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A query on possession laws.

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  • 10-05-2007, 08:44 PM
    danielpalos
    Re: A query on possession laws.
    Maybe we can use a hypothetical scenario to help explain some concepts.

    In this hypothetical scenario, there is a citizen in possession of a Thing. The citizen believes he has a 9A power and right to possess that Thing. The state, however, believes that an individual does not have a right to possess that specific Thing and feels it has the right to confiscate that Thing.

    In this scenario, it does not matter how the police stopped, questioned, or discovered that the Thing was in the citizen's possession. The police simply requested that the Thing be turned over to them. In this case, the citizen refuses, and claims a 9A power and right to possess the Thing in question. Also, in this scenario, there has been enough tranquility; such, that it can be called a peaceful exchange of words between the police and the citizen.

    The question then, is when does the state have the right, via the authority, to deny and disparage an individual's right to possess a given Thing.
  • 10-05-2007, 09:01 PM
    deadlock
    Re: A query on possession laws.
    Quote:

    Quoting danielpalos
    View Post
    Maybe we can use a hypothetical scenario to help explain some concepts.

    In this hypothetical scenario, there is a citizen in possession of a Thing. The citizen believes he has a 9A power and right to possess that Thing. The state, however, believes that an individual does not have a right to possess that specific Thing and feels it has the right to confiscate that Thing.

    In this scenario, it does not matter how the police stopped, questioned, or discovered that the Thing was in the citizen's possession. The police simply requested that the Thing be turned over to them. In this case, the citizen refuses, and claims a 9A power and right to possess the Thing in question. Also, in this scenario, there has been enough tranquility; such, that it can be called a peaceful exchange of words between the police and the citizen.

    The question then, is when does the state have the right, via the authority, to deny and disparage an individual's right to possess a given Thing.

    The very answer to this hypothetical Thing Question, that is of interest and concern lies in the how police stopped, questioned or discovered the Thing was in the citizen's possession.

    And if the Thing was unlawfully possessed by the citizen then such Thing will remain the property of the state. If confiscated and later discovered citizen has a right to carry such Thing, it will be returned to such citizen.

    You may reference this website constructed for those persons who might be interested in learning about the Constitution, the A's and it has some practice sessions where you can practice identifying which rights may have been violated.

    http://score.rims.k12.ca.us/score_le...ill_of_rights/
  • 10-05-2007, 10:29 PM
    danielpalos
    Re: A query on possession laws.
    Quote:

    Quoting deadlock
    View Post
    The very answer to this hypothetical Thing Question, that is of interest and concern lies in the how police stopped, questioned or discovered the Thing was in the citizen's possession.

    And if the Thing was unlawfully possessed by the citizen then such Thing will remain the property of the state. If confiscated and later discovered citizen has a right to carry such Thing, it will be returned to such citizen.

    You may reference this website constructed for those persons who might be interested in learning about the Constitution, the A's and it has some practice sessions where you can practice identifying which rights may have been violated.

    http://score.rims.k12.ca.us/score_le...ill_of_rights/

    Let's assume that normal and proper procedures were used; and the citizen claims a 9A power and right to deny and disparage the right of the state, and its enforcers, to confiscate the Thing in question.

    For the purposes of this scenario, let's further call that denial and disparagement, a "citizen's nullification" power and right, arising from the 9A.
  • 10-05-2007, 10:34 PM
    deadlock
    Re: A query on possession laws.
    Quote:

    Quoting danielpalos
    View Post
    Let's assume that normal and proper procedures were used; and the citizen claims a 9A power and right to deny and disparage the right of the state, and its enforcers, to confiscate the Thing in question.

    For the purposes of this scenario, let's further call that denial and disparagement, a "citizen's nullification" power and right, arising from the 9A.

    Ok. Sure. That works.
  • 10-06-2007, 03:14 AM
    BOR
    Re: A query on possession laws.
    Quote:

    Quoting danielpalos
    View Post
    Does anyone have any links to the historical development of general possession laws in the US?

    How did possession is nine tenths of the law come about?


    A little research of phrase origins has revealed one answer. Originally it was "Possession is nine points of the law", which through development of it over time evolved into, "Possession is nine-tenths of the law".

    To wit:

    The original nine points of the Law were: (1) a lot of money; (2) a lot of patience; (3) a good cause; (4) a good lawyer; (5) a good counsel; (6) good witnesses; (7) a good jury; (8) a good judge; and (9) good luck.


    Quote:

    And when can possession laws, deny and disparage, an individual's liberty and 9A power and right?
    Amendment IX

    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people

    Amendment X

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

    AM's 9 and 10 are not "specific rights" AM's as the others.


    One SC justice even wrote in the body of his opinion many years ago, the true Bill of Rights are AM's 1-8.

    If you have a specific right to possess a commodity under the federal constitution, then NO, a state can not pre-empt that right.


    For example, several years ago Congress passed an act that permitted an active police officer, and in some cases, a retired one, to possess and cary a "concealed weapon" Nationwide, regardless of state law restrictions, so interstate possession is now the law of the land.
  • 10-06-2007, 03:28 AM
    BOR
    Re: A query on possession laws.
    Quote:

    Quoting danielpalos
    View Post
    The common law marriage issue is a state prerogative, from my understanding.

    Not sure how this is a 9A conundrum, but marriage is state scantioned. A state is free NOT to give Full faith and credit to a public act of another state which violates thier own public policy. In other words, no state has to permit a common law marriage be recognized simply because it is a public record of another state.

    Of course, the federal constitution/SCOTUS has addressed marriage issues before, such as Loving v. Virginia concerning VA's antimiscegenation statute and when they addressed the issue of gay marriage.

    Hence, a state can NOT deny a marriage license to an interracial/mixed couple, but can forbid same sex marriages, under the constitution.
  • 10-06-2007, 06:28 AM
    seniorjudge
    Re: A query on possession laws.
    Quote:

    Quoting deadlock
    View Post
    I am under the assumption that there is now and has been some type of connection thing between the state and police. Therefore, it must stand as logical deduction that if there is substantial domestic tranquility within the common law of doctrine, the police power is adequate and lawfully called upon to settle a domestic dispute.

    In the event that the state is in possession of the Ninth Amendment the state may call an emergency use of state police to quell the state of unequal tranquility within the common law marriage.

    Although there remains outstanding, in this issue of possession, the doctrine which allows for the possession of the domestic partner given that the common law marriage is so condoned by the state. As long as there is no threat or situation where there is no domestic tranquility there should not be the need for the use of police power in nine tenths of the situations where this has been called.

    It would not then be disputed that there is no denial or disparage of the 9A and right to hold power as long as there is no interference with that same person’s want for power.

    Your cigar is in the mail for The Best Danny Imitation Yet!
  • 10-06-2007, 06:39 AM
    deadlock
    Re: A query on possession laws.
    Quote:

    Quoting seniorjudge
    View Post
    Your cigar is in the mail for The Best Danny Imitation Yet!

    Thank you. :D
  • 10-06-2007, 07:10 AM
    cbg
    Re: A query on possession laws.
    I'm still trying to figure out whether Daniel's mother was frightened by an Oxford English Dictionary before he was born, or whether he just ate one for breakfast.
  • 10-06-2007, 07:21 AM
    seniorjudge
    Re: A query on possession laws.
    Quote:

    Quoting cbg
    View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out whether Daniel's mother was frightened by an Oxford English Dictionary before he was born, or whether he just ate one for breakfast.

    Yes to both questions.:p
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