Hi all. I found some threads on this issue but they were closed so I decided to start another.
I became interested in this subject when I accidentally discovered the existence of these sights a few years ago. I've written to a lot of people about this and haven't really gotten much of a respnse.
I know that this webe web has been shut down and the people involved arrested. Good! But what about all the other sites? There have to be hundreds! It just baffles me why people think that this is okay to do. You don't pose kids in skimpy clothes or underwear and call it decent modeling!
Somebody told me that President Bush signed some kind of law awhile back that makes sexually explicit cartoons, of what can be thought to be kids, the same thing as child porn. Well, that's another issue. But is there anything that makes this modeling crap illegal? Are most of these sites operating overseas? I wsh someone would educate me as to what's going on with this stuff. Thanks.:confused:
Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The Internet
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09-12-2007, 01:13 PMMichael56Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The Internet
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09-12-2007, 01:17 PMaaronRe: The issue of child modeling sites on the Internet
Most of the sites are operating overseas.
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09-12-2007, 05:24 PMMichael56Re: The issue of child modeling sites on the Internet
Thanks Aaron. I figured that they were.
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09-15-2007, 10:13 AMMichael56Re: The issue of child modeling sites on the Internet
The response from a site called asacp.org is that these sites are not illegal. Okay, if that's true then why did they shut down that one and arrest the owner and photographer? I'm confused. :wallbang:
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09-15-2007, 11:29 AMaaronRe: The issue of child modeling sites on the Internet
The sites may be illegal. It would depend on the site and its content.
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09-15-2007, 03:36 PMMichael56Re: The issue of child modeling sites on the Internet
I see. Sounds like it's made far more complicated than it has to be. I'm all for freedom of expression and 1st ammendment rights but when it comes to this stuff...............Thanks.
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09-23-2007, 03:35 AMblueeagleRe: The issue of child modeling sites on the Internet
Any sicko that makes a "child modeling" site needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Thats just sick.
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09-23-2007, 07:09 AMMichael56Re: The issue of child modeling sites on the Internet
I agree 150%. I don't know if you have ever seen any of these so called child modeling sites but they're disgusting. And there seems to be hundreds of them. We're not talking cute, innocent, department store or television modeling. We're talking little girls in thong panties in very seductive poses.
That Florida senator Foley really brought it to light when he campaigned against that childsupermodels.com. that was based in the state. But then, he himself, crashed and burned over computer e-mails or messages involving minors. "Childsupermodels" was owned by a company called Webe Web. The authorities finally shut it down and arrested the owner and photographer on child porn/exploitation charges.
But, supposedly, there have been parents of some of these "models" come forward to defend the practice saying things like, "Well, my daughter made more in just a few months than I made all last year. This money will pay for her college education and then some." What kind of parent is this if this is true? What kind of parent allows their child to be photographed like this? They have to know what the idea behind it is! They can't be that stupid! Anybody with an ounce of brains ought to be able to figure that out!
I read a story concerning "childsupermodels" that said a woman had been taking her daughter there because she was under the impression it was a stepping stone to a good career for the child. She was allowed in to the sessions at first, but then the photographer asked her to wait in another room for the rest of the sessions because he said it made the models nervous. She could see the photographer but not her daughter from her vanatge point.
When the guy took a break and left the room during one session, she snuck in to see her daughter and saw her laying there in not much more than thong panties. The girl pled with her to not say anything because the guy had displayed a gun he was carrying and she was afraid of what he might do. They finished the session and went straight to the FBI when they left.
I don't know. It's just terrible the things people will do to make a buck anymore. What's really sad is the number of kids that are being exploited with this, the money that's made on it, and the people that try to justify it. If some of these people are the parents of these kids how do you stop it? I don't care what country you live in it's just wrong! -
03-29-2008, 05:56 PMDramamineRe: The issue of child modeling sites on the InternetAgain, sorry to be dragging up old threads, but this type of blanket reaction bothers me. While I'm not aware of most of the webeweb stuff, I gather that the guys running it aren't or weren't exactly nice guys, and that many of the photos were not tastefully done to say the least. However, this does not mean that there shouldn't be sites out there legitimately trying to further the careers of those kids who actually want to be models.Quote:
Quoting blueeagle
Industry is actually harmed by statements like this as it may put the fear of prosecution on the minds of retailers of children's clothing. Retailers who would like to have models wearing the clothes that they sell in order to give parents a better idea of how the clothes, especially swim wear, will look on their child before they buy it. As many people order online these days, retail websites really do need to have these sorts of photos on their site. It would be nice if they didn't have to worry about the possibility of being charged with a crime by some overzealous prosecutor. -
03-29-2008, 05:57 PMblueeagleRe: The issue of child modeling sites on the Internet
Them sites ain't right! Anybody who makes one needs a good Texas hangin'! We don't like them there pedophiles in Texas!
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03-29-2008, 06:01 PMDramamineRe: The issue of child modeling sites on the Internet
So, a site resembling an expanded version the kids section of the Sears summer catalog is some kind of porn? I'd really hate to live in your world. It sound much too scary to me :p
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03-29-2008, 06:14 PMblueeagleRe: The issue of child modeling sites on the InternetWell, it ain't right no way. You get that? Nothin' good would ever come out of these "child model" sites.Quote:
Quoting Dramamine
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03-29-2008, 06:21 PMDramamineRe: The issue of child modeling sites on the Internet
I'd call it a wash, the kids may get to do something for their local Wal-Mart Sunday circular and feel good about that. The bad part comes when someone refers to the Sunday circular as porn and starts threatening Wal-mart and the local paper.
The people who just like looking at kids, for whatever reason, can't be helped in most cases. Plus then it gets into an Orwellian thought police kind of thing and we really don't want to go there. -
03-29-2008, 11:31 PMsouperdaveRe: The issue of child modeling sites on the InternetYa got that right!!! Any "ad" that draws upon any sort of purient interest, or response, is far from legit to begin with! I did find the "expanded Sears catalog" comment a bit silly. I have yet to see a catalog that even comes close to being construed as kiddie porn. Well, maybe the "Abercrombie&Fitch" one a few years back, but that was about it.Quote:
Quoting blueeagle
There always will be a world of difference between a Sunday circular and pics that'll get ya three to five. To think otherwise is to have a pretty loose grip on reality. IMHO! -
03-29-2008, 11:41 PMblueeagleRe: The issue of child modeling sites on the InternetYee haw!!!! You might not be a Texan (we're not all perfect), but you know them there molesters ain't good. How about this, we get all them offenders together and have us a good Texas hangin'? We can start with my town. I'll bring the the cold beer, you bring the BBQ, and Gigirle can bring the rope. We need to keep BOR away though. He might show up with a copy of the "bill of right". We don't want them offenders thinkin' it applies to them. :pQuote:
Quoting souperdave
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03-30-2008, 12:00 AMsouperdaveRe: The issue of child modeling sites on the Internet
I do like your style! And BOR should be welcome.......I'm always up for a bit o' debate before a good ol' fashion lynchin'!:)
How 'bout we meet up for the shindig in the piney woods near Tyler? That way we'd give them chainsaw mutants somethin' to do after we leave!
Gotta be supportive of the locals.:D -
03-30-2008, 09:28 AMgigirleRe: The issue of child modeling sites on the InternetNo, the industry is harmed when someone who knows little about the issue/site in question and then connects it with the Sunday newspaper and an overzealous prosecutor!Quote:
Quoting Dramamine
The industry you speak of is harmed by these sites NOT overzealous prosecutors. It's about the kids not the money.
Personally, IMHO, there shouldn't be swimsuit "models" unless they are adults. I have 3 daughters and they have all shopped for swim wear based on what it looked like ON THEM not on some random model. And if they are looking at the model its to judge HIS appearance and not the clothes his is wearing. Proving the point that it's for exploitation purposes.
Kids should want to play not work for a living and any parent who pushes their kid into this industry should also be charged. -
03-30-2008, 11:16 AMDramamineRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The Internet
Good grief! I cannot believe the draconian, puritanical views of those who have responded. All I was saying with my earlier comment is that these sites can be professionally done in good taste and look much more like a summer catalog than some site for perverts.
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03-30-2008, 11:24 AMgigirleRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The InternetThe sites refered to in the OP have been shut down many times in the states. They are not anything close to the Sears catalog it is by american standards kiddie porn. The sites you say can be professionally done yes, I agree and thats part of the problem. They clean up a little and get up and running again. I'm sure if you had visited a few of them you would understand why some of us are so compasionate about them being shut down. These are by all accounts innocent children.Quote:
Quoting Dramamine
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03-30-2008, 12:59 PMDramamineRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The Internet
I understand the need to protect these kids, and I'm all for it. However, I am not willing to protect them to such an extent that they are essentially banned from participating in what should be an innocent and fun activity for them. Yes, we should watch the producers of these sites, and monitor their content closely. The problem with knowing when they cross the line legally is that nobody is really sure where the legal line is. The legal definition of child porn is so vague that it's a wonder that it can be enforced in cases where no overt sexual activity is taking place. To simply express your opinion that images that personally cause you great discomfort are child porn is easy. Proving it is legally child porn is much more difficult. I think there may be a case for exploitation of minors for some of these sites, but outright child porn may be to difficult to prove from a legal standpoint.
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03-31-2008, 08:10 AMsouperdaveRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The InternetYou drew some rather ridiculous comparators in some of your earlier opines. There is nothing draconian nor puritanical about my views. Any website (regardless of how far you go to try to draw a comparison, you keep going back to 'the web') that has to raise the question of "is this decent or not?", most likely is not! It may be, but I'd bet there's a 99.98% chance it isn't!Quote:
Quoting Dramamine
Gigirle stated it rather well!
Correction, she stated it VERY well!!! -
03-31-2008, 09:09 AMDramamineRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The Internet
So it's the format that bothers you? If it's on the web it's immediately suspect in your view? Why? I want specifics here. All I've seen so far is generalities and non specific arguments. Without specifics for why you feel the way you feel, I'm left with the impression that you don't have any. Other than these sites make you uncomfortable, and thus should be made to go away. By "These sites" I'm speaking of sites where no sexual activity is occurring, they just feature young girls wearing all manner of clothing.
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03-31-2008, 09:27 AMHappy TrailsRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The Internet...and the purpose of them doing that would be?Quote:
Quoting Dramamine
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03-31-2008, 10:08 AMDramamineRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The Internet
So there it is. The immediate assumption that this type of site's sole purpose is to attract perverts. What if it isn't? What then?
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03-31-2008, 10:14 AMHappy TrailsRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The InternetI'm simply asking you what the purpose of the site would be.Quote:
Quoting Dramamine
It took you nearly twenty minutes to come up with something that avoided the question. -
03-31-2008, 10:38 AMDramamineRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The Internet
The purpose would be to provide a way for these girls to put their portfolios up on the net in the hope of getting into some sort of an ad. Our responsibility would be to help make sure that this was as safe an activity for them as possible. Not to just arbitrarily disallow such activities because of what some people might be thinking.
Oh, and you did a find job of deflecting my question as well. -
03-31-2008, 10:54 AMHappy TrailsRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The InternetNow see, that wasn't such a hard question.Quote:
Quoting Dramamine
I didn't have enough information to answer your questions, that is why I asked mine.
There are several issues that bother people. If you research this site for the Webe Web thread, you will see what those issues are. I don't want to regurgitate them again.Quote:
So it's the format that bothers you?
I don't see where anyone stated that. Perhaps the sites that have crossed the line have made people skeptical as to what the true purpose of these sites are, or that some sites are hiding behind an excuse that this is benefitting the child while others see it as exploiting them.Quote:
If it's on the web it's immediately suspect in your view?
If you look into the other thread, all of this has been discussed. You will find what that site did wrong and why it was rightfully shut down.Quote:
Why?
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03-31-2008, 10:55 AMgigirleRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The Internet
Dramamine...can I ask you to put an age group specific to the group that you are refering to as being okay to post on the internet.
These children you are refering to need to be in school getting their education not putting their "portfolios" on the net with hopes to be the next top model. They are not legally allowed to have sex in most states who why would you put them in a situation to exploit their sexual being? For the purpose of selling clothes?
Don't get me wrong, I believe that it's your body. If my 18 yr old came home and said she wanted to do a layout for playboy, I would support her 110%. We are not talking about adults, we are talking about children.
Who are you refering to when you say:Who is the our?Quote:
Our responsibility would be to help make sure that this was as safe an activity for them as possible.
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03-31-2008, 12:31 PMDramamineRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The Internet
Happy trails, I have read the webe web thread, and in that case, they certainly seemed to have exploited those girls. As to the question of if it's actually pornography, the courts must decide that.
gigirle, Age is not relevant to my argument. I simply contend that if these girls wish to participate in an activity such as this, then we (society) need to do what we can to make this activity as safe as possible for them. That means closely monitoring the sites for content and requiring any questionable photos to be removed. failing that, the sites get shut down. I honestly cannot see a problem with such a site if they are playing by the rules, and not pushing the limits of what is or is not legal. -
03-31-2008, 08:19 PMblueeagleRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The InternetSounds like somebody has a little crush on Gigirle. :pQuote:
Quoting souperdave
But yeah, these "child model sites" are only visited by pedophiles. And pedophiles need a good Texas hangin'!!! -
03-31-2008, 08:39 PMDramamineRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The Internet
blueeagle, do you have anything that you'd like to actually contribute to this discussion? Besides repeating your same old blanket statements that is.
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03-31-2008, 09:57 PMblueeagleRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The InternetI think i've said everything that needs to be said. I ain't gonna sugar coat it like the rest of these people. I'm not as nice as they are. Now quit defending those pervert that look at them there sites!Quote:
Quoting Dramamine
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04-01-2008, 08:51 AMDramamineRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The Internet
I'm not defending the sites where laws are actually being broken. I'm just saying that there are sites out there where the laws aren't being broken, that don't deserve to be shut down because of the ones that are breaking the law. I'm also trying to look at this from a legal standpoint and have a discussion on the legality of these sites in general. Blanket statements or emotional outbursts don't really do anything to further the discussion.
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04-01-2008, 01:55 PMblueeagleRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The Internet
Maybe,. maybe not. But ask yourself this: What kind of people look at child model sites?
I have zero problem with ADULT swimsuit models. Hell, they make a huge contribution to society. I just have to draw the line when it come to people under 18. It ain't right. -
04-01-2008, 03:19 PMDramamineRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The InternetNow you're getting into that whole thought police thing. I honestly don't know what all of the different kinds of people are looking at those sites, but I'd be willing to bet that they ain't all perverts. To me, it ain't right to shut something down just because someone thinks that someone else is thinking bad thoughts because of it. Truth be told, the ones thinking bad thoughts will think those thoughts anyway.Quote:
Quoting blueeagle
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04-01-2008, 03:26 PMseniorjudgeRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The InternetOkay.Quote:
Quoting Dramamine
Sit down.
I agree with blueasseagle.
Dramamine, you are an idiot.
This has nothing to do with thought police.
It is protecting children.
I have zero problem with ADULT swimsuit models. Hell, they make a huge contribution to society.
Immeasurable contribution!:D -
04-01-2008, 03:26 PMblueeagleRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The Internet
You got me there. Putting restrictions on something will not stop people from wanting to do it. But these kids are still being violated.
Prehaps we could make it illegal for parents to allow their children to become child models? -
04-01-2008, 03:29 PMblueeagleRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The InternetBlueasseagle? Thats the most insulting thing anybody on here has said to me. Everybody else's insults are limited to things like "big meanie". :DQuote:
Quoting seniorjudge
Amen, your honor!Quote:
I have zero problem with ADULT swimsuit models. Hell, they make a huge contribution to society.
Immeasurable contribution!:D
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04-01-2008, 03:33 PMseniorjudgeRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The InternetI've sure gotten old! I've had two bypass surgeries, a hip replacement, new knees, fought prostate cancer and diabetes; I'm half blind, can't hear anything quieter than a jet engine, take 40 different medications that make me dizzy, winded, and subject to blackouts. Have bouts with dementia. Have poor circulation; hardly feel my hands and feet anymore. Can't remember if I'm 85 or 92. Have lost all my friends but, thank God, I still have my driver's licence.Quote:
Quoting blueeagle
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04-01-2008, 03:35 PMblueeagleRe: Legality Of Child Modeling Sites On The InternetNah, you're no more dangerous than us drunks out there. :DQuote:
Quoting seniorjudge