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On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out

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  • 02-17-2020, 07:31 PM
    Arenales
    On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    My question involves real estate located in the State of: Ohio

    My partner and I have been together for 20 years. We were never officially married even after the Supreme Court ruling of 2014 that declared same-sex marriage to be legal in all states. In 2005, we did the closest thing we could do to be a married couple at that time. We went to an attorney and we had our power of attorney and living wills listing each other as having or receiving everything and making all decisions should something happen to one of us. When we bought our house 16 years ago, the deed was put in both of our names, but my name was not and has never been on the mortgage.

    My partner has decided to end our relationship and has told me that I need to move out of our house. My partner said they will keep paying the mortgage even without without my financial help and told me to find somewhere else to reside.

    Do I have any rights to this home of 16 years? Can I just be told to move out and now have to find a new place to call home?

    Thank you for reading this.
  • 02-17-2020, 08:02 PM
    bcr229
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    The mortgage is irrelevant. If you are both on the deed then you and he own the house together, so you and he both have the right to live there. If he wants you off the deed, he can buy you out of your share of the equity.

    Now, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't make plans to move out, especially if you think your safety is at risk.

    Did you do a joint & survivorship deed? If so, should one of you die the other gets the house, it's not part of the probate estate.
  • 02-17-2020, 08:11 PM
    Arenales
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    Yes, we did do a joint and survivorship deed. I do feel safe in my home. I just don’t feel I should have to move anywhere until I am ready and have more figured out on what it is I am going to do. I also feel I shouldn’t just have to walk away from my home
  • 02-17-2020, 08:24 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    Even if you decide not to live there anymore, you won't be walking away from it. You're on the deed, you own it. You'll always own it until the day you sign away that ownership. You're partner will need your signature to sell the house. That means you have to approve the sale and sign the buyer's purchase contract. That doesn't end it. There is still the escrow. During escrow you'll sign instructions to the escrow company as to how the proceeds are to be paid. The presumption is one check with both your names on it unless you instruct the escrow company otherwise. That gives you a great deal of control over the sale and will allow you to negotiate your percentage of the proceeds before the sale closes.

    After 16 years you probably have significant equity in the home, enough so that one of you can buy the other out by refinancing. As long as there is no risk of domestic violence there's no reason you shouldn't stay put while you negotiate a buyout. Decide which is more important to you, the house or the money. Then you can refuse to leave until it happens if that's what you want to do.

    The longer it takes to either sell or buy one of you out, the more the house will be worth and the more money you'll get.

    Bottom line it's your house. You don't have to leave.
  • 02-17-2020, 11:30 PM
    latigo
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    Quote:

    Quoting Arenales
    View Post
    My question involves real estate located in the State of: Ohio

    My partner and I have been together for 20 years. We were never officially married even after the Supreme Court ruling of 2014 that declared same-sex marriage to be legal in all states. In 2005, we did the closest thing we could do to be a married couple at that time. We went to an attorney and we had our power of attorney and living wills listing each other as having or receiving everything and making all decisions should something happen to one of us. When we bought our house 16 years ago, the deed was put in both of our names, but my name was not and has never been on the mortgage.

    My partner has decided to end our relationship and has told me that I need to move out of our house. My partner said they will keep paying the mortgage even without without my financial help and told me to find somewhere else to reside.

    Do I have any rights to this home of 16 years? Can I just be told to move out and now have to find a new place to call home?

    Thank you for reading this.

    And I will thank you to read this, please.

    Someone needs to waive a red flag in your face! Why? Because your status as an owner of the property (the deed was put in both of our names) is made highly problematical by your following statement: my name was not and has never been on the mortgage! Something is terribly awry here. To explain:

    Assuming that the mortgage loan was used to purchase the property as opposed to an assumption of an existing mortgage THEN. . .

    The mortgagee bank or lender would NOT have loaned the purchase money UNLESS all the then to be deeded/record owners of the property were signatory to the mortgage note! The reason is that the lender would not be adequately secured in the event of default and the need to foreclose. And rest assured that commercial lenders do not make the mistake of issuing mortgage loans secured by only a partial ownership in the mortgaged property.

    Other elements of this story seem inconsistent with your assertion of joint ownership such as your estranged partner's sudden inexplicable possessive attitude and his announced willingness to fully assume the mortgage note. It would be judicious of you to consult with an attorney.
  • 02-18-2020, 03:51 AM
    Arenales
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    My story is very consistent. My name is on the deed. When we got he house, we had my partner purchase the property and then I was added right away with a quitclaim deed.

    Why a red flag?

    What is awry?

    My name is on the deed just as my partner’s and it a joint and survivorship deed. I have never been on the mortgage yet have always contributed to it.

    As far as other elements to the story you feel are inconsistent, well, I am sorry but I am giving you facts. Thank you.
  • 02-18-2020, 08:29 AM
    adjusterjack
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    Quote:

    Quoting Arenales
    View Post
    My story is very consistent. My name is on the deed. When we got he house, we had my partner purchase the property and then I was added right away with a quitclaim deed.

    That makes sense. Explains why partner is the only one on the mortgage. But it was 16 years ago. Wouldn't hurt to be a little cautious. I suggest you get on to your county recorder of deeds website and look up the two deeds to the property: the first when partner bought the house and the second when the quitclaim deed was done. Even if you have a copy of the quitclaim deed, you need to make sure it was properly recorded.

    Would you mind telling why you weren't on the mortgage when the house was bought? Did you have a credit issue? Do you have a credit issue now? That will have a bearing on who buys who out.
  • 02-18-2020, 12:52 PM
    latigo
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    Then why this obvious anomaly in your original post?

    "When WE bought OUR house 16 years ago, THE DEED WAS PUT IN BOTH OF OUR NAMES."

    Did you suddenly remember the subsequent quitclaim deed transaction? Or is it more likely that you conveniently misrepresent the nature of the acquisition of the property to hide the fact that the mortgagee would not have loaned the purchase money with you on the title?

    Fini!
  • 02-18-2020, 01:29 PM
    Arenales
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    I was not on the mortgage because I was quite young (22) and we were worried that it would not be approved. We were told that it would be easier for us this way. I did not have any credit issues. My credit was and is good with no major problems or any issues

    Quote:

    Quoting latigo
    View Post
    Did you suddenly remember the subsequent quitclaim deed transaction? Or is it more likely that you conveniently misrepresent the nature of the acquisition of the property to hide the fact that the mortgagee would not have loaned the purchase money with you on the title?

    Fini!

    There is no misrepresentation. Thank you for your help and good day to you
  • 02-18-2020, 02:44 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    Quote:

    Quoting latigo
    View Post
    Then why this obvious anomaly in your original post?

    "When WE bought OUR house 16 years ago, THE DEED WAS PUT IN BOTH OF OUR NAMES."

    Did you suddenly remember the subsequent quitclaim deed transaction? Or is it more likely that you conveniently misrepresent the nature of the acquisition of the property to hide the fact that the mortgagee would not have loaned the purchase money with you on the title?

    Fini!

    Knock it off Latigo. Not everybody is as erudite as you. Sometimes people need a little help getting all the facts out. Your nastiness doesn't do you credit.

    Quote:

    Quoting Arenales
    View Post
    I was not on the mortgage because I was quite young (22) and we were worried that it would not be approved. We were told that it would be easier for us this way. I did not have any credit issues. My credit was and is good with no major problems or any issues

    This is common with mortgage brokers and lenders who have a stake in getting the loan written.

    At this point you might be on equal footing to qualify for a mortgage. You'll just have to decide if it makes financial sense to you to go for your house and get bought out and buy yourself something else.

    I would still look up the deed records.
  • 02-19-2020, 09:38 AM
    pg1067
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    Quote:

    Quoting Arenales
    View Post
    My partner has decided to end our relationship and has told me that I need to move out of our house.

    And what is your "partner's" (i.e., boyfriend's or girlfriend's) rationale as to why you "need to move"?


    Quote:

    Quoting Arenales
    View Post
    My partner said they will keep paying the mortgage even without without my financial help and told me to find somewhere else to reside.

    Who are "they," and why would anyone other than you and your boy/girlfriend pay the mortgage?


    Quote:

    Quoting Arenales
    View Post
    Do I have any rights to this home of 16 years?

    Of course you do. You own it the same as your boy/girlfriend.


    Quote:

    Quoting Arenales
    View Post
    Can I just be told to move out and now have to find a new place to call home?

    Anyone "can be told" anything. I would hope it goes without saying that, just because someone tells you something doesn't make it true.


    All that said: Do you really want to continue living with your now ex-boy/girlfriend? There are two ways that this ends. First, you can negotiate for your boy/girlfriend to buy out your interest in the property. You're in an advantageous situation since you're not on the mortgage, so it would be far more logical for him/her to buy you out than for you to buy out him/her (although that's an option, but he/she should insist than you refinance the mortgage in your name). Second, one of you can sue the other for something called partition, which is essentially a court-ordered sale of the property. Such things are messy and expensive and rarely result in a sale for fair market value.

    Quote:

    Quoting Arenales
    View Post
    When we got he house, we had my partner purchase the property and then I was added right away with a quitclaim deed.

    That's potentially a problem (although it obviously hasn't been for the past decade and a half). First, transferring title may very well constitute default under the mortgage. If that's the case, then the lender could foreclose at any time even if all payments have been made. Second, it smacks of mortgage fraud.
  • 02-19-2020, 06:42 PM
    Arenales
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    Quote:

    Quoting pg1067
    View Post
    And what is your "partner's" (i.e., boyfriend's or girlfriend's) rationale as to why you "need to move"?

    My partner is claiming that people change and would like to move on and live a new life without me. My partner has referenced fears of infidelity, falling out of love with me, and wanting to be alone and live a new and separate life from me. I fear it is a midlife crisis.



    Quote:

    Who are "they," and why would anyone other than you and your boy/girlfriend pay the mortgage?
    I was referring to my partner when using the neutral pronoun they. My partner has always sent one check in for the mortgage each month and I have always written a check for one half of the mortgage to my partner.


    Quote:

    All that said: Do you really want to continue living with your now ex-boy/girlfriend? There are two ways that this ends. First, you can negotiate for your boy/girlfriend to buy out your interest in the property. You're in an advantageous situation since you're not on the Mortgage, so it would be far more logical for him/her to buy you out than for you to buy out him/her (although that's an option, but he/she should insist than you refinance the mortgage in your name). Second, one of you can sue the other for something called partition, which is essentially a court-ordered sale of the property. Such things are messy and expensive and rarely result in a sale for fair market value.
    After 20 years of being together, I am uncertain as to what I want. I really am hoping my partner comes back down to earth and snaps out of this phase or stage of life. At the very least I do not wish to rush anything. I do not know anywhere near the information I should know about finances and the property information and that is my fault. I did go and look and I am listed on the deed for the house filed with the County Auditor. It is a joint and survivorship type deed. I just want to know my rights and entitlements.

    I have put a lot into this house as well throughout the years; however, I am almost certain that there is little to no equity. I know cannot afford the house payment on my own but my partner just might be able to. If there is no equity, is there anything to be bought out of?
  • 02-19-2020, 08:11 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    Quote:

    I just want to know my rights and entitlements.
    That's easy. You own the house just as much as your partner does. You have just as much right to live there as your partner does. You can be roommates for a while. There's no hurry.

    You're entitled to half the proceeds if the house gets sold. You are entitled to half the equity if it doesn't.

    Quote:

    I am almost certain that there is little to no equity.
    After 16 years there has to be substantial equity unless your partner has been borrowing against it.

    What was the purchase price?
    What was the amount of the loan?
    What was the interest rate?
    With those figures you can figure out what the approximate loan balance is.

    If you don't know them, you might be able to find the recorded documents that might give you a hint.

    If not, how about sneaking around your partner's papers while your partner isn't at home.

    Google your address and several real estate websites come up with approximate market values of your home as well as nearby sales of comparable homes in the area. Zillow and Redfin are two that come to mind.

    You take the current market value and you subtract the loan balance and that gives you the equity.

    If the house was bought around 2004 then the value probably took a dive during the real estate crisis of about 2006. But real estate had rebounded quite a bit since the recovery.

    Quote:

    I know cannot afford the house payment on my own but my partner just might be able to.
    Then it's probably best for you if you get cashed out by your partner and be on your way. Just don't leave for promises. No dough, no go. :friendly_wink:
  • 02-19-2020, 09:41 PM
    bcr229
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    Quote:

    Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    After 16 years there has to be substantial equity unless your partner has been borrowing against it.

    Can one owner refinance or take out a HELOC/second mortgage/etc. without the signature of the other owner if the house is jointly owned though?
  • 02-19-2020, 09:55 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    Quote:

    Quoting bcr229
    View Post
    Can one owner refinance or take out a HELOC/second mortgage/etc. without the signature of the other owner if the house is jointly owned though?

    Could happen. Depends on the lender but, generally, a lender would probably require that both owners be obligated on the loan.
  • 02-20-2020, 11:32 AM
    pg1067
    Re: On Deed, but Told I Had to Move Out
    Quote:

    Quoting Arenales
    View Post
    My partner is claiming that people change and would like to move on and live a new life without me. My partner has referenced fears of infidelity, falling out of love with me, and wanting to be alone and live a new and separate life from me. I fear it is a midlife crisis.

    That's a great reason for ending a relationship, but it doesn't answer the question about his/her rationale why you should move out (as opposed to him/her moving out or both of you moving and selling the place).


    Quote:

    Quoting Arenales
    View Post
    I was referring to my partner when using the neutral pronoun they.

    While "they" is, indeed, neutral, it's plural, so it's confusing to use it to refer to a single person.


    Quote:

    Quoting Arenales
    View Post
    After 20 years of being together, I am uncertain as to what I want. I really am hoping my partner comes back down to earth and snaps out of this phase or stage of life. At the very least I do not wish to rush anything. I do not know anywhere near the information I should know about finances and the property information and that is my fault. I did go and look and I am listed on the deed for the house filed with the County Auditor. It is a joint and survivorship type deed. I just want to know my rights and entitlements.

    Creating a list of "rights and entitlements" would serve no useful purpose, but I hope it's clear that you're not obligated to move out just because your boy/girlfriend wants you to do so.


    Quote:

    Quoting Arenales
    View Post
    I have put a lot into this house as well throughout the years; however, I am almost certain that there is little to no equity. I know cannot afford the house payment on my own but my partner just might be able to. If there is no equity, is there anything to be bought out of?

    If, in fact, there's no equity (and I agree that would be quite surprising after a decade and a half), then the easiest and best thing for you to do (since you're not obligated on the mortgage) might be to deed your interest to your ex-boy/girlfriend and walk away clean from the situation.
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