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How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe

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  • 06-02-2020, 03:59 PM
    healthhelp
    How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    My question involves collection proceedings in the State of: California

    I am a medical provider. I had left my previous employer unexpectedly and was not able to sign off on some patient notes. Initially, they demanded I sign a wet signature, but in the end, they said didn't need it, and are letting it slide as long as I do something else for them, that I have no obligation to do. With the riots and covid-19 going on, I haven't responded to them, and especially since I don't need to do anything for them. Now, they "changed their mind" and want me to pay for the fees for not providing a wet signature, or they're going to take "legal action." They sent me an attachment. It was for therapy services, from a different provider, for a different medical license than mine, for dates 2 months after I had left the company. Additionally, the invoice they're demanding me to pay them back, is for a different company than the company I was being paid by, and worked for. They don't even show proof to me that they paid out, but just send me an invoice.

    I obviously don't owe them anything. This whole situation from start to now has been complicated and bizarre. I don't know how to respond to them. Do I email back? Do I certify mail something? Should I explain to them why I don't owe them anything? I'd rather not go through small claims or even get an attorney (they can't afford one anyways). I don't want to tell them too much to have them prepare if they decide to go through legal action, but they have no ground to stand on. I feel I should respond to set the record straight, and avoid any future claims that I wasn't responsive or cooperative. I just don't know what's the proper way to tell them "No."

    Thank you for any help.
  • 06-02-2020, 04:04 PM
    llworking
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting healthhelp
    View Post
    My question involves collection proceedings in the State of: California

    I am a medical provider. I had left my previous employer unexpectedly and was not able to sign off on some patient notes. Initially, they demanded I sign a wet signature, but in the end, they said didn't need it, and are letting it slide as long as I do something else for them, that I have no obligation to do. With the riots and covid-19 going on, I haven't responded to them, and especially since I don't need to do anything for them. Now, they "changed their mind" and want me to pay for the fees for not providing a wet signature, or they're going to take "legal action." They sent me an attachment. It was for therapy services, from a different provider, for a different medical license than mine, for dates 2 months after I had left the company. Additionally, the invoice they're demanding me to pay them back, is for a different company than the company I was being paid by, and worked for. They don't even show proof to me that they paid out, but just send me an invoice.

    I obviously don't owe them anything. This whole situation from start to now has been complicated and bizarre. I don't know how to respond to them. Do I email back? Do I certify mail something? Should I explain to them why I don't owe them anything? I'd rather not go through small claims or even get an attorney (they can't afford one anyways). I don't want to tell them too much to have them prepare if they decide to go through legal action, but they have no ground to stand on. I feel I should respond to set the record straight, and avoid any future claims that I wasn't responsive or cooperative. I just don't know what's the proper way to tell them "No."

    Thank you for any help.

    In my opinion you should just ignore them.
  • 06-02-2020, 04:09 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Does this thread have anything to do with your previous thread?

    https://www.expertlaw.com/forums/sho...t=#post1135907

    If it does:

    1 - You should have just added to it.

    2 - With all the BS you are getting from your former employer I suggest you either ignore him completely or get a lawyer to get him off your back.
  • 06-02-2020, 04:10 PM
    healthhelp
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    In my opinion you should just ignore them.

    If I ignore them, I imagine there are two choices: they drop it, or take me to small claims court. I'd like to avoid small claims court or any other legal action. Not because I don't owe them anything or because I'm wrong, because it's a waste of my time, and potentially, finances. I want them to know their requests are ridiculous and point them out, and have them stop contacting me.

    Quote:

    Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    Does this thread have anything to do with your previous thread?

    https://www.expertlaw.com/forums/sho...t=#post1135907

    If it does:

    1 - You should have just added to it.

    2 - With all the BS you are getting from your former employer I suggest you either ignore him completely or get a lawyer to get him off your back.

    1. Yes it has to do with it. It doesn't stop. They keep changing their minds, adding a new threat, bring up a different point. Which is why I keep asking different, but same questions, because it's the same case, just new things keep coming up.

    2. If I ignore them, will it make me "look bad" if they decide to proceed with small claims? I get a sense I need to at least set the record straight and have a paper trail.
  • 06-02-2020, 05:09 PM
    Harold99
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting healthhelp
    View Post
    If I ignore them, I imagine there are two choices: they drop it, or take me to small claims court. I'd like to avoid small claims court or any other legal action. Not because I don't owe them anything or because I'm wrong, because it's a waste of my time, and potentially, finances. I want them to know their requests are ridiculous and point them out, and have them stop contacting me.



    1. Yes it has to do with it. It doesn't stop. They keep changing their minds, adding a new threat, bring up a different point. Which is why I keep asking different, but same questions, because it's the same case, just new things keep coming up.

    2. If I ignore them, will it make me "look bad" if they decide to proceed with small claims? I get a sense I need to at least set the record straight and have a paper trail.

    You are absolutely correct. Ignoring them is the wrong response. The first thing a judge will ask either party is "did you make an attempt to settle this?" And, when you say "they tried to contact me numerous times but I ignored them," you will be in a bad position.

    Try your best to create a paper trail that fully explains your position and presents your evidence to them. After that, you will be ready for small claims, if it goes that far.
  • 06-02-2020, 09:56 PM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    You are absolutely correct. Ignoring them is the wrong response. The first thing a judge will ask either party is "did you make an attempt to settle this?" And, when you say "they tried to contact me numerous times but I ignored them," you will be in a bad position.

    Maybe in small claims court the judge would ask that question, but even then there is no obligation for the OP to try settling anything if he doesn't owe it so the judge shouldn't hold that against the OP. If the matter goes to superior court, the judge won't ask that question as it isn't relevant to anything and the jury certainly wouldn't hear about it. That said, there is likely no harm in responding to the company to say that nothing is owed.
  • 06-03-2020, 01:37 AM
    Harold99
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    Maybe in small claims court the judge would ask that question, but even then there is no obligation for the OP to try settling anything if he doesn't owe it so the judge shouldn't hold that against the OP. If the matter goes to superior court, the judge won't ask that question as it isn't relevant to anything and the jury certainly wouldn't hear about it. That said, there is likely no harm in responding to the company to say that nothing is owed.

    There's absolutely an obligation to make an attempt to settle it before it is heard at trial. Have you ever sued someone in small claims court before? Well, I have, three times in two different courthouses. Each time the judge requires all parties to go outside the courtroom and make one last attempt at settling it before it can be heard in trial.

    It is very unlikely that it will be heard in superior court because the OP said it qualifies for small claims court and it's just for therapy. Also, he/she said the other party likely cannot afford attorney costs. Further, in superior court, where I just sued someone, they require an MSC (mandatory settlement conference) before the case is heard in trial. So I don't know how an attorney such as yourself cannot be aware of these court protocols.

    What do you mean "there is no obligation for the OP to try settling anything if he doesn't owe it." Huh? That is silly because each party prior to trial believes they "do not owe anything." Have you ever gone to trial knowing that you would lose? Probably not. Besides, if the OP has sufficient evidence that he does not owe it, then he should supply it to the other party to put it to rest...because who wants to be dragged into court to supply it?
  • 06-03-2020, 04:19 AM
    llworking
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    There's absolutely an obligation to make an attempt to settle it before it is heard at trial. Have you ever sued someone in small claims court before? Well, I have, three times in two different courthouses. Each time the judge requires all parties to go outside the courtroom and make one last attempt at settling it before it can be heard in trial.

    It is very unlikely that it will be heard in superior court because the OP said it qualifies for small claims court and it's just for therapy. Also, he/she said the other party likely cannot afford attorney costs. Further, in superior court, where I just sued someone, they require an MSC (mandatory settlement conference) before the case is heard in trial. So I don't know how an attorney such as yourself cannot be aware of these court protocols.

    What do you mean "there is no obligation for the OP to try settling anything if he doesn't owe it." Huh? That is silly because each party prior to trial believes they "do not owe anything." Have you ever gone to trial knowing that you would lose? Probably not. Besides, if the OP has sufficient evidence that he does not owe it, then he should supply it to the other party to put it to rest...because who wants to be dragged into court to supply it?

    Just because a judge gives the parties one more opportunity to settle before hearing the case does not mean that someone is required to try to settle a case. TM has probably litigated thousands more cases than you have.

    This is not a case of "sufficient evidence" either. The people making claims against the OP are making literally ridiculous claims where no evidence really exists at all.
  • 06-03-2020, 08:47 AM
    Harold99
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    Just because a judge gives the parties one more opportunity to settle before hearing the case does not mean that someone is required to try to settle a case. TM has probably litigated thousands more cases than you have.

    I do not care how many cases he has tried, he should know that both parties are REQUIRED to make an attempt to settle a case in either courtroom before it is tried. Oh, and I highly doubt he has tried thousands of cases.

    You can choose to believe someone because of their title or occupation but it doesn't take a physicist to know the effects of gravity. Also, attorneys can be the last to believe because they often argue out of sport with no regard for right or wrong.

    Quote:

    This is not a case of "sufficient evidence" either. The people making claims against the OP are making literally ridiculous claims where no evidence really exists at all.
    Every case is determined by "evidence," and the one with more "sufficient evidence" usually wins. Also, how can you say the other side is 'ridiculous' when you haven't seen their evidence? You are beginning to sound like a biased juror who knows the verdict before hearing the case.

    So your advice is also to ignore them and only offer your evidence in a courtroom? Really? This thing could be settled with one manila envelope, but you would not advise doing it that way?
  • 06-03-2020, 08:56 AM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    I do not care how many cases he has tried, he should know that both parties are REQUIRED to make an attempt to settle a case in either courtroom before it is tried.

    You do realize that the demand by the entity is owed the debt and the refusal by the debtor is an attempt to settle the case? Or do you think there is some requirement that the plaintiff offer to be paid less than they are owned or for the defendant to pay a lesser amount than is owed even if they think they owe nothing?
  • 06-03-2020, 09:21 AM
    pg1067
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting healthhelp
    View Post
    Do I email back? Do I certify mail something? Should I explain to them why I don't owe them anything?

    You're free to communicate with your former employer in any way you think is appropriate, but there's no reason whatsoever to use certified mail.

    Beyond that, it's not entirely clear what's being requested/demanded from you or on what legal or factual basis it is being requested/demanded.

    Also, if the other party likely cannot afford an attorney, then you hiring one would put you in a tremendously advantageous position.

    Quote:

    Quoting healthhelp
    View Post
    If I ignore them, I imagine there are two choices: they drop it, or take me to small claims court.

    Those same two outcomes may result if you engage, so there's not much difference. The other possible outcome if you engage will be that you'll waste your time, which is something you said you'd rather not do.


    Quote:

    Quoting healthhelp
    View Post
    I'd like to avoid small claims court or any other legal action. Not because I don't owe them anything or because I'm wrong, because it's a waste of my time, and potentially, finances.

    Small claims court might waste a few hours of your time, but it will waste none of your finances (other than some gas money) if you win.


    Quote:

    Quoting healthhelp
    View Post
    I want them to know their requests are ridiculous and point them out, and have them stop contacting me.

    Well, then there you go.


    Quote:

    Quoting healthhelp
    View Post
    If I ignore them, will it make me "look bad" if they decide to proceed with small claims?

    It will be of little, if any, relevance.

    Quote:

    Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    You do realize that. . . .

    No, "Harold99" does not realize anything logical or sensible. Why in the name of all that is holy do you y'all continue to clutter up thread after thread bickering with such a person?
  • 06-03-2020, 10:18 AM
    Harold99
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting pg1067
    View Post
    No, "Harold99" does not realize anything logical or sensible.

    I understand what I have witnessed in courtrooms...a place where you and your buddies have likely never been.

    Funny, this comes from a guy who starts every post with "I don't understand your question." So I have to ask, is English your first language?

    BTW - KIA started this club but didn't empty his trash before he left.
  • 06-03-2020, 11:50 AM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    There's absolutely an obligation to make an attempt to settle it before it is heard at trial. Have you ever sued someone in small claims court before? Well, I have, three times in two different courthouses. Each time the judge requires all parties to go outside the courtroom and make one last attempt at settling it before it can be heard in trial.

    Once the lawsuit is filed, sure, judges often try to get the parties to settle it if they can. But there is no general requirement that a defendant reply to the plaintiff's demand before the lawsuit is filed. In some small claims courts it's important for the plaintiff to send a demand prior to filing a lawsuit, and that may be what you had in mind. But bear in mind here that the OP isn't the one making the demand.

    Quote:

    Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    Further, in superior court, where I just sued someone, they require an MSC (mandatory settlement conference) before the case is heard in trial. So I don't know how an attorney such as yourself cannot be aware of these court protocols.

    I am aware of it. But again, there is no responsibility for the defendant to respond before being served the complaint. He can ignore the former employer's out of court demands if he wishes and it won't hurt him. Of course after he is served the complaint he must respond and should the judge order a settlement conference, which is common, he'd need to at least participate in the conference. He need not agree to anything in that conference, however.

    Quote:

    Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    Have you ever gone to trial knowing that you would lose? Probably not.

    Yes, actually. Because the other side would not settle for what was offered, and I believed that while we would lose, the judgment would be less than what government was demanding. And, I was correct. So while we "lost" in the sense that the court found for the government, I saved my client a whole lot of money by getting a decision for much less than what the government wanted.

    Quote:

    Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    Besides, if the OP has sufficient evidence that he does not owe it, then he should supply it to the other party to put it to rest...because who wants to be dragged into court to supply it?

    Like I said before, there is likely no harm in the OP trying to resolve it before a lawsuit is filed. He might get it resolved. My only point here is that the court isn't going to ding him, as the defendant, for failing to respond to the plaintiff's demands prior to the lawsuit being filed. He has no legal obligation to respond to those attempts by the former employer.
  • 06-03-2020, 01:21 PM
    Harold99
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    Once the lawsuit is filed, sure, judges often try to get the parties to settle it if they can. But there is no general requirement that a defendant reply to the plaintiff's demand before the lawsuit is filed. In some small claims courts it's important for the plaintiff to send a demand prior to filing a lawsuit, and that may be what you had in mind. But bear in mind here that the OP isn't the one making the demand.

    Though the small claims paperwork may require that a demand letter be served prior to filing the lawsuit, that is not what I had in mind. I said that the judge, prior to the actual trial, will require both parties go out into the hall and try to settle it.

    Quote:

    I am aware of it. But again, there is no responsibility for the defendant to respond before being served the complaint. He can ignore the former employer's out of court demands if he wishes and it won't hurt him. Of course after he is served the complaint he must respond and should the judge order a settlement conference, which is common, he'd need to at least participate in the conference. He need not agree to anything in that conference, however.
    If a small claims lawsuit is pending, as the OP is concerned with, the right advice IMO would be to at least communicate with the (would be) plaintiff. I simply said that "ignoring them or hiring a lawyer" is very poor advice.

    Quote:

    Yes, actually. Because the other side would not settle for what was offered, and I believed that while we would lose, the judgment would be less than what government was demanding. And, I was correct. So while we "lost" in the sense that the court found for the government, I saved my client a whole lot of money by getting a decision for much less than what the government wanted.
    Cutting a loss in half is not "losing."
  • 06-03-2020, 03:24 PM
    llworking
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    Though the small claims paperwork may require that a demand letter be served prior to filing the lawsuit, that is not what I had in mind. I said that the judge, prior to the actual trial, will require both parties go out into the hall and try to settle it.

    Your small claims court judge, in your area, does that. The judge in my small claims court does not, and not in any other small claims court in my county either. So, unless you have been in the majority of small claims courts, in the majority of counties, in the majority of states, you cannot make that claim.


    Quote:

    If a small claims lawsuit is pending, as the OP is concerned with, the right advice IMO would be to at least communicate with the (would be) plaintiff. I simply said that "ignoring them or hiring a lawyer" is very poor advice.
    Many people disagree with you about that. Sometimes it is better not to engage in the nonsense in the first place. Particularly when people are making ridiculous demands.



    Quote:

    Cutting a loss in half is not "losing."
    It is technically losing, but I agree that for all practical purposes it is not.
  • 06-03-2020, 03:36 PM
    Harold99
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    Your small claims court judge, in your area, does that. The judge in my small claims court does not, and not in any other small claims court in my county either. So, unless you have been in the majority of small claims courts, in the majority of counties, in the majority of states, you cannot make that claim.

    Which applies to your advice and observations too.

    Quote:

    Many people[here] disagree with you about that. Sometimes it is better not to engage in the nonsense in the first place. Particularly when people are making ridiculous demands.
    Ya, sometimes. But sorry, I am not as afraid of folks as 'many people' here are.

    Quote:

    It is technically losing, but I agree that for all practical purposes it is not.
    Not it isn't if, say for example, you asked the IRS to reduce a tax bill by 50% and they refused, but after trial the court orders that reduction. So it is technically and practically a win.
  • 06-03-2020, 03:38 PM
    PayrolGuy
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    But sorry, I am not as afraid of folks as 'many people' here are.

    Maybe you should be and you wouldn't spend so much time in court losing.
  • 06-03-2020, 03:53 PM
    Harold99
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    Maybe you should be and you wouldn't spend so much time in court losing.

    You need to go outside and get some fresh air.

    I'm heading out to ride about 50 miles with about 3,000' of climbing. I'll dedicate 10 miles to you since it sounds like you haven't gotten any exercise in a long time. :)
  • 06-04-2020, 02:03 PM
    healthhelp
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Thank you for your replies.

    After consideration, I decided to respond to them and tell them I don’t need to do anything for them, nor do I need to be corresponding to the email writer as she has no legal ties to me (she is one the investors, but on no documents).

    I also thought it would be a good opportunity to point out the reasons why I don’t need to communicate with them anymore or do anything for them, and to remind them of the illegal things they have done and possibly are doing since I left. I wrote if they don’t stop harassing me, I also can take legal actions for their harassment, extortion, and not abiding by labor laws during my employment.

    I’m not sure if I should be saying all this and show my cards in the case they decide to hire an attorney because I made them mad. Or does it not matter because if I want to get legal representation, we would be presenting it to them anyways?

    My hope is to scare them off and just end it. But by adding that last bit, would I be doing the same thing as they are...extorting them?
  • 06-04-2020, 03:50 PM
    Taxing Matters
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting healthhelp
    View Post
    My hope is to scare them off and just end it. But by adding that last bit, would I be doing the same thing as they are...extorting them?

    I don't see that you committed extortion from your description, but then I didn't see exactly what you wrote, either. While responding to them to say that you owe them nothing is fine (though I would have just ignored them until they actually sued, which they might never do), going beyond that to assert to one of the company investors that the company violated the law risks a potential action for defamation and threatening the company with legal action for matters unrelated to the demand the company has made can often be counter productive. If you want them to just go away, angering them over unrelated matters is, in my experience, not helpful.
  • 06-04-2020, 10:00 PM
    llworking
    Re: How to Respond to a Demand for Payment Email I Don't Owe
    Quote:

    Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    I don't see that you committed extortion from your description, but then I didn't see exactly what you wrote, either. While responding to them to say that you owe them nothing is fine (though I would have just ignored them until they actually sued, which they might never do), going beyond that to assert to one of the company investors that the company violated the law risks a potential action for defamation and threatening the company with legal action for matters unrelated to the demand the company has made can often be counter productive. If you want them to just go away, angering them over unrelated matters is, in my experience, not helpful.

    Ditto...it would be far more sensible to ignore them. However, if you cannot seem to manage that then having an attorney draft a response would be far more sensible than doing it yourself.
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