlier one?

You usually can go earlier. Call the court and find out how you might arrange that. Most courts will work with you on that.

- Carl