The Corrections System Is Not Working

I think the corrections department is in desperate need of review, I have recently held a forum for law week in Melbourne about conditions in the police holding cells being way below human rights standards, still there is a long way to go.

I think the Police and justice departments are well aware that the corrections system is not working as the rate of recidivism is very high and people who have been in prison just keep retuning and the community is not safer from them being inside either.

Crime continues, often when an offender has been in prison they learn better skills in crime, how to avoid getting caught and even crimes which previously they had not thought of.

Prison fosters a criminal mentality and people who have committed crimes and have been inside find comfort in a sense of belonging in there. There is no incentive for change because when one is out they live on the edge and whatever money that comes is a bonus and not appreciated and when they hit prison everything is hunky dory cause that's where the bills get paid for nothing.

How is there an incentive for change in such an enviroment?

It is obvious to me, (an I wouldn't be the only one), that most who commit crimes are driven to committing crimes through their drug addiction. Prison is supposed to not only punish, but more importantly rehabilitate (not only for the benefit of the offender, but the community at large). This is not happening and the whole system is in desperate need of re-addressing.

Home detention does not work either, it encourages loved ones to be jailers and only offers temporary comfort and no incentive to look at offending behaviour.

In prison one finds a sense of belonging in gangs, it is encouraging this behaviour.

In prison one is stripped of any dignity, through strip searches and general treatment, and when one gets treated like a dog they will often behave like one.

Drugs are hardly never found in strip searches, neither are weapons, offenders know how they will be searched and how to hide their drugs (it is their occupation after all).

Ice users are on the increase and heroin users look like tame schoolgirls in comparison. Violence gets fostered in prison and ice is a drug which has proven to stimulate anger in people.

Something needs to be done and prison does not seem to be the answer, it is a waste of money and is not working.

I have argued against this thinking for a while now, but it is obvious the current issues are not being addressed, instead criminals are being made in the very system that is supposed to reform.

Are you speaking from experience?

If you can produce a cure for drug addiction, you will become an extremely rich man.

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Quoting werewolffan98

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Something needs to be done and prison does not seem to be the answer, it is a waste of money and is not working.

I have argued against this thinking for a while now, but it is obvious the current issues are not being addressed, instead criminals are being made in the very system that is supposed to reform.

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and what would your suggestions be??

I don;t know if it has been formally accepted that rehabilitation is no longer the intent of the prison system or not but it is definately the un-official stance in many states.

Prison is simply intended to be punitive action.

anything that most would truly see as punishment would be considered to be inhumane, adverse to civil rights, or cruel.

I got no problem with that myself though. It's kind of like fining Paris Hilton (or other wealthy folks) for breaking the law. It is not a punishment due to the ease in fulfilling that punishment. When many of the criminals go to jail, it is simply too easy and fulfilling the punishment is not seen as a punishment.

What needs to be imposed is punishment that is seen as punishment, but then the civil rights advocates step in and claim cruel etc.

give us a solution wolffie

Because i feel that there should be a reformation of the laws,Because many people make mistakes like being in the wrong place at the wrong time and they end up in Jail,Personnaly i don't know, Probably something like "Censure" or to warn the person and if the person does the thing a second time then they belong in prison, Because i believe that people given the chance will "Correct" their behavoir.




But People like Murderers,and Robbers,and fraudsters belong in prison.

I also think that child rapists should be given the death penalty.

The only problem I have with the Corrections System is that the dispicable criminals don't have to pay the taxpayers back for wasting all of the taxpayers money, ie. 3 square meals a day, warm bed, free clothes, shoes, use of institutional libraries, healthcare (to an extent) free representation. It wouldn't bother me one bit if they got one meal a day, slept outside in the elements and had to use a rock as a pillow and their teeth rotted out of their heads. Not breaking the law is not that hard.

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Quoting Invest2

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Not breaking the law is not that hard.

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It is if everything is against the law. Most convictions are bogus because the defendant was coerced into pleading guilty. It is persecution of the poor, plain and simple.


About prison reform, I think that anyone who can sentence a person to time in jail or prison must have also served (an equal or greater) time in jail or prison. Jail and prison should not to be taken lightly. These are literally death camps in modern day "democratic" nations. AIDS, gangs, assault, etc.

The problem now is that judges give out lengthy sentences without realizing what it means to have to be imprisoned.

Death penalty should be abolished. If someone deserves to die, it will happen regardless.

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Quoting werewolffan98

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I think the Police and justice departments are well aware that the corrections system is not working as the rate of recidivism is very high and people who have been in prison just keep retuning and the community is not safer from them being inside either.

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Something needs to be done. Revolutions are begun and won on issues such as these.

Going Backwards: US Jail, Prison Popluation Has Biggest Rise in 6 Years

Quote VC

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About prison reform, I think that anyone who can sentence a person to time in jail or prison must have also served (an equal or greater) time in jail or prison.

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I am not sure that this makes sense. Are you suggesting that a judge should spend time as a prisoner only to experience being in prison? Why do you think someone should be punished for determining the penalty of one who is found guilty of a crime against society?

To me that doesn't make sense.

Do you know statistics on the rate of recidivism?
The last statistics I found were from 1994. But most statistics are broken down into types or categories. It makes it much easier to discuss relevant issues instead of discussing global topics like

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Most convictions are bogus because the defendant was coerced into pleading guilty.

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Understood there is a personal experience you are relating to with this but what do you actually know about those persons who are found guilty because they were coerced?

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Quoting deadlock

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Are you suggesting that a judge should spend time as a prisoner only to experience being in prison?

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No, I am suggesting that only people who have been incarcerated should be able to incarcerate others. For instance, if someone is charged with burglary, the trial judge should have served at least five or ten years in a jail so that if the person is convicted, the judge will be able to sentence him or her to five or ten years.

Let's say someone has a misdemeanor with a possibility of one year in jail. The trial judge should have served at least one year in jail as well so as to be able to sentence the convict to a year if necessary.

The point here is to have people who have experience of what incarceration is really like doing the sentencing. The way we have it now, it is like a nurse doing an anesthesiologist's job, or a car mechanic prescribing a remedy to fix the Space Shuttle.

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Quoting deadlock

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do you actually know about those persons who are found guilty because they were coerced?

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Yes, I personally know many people who were coerced into plea bargaining. If you don't know what I am talking about, a good way to learn is to read the book Courtroom 302.

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Quoting VinceColeman

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No, I am suggesting that only people who have been incarcerated should be able to incarcerate others. For instance, if someone is charged with burglary, the trial judge should have served at least five or ten years in a jail so that if the person is convicted, the judge will be able to sentence him or her to five or ten years.

Let's say someone has a misdemeanor with a possibility of one year in jail. The trial judge should have served at least one year in jail as well so as to be able to sentence the convict to a year if necessary.

The point here is to have people who have experience of what incarceration is really like doing the sentencing. The way we have it now, it is like a nurse doing an anesthesiologist's job, or a car mechanic prescribing a remedy to fix the Space Shuttle.





Yes, I personally know many people who were coerced into plea bargaining. If you don't know what I am talking about, a good way to learn is to read the book Courtroom 302.

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Are you on drugs?

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Quoting Baystategirl

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Are you on drugs?

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No, what would makes you think that I am "on drugs"?

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Quoting VinceColeman

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No, what would makes you think that I am "on drugs"?

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Your reasoning...

Quote VinceColeman:

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The point here is to have people who have experience of what incarceration is really like doing the sentencing. The way we have it now, it is like a nurse doing an anesthesiologist's job, or a car mechanic prescribing a remedy to fix the Space Shuttle.

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Hardly. Serving time for conviction is not a job. The point here is the judge is doing his job.

How about you take a look at yourself for putting yourself in your situation. It is not the fault of anyone other than you. You want to have a pity party because you pled guilty, received a minimal sentence and two years probation, skipped town and are facing the consequences of your actions. Now your blaming the judge? Go figure!:rolleyes:

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Quoting deadlock

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Quote VinceColeman:

Hardly. Serving time for conviction is not a job. The point here is the judge is doing his job.

How about you take a look at yourself for putting yourself in your situation. It is not the fault of anyone other than you. You want to have a pity party because you pled guilty, received a minimal sentence and two years probation, skipped town and are facing the consequences of your actions. Now your blaming the judge? Go figure!:rolleyes:

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Deadlock....By Vince's reasoning we shouldn't even be ALLOWED TO HAVE AN OPINION on this subject unless we have committed crimes, skip probation and have to face a prison sentence.:rolleyes:

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Quoting Baystategirl

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Deadlock....By Vince's reasoning we shouldn't even be ALLOWED TO HAVE AN OPINION on this subject unless we have committed crimes, skip probation and have to face a prison sentence.:rolleyes:

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Bay,

You are exactly right. I think I'll let Vince debate with himself about sentencing.

Just for laughs- if Vince was to sentence himself what do you think he would decide?:D for himself that is? for a crime he didn't commit? well, he pleaded guility but that was coerced. He admits to resisting arrest and being drunk but not driving the car........:confused:

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Quoting deadlock

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Bay,

You are exactly right. I think I'll let Vince debate with himself about sentencing.

Just for laughs- if Vince was to sentence himself what do you think he would decide?:D for himself that is? for a crime he didn't commit? well, he pleaded guility but that was coerced. He admits to resisting arrest and being drunk but not driving the car........:confused:

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Is he actually qualified to sentence himself for anything? After all he never did serve any time....So I guess he would have to leave his sentencing up to the local gang-banger or arsonist....;)

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Quoting Baystategirl

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Is he actually qualified to sentence himself for anything? After all he never did serve any time....So I guess he would have to leave his sentencing up to the local gang-banger or arsonist....;)

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Yep. http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27577

He has done time previously -was on probation and called a friend to pick him up (too drunk to drive-but claims he had no car to begin with). Anyway. That's when this current episode started... he saw the cops and fled the scene when the gal hit a patch of "black ice" (she left to call get help). The officers took him to a hospital for serum blood etoh levels when he refused a breathalyzer. Next thing he is being coerced to plead no contest ... I think you know the rest.

I think it is very interesting that he insults those persons who have taken time to answer his questions and give him advice, not once but several times. I don't he needs any more advice- he's got all the answers.;)

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Quoting deadlock

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Yep. http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27577

He has done time previously -was on probation and called a friend to pick him up (too drunk to drive-but claims he had no car to begin with). Anyway. That's when this current episode started... he saw the cops and fled the scene when the gal hit a patch of "black ice" (she left to call get help). The officers took him to a hospital for serum blood etoh levels when he refused a breathalyzer. Next thing he is being coerced to plead no contest ... I think you know the rest.

I think it is very interesting that he insults those persons who have taken time to answer his questions and give him advice, not once but several times. I don't he needs any more advice- he's got all the answers.;)

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Agreed!!!;)

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Quoting deadlock

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Serving time for conviction is not a job.

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You have misunderstood my analogy. I was not implying that serving time is a job, but I don't see how you can successfully argue that it is not a job anyways. You don't have an option of serving your time(unless you feel that you need to "fire" yourself), just like you don't have the option of not working, unless you want to get fired. Again, having a person who has never been incarcerated sentence people to incarceration is akin to having a backyard auto mechanic diagnose and attempt to fix the Space Shuttle.

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Quoting deadlock

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How about you take a look at yourself for putting yourself in your situation.

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I did not put myself into this situation. The police did, do you think that I just run around trying to find pigs to harass so that I can be persecuted and thrown in jail? No, this is entirely the fault of the police state that we now have to endure. It's probably only going to get worse for citizens. If you don't believe me, why not come back here and post your experiences exactly one year from now, maybe then you will have realized the slippery slope that we, as nation, are rushing down.

Did I ask for these pigs to come and assault, persecute and jail me for something I did not do? No, everyone would have been just fine WITHOUT any pigs oinking their snouts around.

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Quoting deadlock

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received a minimal sentence and two years probation, skipped town and are facing the consequences of your actions. Now your blaming the judge?

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Minimal? Not by a long shot. I never blamed the judge for anything. I don't even live in the town in which this police harassment occurred. In fact, the whole time, everyone involved knew that I live over 300 miles away from the town. They also knew that I did not have a car, or driving papers.

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Quoting Baystategirl

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Deadlock....By Vince's reasoning we shouldn't even be ALLOWED TO HAVE AN OPINION on this subject unless we have committed crimes, skip probation and have to face a prison sentence.:rolleyes:

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Another gross misrepresentation. You two wouldn't happen to work in the JustUs system, would you?:rolleyes:

I never specified that a sentencing judge would have to commit a crime, only that they spend time incarcerated in order to be "qualified" to sentence people. Judges too often give out incarceration as punishment without fully appreciating what that entails. See the analogy above for a clearer picture of what I mean.

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Quoting deadlock

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He has done time previously -was on probation and called a friend to pick him up (too drunk to drive-but claims he had no car to begin with). Anyway.

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What part of "I don't drive and I don't own a vehicle or have driving papers" don't you understand?

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Quoting deadlock

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I think it is very interesting that he insults those persons who have taken time to answer his questions and give him advice, not once but several times.

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I only respond in kind. For example, if a poster is condescending, I reply in a the same tone. Are you defending Mr. Knowitall's smart alec posts? Other than that, I have not insulted anyone else here, unless they are pigs and saw my yard sign that I posted here. In that case, I hope that their computer freezes on that picture!

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Quoting deadlock

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I don't he needs any more advice- he's got all the answers.

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I've only got one question remaining about this case. What is the procedure for withdrawing a guilty plea and what constitutes proof of coercion?

Quote VinceColeman:

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Are you defending Mr. Knowitall's smart alec posts?

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Mrknowitall's comments are never smart alec posts. In fact this person is one of few who seems to tolerate smart asses who come here and ask dumb questions by consistently responding to them with legal information. Because of this I would bet Mrknowitall would respond to you again regardless your criticisms.

Unfortunately, you are an example of the "42% (parolees) were returned to prison or jail"... "Unsuccessful discharges include revocations of parole, returns to prison or jail, and absconders. Parolees who are transferred to other jurisdictions and those who die while under supervision are not included in the calculation of success/failure rates."

I don't think you are capable of hearing anything that might help your case.

There are regular responders on this forum who are police officers whom you have insulted with your graphics and words. Don't expect those persons who do know answers to your questions to respond.

You may soon begin to see that you are burning your bridges exactly as you have with the way you presented yourself on this forum.

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Quoting Invest2

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Not breaking the law is not that hard.

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In The Middle Ages/Renaissance under the “Sumptuary Laws” it was illegal for a peasant to wear the clothes associated with royalty,and in Circa 1337 it was illegal to associate with the Irish,or adopt their customs or way of life,and in 1492 it was illegal for Jews to live in spain a law that wasn’t repealed until the 1920’s and supposedly it was illegal to suggest that the earth rotated around the sun,and until Lawerance VS. Texas there was no privacy.

Thanks again for reminding us that all laws are just.

But what is the term for a King who ignores the demands of his Peasants?


And i read in the 1600's Christmass Carols were banned by the Church.

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But what is the term for a King who ignores the demands of his Peasants?

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18 years (after a revolt)? :confused:

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Quoting werewolffan98

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But what is the term for a King who ignores the demands of his Peasants?

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Wait a minute... I know this one....

King!

JMO- who would want to live in Spain, esp with Ferdinand & Phillip?

Their attempt wasn't successful anyway. :D

I have been trying to say that for years! You are absolutely right! NOW, how do we fix the situation. Someone told me to just put a fence around California and let all the drugees have it. WE REALLY NEED TO FIND AN ANSWER TO THE PROBLEM. soon!

It's a horrible day. I just typed a very long post only to loose it. Sad. My knowledge could have saved millions.

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Quoting glendagoodwitch

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I have been trying to say that for years! You are absolutely right! NOW, how do we fix the situation. Someone told me to just put a fence around California and let all the drugees have it. WE REALLY NEED TO FIND AN ANSWER TO THE PROBLEM. soon!

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Please let me know before you do this - I need to get out.

Also, what are your plans for relocating Disneyland? I'm thinking - Vegas! :D

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Quoting blueeagle

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It's a horrible day. I just typed a very long post only to loose it. Sad. My knowledge could have saved millions.

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Always cut/repaste before you post. Myspace taught me that.

Unexpected errors my eye...

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Quoting Bamboonga

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Always cut/repaste before you post. Myspace taught me that.

Unexpected errors my eye...

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I will keep that in mind.

Click the "remember me" box when you log in.

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Quoting aaron

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Click the "remember me" box when you log in.

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Why? I don't need to. Firefox keeps the information saved for me.

I couldn't agree more with the statement that prisons are filled with people who commit crimes because of drug addiction.

The solution to the problem is simple. Fix the problem...the addiction. I know I'm going to catch hell for this but please be open minded and do some research before you bash me.

The system of addiction (and I say system bc its just that) needs to be fixed first. Our society has been taught that there is no cure and the ONLY way that you can fix it is thru a 12 step program. AA/NA specifically. Now, I know that these programs have worked for many and have saved many, I can respect that. But the truth of the matter is, as a whole, they don't work. And it's not necessilary bc they didn't work it, which is what they are taught. Those that do succeed with these programs are the exception and not the rule. These programs tell these people that their way IS the ONLY cure. I would be willing to back any of my statments up with statistics, just PM me.

People are not born with addictions, they are behaviors. They are learned behaviors. Once the bad choices lead to criminal activity they are entered into the system of drug rehabilitation, which is about as good as the prison system. That is the first step of the entire screwed up system.

Bill had some wonderful ideas for the year he wrote the Big book..but we are now in the 21st century. Look at it this way...you are told you have a medical condition for which the only cure is God and/or higher power. This is no longer true. Give the drug antibuse to an alcoholic and they will become deathly ill....this drug cures a lot of them.

You are then told that relapse is part of the disease. What? How this ever became acceptable is beyond me, other that it was sometime in the 1930's and sounded good. A way of releaving the guilt maybe. The drug addict just accelerated on the hampster wheel.....why bother, it's just gonna get worse and there is no cure. I have no money no place to go, my family hates me, I have a criminal record and can't get a job...hey prision doesn't sound so bad.

What do we get for this? Cuts in funding and research to other options. Currently AA/NA is the only approved AMA program for recovery and addiction. Everything is geared towards this bc they are told that they work if you work them. This is not true, AA's own statistics prove they don't work. Common sense also dictates this as most of these people (if not all) have had court ordered meetings they have been required to attend, and if it worked, they would not be filling up our prisons. Oh yeah, they are supposed to relapse, it's part of the disease. (accelerating even faster on the wheel now).

Research supports higher success rates with other programs. Yet they are not covered by insurance and options are not made available to them. Lots of these criminals start out with productive lives who carry jobs and insurance. Check your local area, call a social worker at a local hospital and ask where someone would go for help. You would be amazed how few places there are for these people to go when the problems first come into the picture. If you put something into place in the beginning, that stands a chance of succeeding, the problem would start to fix itself.

Let the bashing begin.....:p

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Quoting blueeagle

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Why? I don't need to. Firefox keeps the information saved for me.

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So your login doesn't time out when you are writing very long posts.

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Quoting gigirle

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I couldn't agree more with the statement that prisons are filled with people who commit crimes because of drug addiction.

The solution to the problem is simple. Fix the problem...the addiction. I know I'm going to catch hell for this but please be open minded and do some research before you bash me.

The system of addiction (and I say system bc its just that) needs to be fixed first. Our society has been taught that there is no cure and the ONLY way that you can fix it is thru a 12 step program. AA/NA specifically. Now, I know that these programs have worked for many and have saved many, I can respect that. But the truth of the matter is, as a whole, they don't work. And it's not necessilary bc they didn't work it, which is what they are taught. Those that do succeed with these programs are the exception and not the rule. These programs tell these people that their way IS the ONLY cure. I would be willing to back any of my statments up with statistics, just PM me.

People are not born with addictions, they are behaviors. They are learned behaviors. Once the bad choices lead to criminal activity they are entered into the system of drug rehabilitation, which is about as good as the prison system. That is the first step of the entire screwed up system.

Bill had some wonderful ideas for the year he wrote the Big book..but we are now in the 21st century. Look at it this way...you are told you have a medical condition for which the only cure is God and/or higher power. This is no longer true. Give the drug antibuse to an alcoholic and they will become deathly ill....this drug cures a lot of them.

You are then told that relapse is part of the disease. What? How this ever became acceptable is beyond me, other that it was sometime in the 1930's and sounded good. A way of releaving the guilt maybe. The drug addict just accelerated on the hampster wheel.....why bother, it's just gonna get worse and there is no cure. I have no money no place to go, my family hates me, I have a criminal record and can't get a job...hey prision doesn't sound so bad.

What do we get for this? Cuts in funding and research to other options. Currently AA/NA is the only approved AMA program for recovery and addiction. Everything is geared towards this bc they are told that they work if you work them. This is not true, AA's own statistics prove they don't work. Common sense also dictates this as most of these people (if not all) have had court ordered meetings they have been required to attend, and if it worked, they would not be filling up our prisons. Oh yeah, they are supposed to relapse, it's part of the disease. (accelerating even faster on the wheel now).

Research supports higher success rates with other programs. Yet they are not covered by insurance and options are not made available to them. Lots of these criminals start out with productive lives who carry jobs and insurance. Check your local area, call a social worker at a local hospital and ask where someone would go for help. You would be amazed how few places there are for these people to go when the problems first come into the picture. If you put something into place in the beginning, that stands a chance of succeeding, the problem would start to fix itself.

Let the bashing begin.....:p

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There is one basic flaw in your argument.

People that are addicted to drugs made a conscious decision to partake. This is not a birth defect or something you get because you live in substandard housing.

The kneejerk reaction to blame the drugs for the addiction and not the people taking them is noble... but let's the addict claim that all actions done in accordance with that addiction are not their fault.

Granted, some people are more likely to become addicted than others due to personality or body chemistry. Still doesn't allow them to partake.

Lastly, let's not forget that the other primary purpose of prison (the first being punishment) is to provide a barrier between the common population and dangerous elements.

Addicts, you say, are hardly dangerous elements. Sure, their addiction may force them to steal, rob or harm others to feed their habit, but that doesn't make them DANGEROUS...

Then what is your definition of Dangerous?

I think you have misunderstood me. I've reread my post and I'm really not sure where your getting the impression that I condone addicts. I was merely pointing out the flaw in the system (drug rehabilitation).

For starters, I agree COMPLETELY with you. I agree that all of them are making CHOICES. What I meant when I said .."they are learned behaviors" is that they are NOT diseased, they are making bad choices, which would never constitiute as a disease. What I am saying is that they enter programs like AA and NA and these programs teach them that they are diseased and this behavior is ok because you were born that way. This part of the system TEACHES them that it is okay to do this. Thus they jump on the hampster wheel never to get off. No one is born knowing how to shoot up heroin or smoke crack it is learned.

I'm not sure where you got the impression that I believe addicts are not dangerous as I never even used the word in my post. I believe the opposite. They should be locked away if they commit the crimes. If you are high on any drug (alcohol or drugs) and you commit crimes....don't cry about the punishment. I think they should be seperated from the rest of society as long as they make the choice to use. My definition of dangerous in this case would be anyone under the influence.

All I was trying to say is look out...the problem is only going to get worse as funding (either by insurance or government) is being cut everyday. Leaving the common person in this situation (thru bad decisions of their own) to turn to programs that are "free" like AA and NA which actually teach them that they are "diseased". The entire system needs overhauled. Teach them to learn new behavior and the Too many aynonmous groups are excuses for poor learned behavior. A perfect example is the over-eaters anonymous...I mean come on....it comes down to learning how to shut your pie hole and learn a new lifestyle.
Maybe I misunderstood your post???

If I misunderstood your position, I apologize. It is not always easy to understand full meaning from written text. I, perhaps, added a connotation that was not there.

So I now understand we are on the same page. I, as well, do not see any easy answers to addiction... except to never start. This is, of course, why drugs must be kept illegal.

There are some, however, that don't believe that drugs are inherently harmful...

To get back on point, prisons are SUPPOSED to be bad. This is akin to my children complaining because their punishments make them feel bad.

That is the intention.

The answer to the people who start is to teach them that it IS LEARNED and that they are NOT born that way. Most of the time, the first encounter into the system for them is court ordered AA programs where they learn they are diseased. How about we mandate a behavior modification class that teaches them to make correct choices. Remove the disease theory all together. They made a CHOICE to use.

Make programs available to teach them new lifestyles and by all means get the insurance companies involved. Which is the other part I don't understand as the programs that are the most successful are the most cost effective. That is, at minimal 1/3 less the cost of conventional treatment centers.

The whole damn thing just makes me sad.

Maybe we should spin some of this off into a new thread.

Removing the disease theory ignores both psychological research and medical science. It would be counterproductive to successful recovery. There is really no question but that some people are genetically predisposed to addiction. You couldn't force me to become an alcoholic - it's not because I have exceptional willpower, but is because it doesn't do much for me. Try explaining that to an alcoholic.

If an addict is ready for recovery, pretty much any treatment is "cost-effective" as compared to the alternative. If an addict is not ready to get sober, most of the time that addict won't respond to treatment. An AA member put it like this, "If you're not ready for recovery and go to a meeting, I can't say anything right. If you're ready, I can't say anything wrong."

Many addicts can't just be dropped off at an AA meeting, or aren't ready for even intensive outpatient treatment. Many (including, and in some cases especially, alcoholics) need a medically supervised detox. Then they need an extended period of time in a residential treatment program (which does not have to be prohibitively expensive, but isn't going to be cheap) to establish some sobriety, and then will need to live in sober housing (3/4-way or 1/2-way houses) as they continue to work toward sobriety.

With many addicts, it's a good 3-6 months before their brain chemistry normalizes, and in some cases it can be longer. (The AA suggestion for newly sober addicts to do "90 in 90" - ninety meetings in ninety days - was based on experience, not brain chemistry research, but it is consistent with what medical science now tells us.) There are medications to help with certain addictions, particularly alcoholism and opiate/opioid addiction, but they require medical supervision and the best or most promising medications remain under patent (i.e., they cost a lot).

Relapse is a natural part of recovery, and many addicts relapse a number of times before they get back on track (or give up trying to maintain sobriety).