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How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justice
My question involves civil rights in the State of: California.
How can I be "made Whole" after the dismissal of an arrest in the interest of justice, which resulted in economic and property losses?
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
It depends on the totality of the circumstances which we don't have. If you have used your real name as your username, I would counsel you not to share them. You would be better served consulting a few attorneys to see if you have any grounds for legal action as a result of whatever happened.
The truth is you will never really be "whole" again. It's highly unlikely, absent egregious conduct by law enforcement or the prosecutor, that you will ever recover any and all losses that may have occurred. Then there are the mental losses from stress, etc... dealing with the issue.
Note that a dismissal in the interest of justice doesn't necessarily mean there was a problem with how the case was handled. It can be something as simple as "Yeah, he broke the law but it's not worth going to trial".
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
Free9man: remove the space between the first and last name, reduce to all lower case and check the post hx.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
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cbg
Free9man: remove the space between the first and last name, reduce to all lower case and check the post hx.
I thought the name looked familar and was wondering why it was the first post.
I haven't gone through all of it but nothing looks germane to the inquiry, unless it's just a general hypothetical. It's also a pretty old poster.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
...with a pretty weird reputation. He has one agenda and no matter how far removed it may seem now, that agenda will rear its head eventually.
Proceed at your own peril.
I am now going out to buy the popcorn.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
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cbg
I am now going out to buy the popcorn.
Oh, I remember him well. Just been going back through the px hx so I could use some popcorn too. Maybe a cold drink.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
You're on. You like butter and salt on yours or just plain? What do you want to drink?
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
Why do you explain what "dismissal of arrest" means and tell us a bit about what happened?
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
Just because you are found innocent doesn't entitle you to damages. Damages only result when there was some egregious failure in the arrest process, such as a total lack of probable cause. Arrests pursuant to a warrant almost never qualify unless there is intentionally false statements made to support the application.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
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free9man
It depends on the totality of the circumstances which we don't have. If you have used your real name as your username, I would counsel you not to share them. You would be better served consulting a few attorneys to see if you have any grounds for legal action as a result of whatever happened.
The truth is you will never really be "whole" again. It's highly unlikely, absent egregious conduct by law enforcement or the prosecutor, that you will ever recover any and all losses that may have occurred. Then there are the mental losses from stress, etc... dealing with the issue.
Note that a dismissal in the interest of justice doesn't necessarily mean there was a problem with how the case was handled. It can be something as simple as "Yeah, he broke the law but it's not worth going to trial".
I am not sure I understand your point of view. No jury proclaimed my guilt. That means, an innocent person suffered economic and property damage and would like to be, "made whole".
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
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Daniel Palos
I am not sure I understand your point of view. No jury proclaimed my guilt. That means, an innocent person suffered economic and property damage and would like to be, "made whole".
There is no provision in the law for you to be "made whole" by virtues of being acquitted in a court of law, or if the case was dropped for whatever reason. If there was some form of egregious conduct committed by someone, you can hire an attorney to sue them. But, reasonable belief to believe someone committed an offense is not at all likely to rise to such a level.
Oh, and being acquitted or not prosecuted does not mean you are innocent, it merely means that the prosecutor failed to meet the burden of proof or dropped the matter because they did not believe they could meet their burden. Legally speaking. Sexual assault and child abuse cases are notoriously dropped for reasons that have nothing to do with belief of guilt, and everything to do with the ability to prove the case.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
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cdwjava
There is no provision in the law for you to be "made whole" by virtues of being acquitted in a court of law, or if the case was dropped for whatever reason. If there was some form of egregious conduct committed by someone, you can hire an attorney to sue them. But, reasonable belief to believe someone committed an offense is not at all likely to rise to such a level.
Oh, and being acquitted or not prosecuted does not mean you are innocent, it merely means that the prosecutor failed to meet the burden of proof or dropped the matter because they did not believe they could meet their burden. Legally speaking. Sexual assault and child abuse cases are notoriously dropped for reasons that have nothing to do with belief of guilt, and everything to do with the ability to prove the case.
I am not sure what you mean. Are you claiming the police can arrest someone and destroy their property, and not have to reimburse the person if their case is dismissed in the interest of Justice not your personal politics?
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
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Daniel Palos
I am not sure what you mean. Are you claiming the police can arrest someone and destroy their property, and not have to reimburse the person if their case is dismissed in the interest of Justice not your personal politics?
If the person does not have damages, no they do not have to reimburse the arrested absent a law that says they do. Destroyed property may be subject to reimbursement but would hang on the full facts of the case. That's as plain english as we can make it for ya.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
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free9man
If the person does not have damages, no they do not have to reimburse the arrested absent a law that says they do. Destroyed property may be subject to reimbursement but would hang on the full facts of the case. That's as plain english as we can make it for ya.
In this case there were economic and property damages. A claim has already been made with the State claims branch which has apparently been denied without cause.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
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Daniel Palos
In this case there were economic and property damages. A claim has already been made with the State claims branch which has apparently been denied without cause.
Then you sue. Absent egregious conduct, you can expect to either lose or be given go away money. What economic and property damages did you suffer?
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
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free9man
Then you sue. Absent egregious conduct, you can expect to either lose or be given go away money. What economic and property damages did you suffer?
a crop i had under cultivation and the grow shelter. along with economic damages as a result.
How do i sue with no money?
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
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Daniel Palos
a crop i had under cultivation and the grow shelter. along with economic damages as a result.
What economic damages, the proceeds of your pot crop? A court is highly unlikely to give you anything for that. I'm guessing that's why the government agency denied your claim.
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Daniel Palos
How do i sue with no money?
That's the fun of our court system. No money, no suit. You can try to find an attorney to represent you pro bono. Otherwise, you are SOL.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest of Justic
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free9man
What economic damages, the proceeds of your pot crop? A court is highly unlikely to give you anything for that. I'm guessing that's why the government agency denied your claim.
That's the fun of our court system. No money, no suit. You can try to find an attorney to represent you pro bono. Otherwise, you are SOL.
I had a valid pot recommendation at the time. I was doing nothing illegal. The Court proved it by dismissing the Case in the Interest of Justice not Politics.
And, it is another reason for insisting on equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation, to be able to save up for an attorney.
Where do you find "surgeons at law when a doctor at law may not be enough?"
Can I file a general civil suit pro se, for free with the appropriate Court?
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Daniel Palos
I had a valid pot recommendation at the time. I was doing nothing illegal. The Court proved it by dismissing the Case in the Interest of Justice not Politics.
The fact that the matter was dropped does NOT mean you were "innocent." Even so, so long as the police and the prosecutor's office had probable cause to make the arrest and pursue the legal action, they are generally going to be immune from any claims regarding their otherwise reasonable actions.
You can always try and sue pro se, but, you will be held to much the same standard as an attorney and it can be a long and tedious process for a case that you likely stand little chance of winning. But, it's your time and money to waste.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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Daniel Palos
In this case it is. The jury was hung six to six in the original case. I had to come up with a Writ for the district attorney to ask for a dismissal in the interest of justice.
I prefer to win my arguments.
Once again, a "dismissal" does not legally mean "innocent."
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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Daniel Palos
I was not proved guilty, so yes, it means I am innocent simply Because I was not proved guilty. You must presume not assume, innocence, in my case.
In our legal system "not guilty" does not equal "innocent". Not guilty simply means that the state couldn't prove guilt. The defendant could have actually been guilty even though the state couldn't prove it.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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Daniel Palos
I was not proved guilty, so yes, it means I am innocent simply Because I was not proved guilty. You must presume not assume, innocence, in my case.
All because you believe it to be so does not mean it is. Legal innocence is a different matter entirely. But, you aren't here to learn, you are here to rant. So, have fun.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
Many people are aquitted of crimes (or have their charges dismissed). They are not entitled to be "made whole."
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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Taxing Matters
In our legal system "not guilty" does not equal "innocent". Not guilty simply means that the state couldn't prove guilt. The defendant could have actually been guilty even though the state couldn't prove it.
Is the term "innocent until proven guilty" a false statement?
Example: If the police have enough evidence to make an arrest (which isn't much) but not enough evidence to proceed to trial, and they drop the charges, is that person never innocent of those original charges that were dropped?
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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CONNOR99
Is the term "innocent until proven guilty" a false statement?
Example: If the police have enough evidence to make an arrest (which isn't much) but not enough evidence to proceed to trial, and they drop the charges, is that person never innocent of those original charges that were dropped?
Courts don't decide innocence they decide guilt.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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PayrolGuy
Courts don't decide innocence they decide guilt.
You did not answer the question...but maybe you did not intend to.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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CONNOR99
Is the term "innocent until proven guilty" a false statement?
Example: If the police have enough evidence to make an arrest (which isn't much) but not enough evidence to proceed to trial, and they drop the charges, is that person never innocent of those original charges that were dropped?
Innocence is a presumption. It's also immaterial to David's rants. Even if he was found innocent, pardoned by the president, and God himself opened up the skies and cast a beam of light on him, THERE'S NO OBLIGATION ON THE STATE'S PART TO MAKE HIM "WHOLE." That's not how the justice system works. That's not how any of this works.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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flyingron
Innocence is a presumption. It's also immaterial to David's rants. Even if he was found innocent, pardoned by the president, and God himself opened up the skies and cast a beam of light on him, THERE'S NO OBLIGATION ON THE STATE'S PART TO MAKE HIM "WHOLE." That's not how the justice system works. That's not how any of this works.
So, is the term "innocent until proven guilty" a false statement? Yes or no?
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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CONNOR99
So, is the term "innocent until proven guilty" a false statement? Yes or no?
It is true, in that, innocent is the opposite of guilty and one isn't legally guilty until they are found to be in a court of law.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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PayrolGuy
It is true, in that, innocent is the opposite of guilty and one isn't legally guilty until they are found to be in a court of law.
So, when charges are dropped that person is no longer innocent of that illegal act? Further, when a person is arrested on a charge, he can never be considered innocent of that illegal act?
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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CONNOR99
So, when charges are dropped that person is no longer innocent of that illegal act? Further, when a person is arrested on a charge, he can never be considered innocent of that illegal act?
That is not even close to what I wrote.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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CONNOR99
So, when charges are dropped that person is no longer innocent of that illegal act? Further, when a person is arrested on a charge, he can never be considered innocent of that illegal act?
I can't believe I'm responding to this...and reread your first sentence. Proofreading is your friend, even what you are generally an incoherent ranter.
Charges being dismissed are not an indication of guilt or innocence. They are an indication of a lack of sufficient evidence to convict. Dismissal doesn't mean that charges cannot be refiled upon the discovery of new evidence, either.
As to innocence, the courts cannot determine if you are innocent, only you truly know that for certain. The courts can say that you don't meet the criteria to be determined guilty but that doesn't equate to innocent.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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Mark47n
I can't believe I'm responding to this...and reread your first sentence. Proofreading is your friend, even what you are generally an incoherent ranter.
Charges being dismissed are not an indication of guilt or innocence. They are an indication of a lack of sufficient evidence to convict. Dismissal doesn't mean that charges cannot be refiled upon the discovery of new evidence, either.
As to innocence, the courts cannot determine if you are innocent, only you truly know that for certain. The courts can say that you don't meet the criteria to be determined guilty but that doesn't equate to innocent.
A judge can also dismiss a case on the onset, if the judge feels that the DA had no valid grounds to prosecute. That doesn't even find someone innocent, it just comes a lot closer than an acquittal does. The only time that a court can actually call someone innocent is if they really did not do it, AND the real perp is discovered.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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CONNOR99
Is the term "innocent until proven guilty" a false statement?
It's neither true nor false.
"Innocent until proven guilty" is a shorthand way of saying the following: In the context of a criminal trial (and nowhere else), the jury (and no one else) must presume the defendant to be innocent until the prosecution proves the defendant to be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Unless the prosecution meets that burden, the jury must return a verdict of not guilty.
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CONNOR99
Example: If the police have enough evidence to make an arrest (which isn't much) but not enough evidence to proceed to trial, and they drop the charges, is that person never innocent of those original charges that were dropped?
First of all, the police don't "proceed to trial." Second, you're missing a step here. Once a person has been arrested on suspicion of having committed some crime, the next step is to determine whether or not criminal charges will be filed. That decision is made by the prosecuting attorney (not the police). In any event, whether the prosecutor decides not to file charges or whether charges are filed and dismissed at some point prior to trial, whether the defendant is or isn't perceived as "innocent" is a matter of subjective opinion. There is no legal status attached to that.
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PayrolGuy
It is true, in that, innocent is the opposite of guilty
I don't agree with this. The opposite of guilty is not guilty, and "not guilty" and "innocent" are not the same thing. You wrote earlier in this thread that "Courts don't decide innocence," but that's not entirely accurate. Courts tying criminal cases only determine guilt of the absence of guilt and do not make findings of "innocence." However, in certain proceedings (typically in the field of post-conviction relief) a court may make a finding of innocence.
Think of it like this:
"Guilty" means that the prosecutor convinced the jury that the defendant did the crime.
"Not guilty" means that the prosecutor failed to convince the jury that the defendant did the crime. The defendant may or may not have done the crime; we don't know.
"Innocent" means that the court was convinced that the defendant did not do the crime.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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The only time that a court can actually call someone innocent is if they really did not do it, AND the real perp is discovered.
Fair enough, but this is not a common occurrence and generally doesn't apply to what is being discussed here. A dismissal of charges is not an indication of guilt or innocence, just a lack of evidence or interest in prosecution.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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CONNOR99
So, when charges are dropped that person is no longer innocent of that illegal act?
If charges are filed and subsequently dropped, then the defendant is neither guilty nor not guilty. "Innocent" has no meaning in this context.
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CONNOR99
Further, when a person is arrested on a charge, he can never be considered innocent of that illegal act?
Considered by whom? There are folks who "consider" O.J. Simpson to have been innocent of killing his ex-wife and her friend. Notably, however, his acquittal did not equate to a finding of "innocence." If it had, then it would not have been possible for a civil jury to have found him liable for those deaths.
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Re: How to "Be Made Whole" After the Dismissal of an Arrest in the Interest
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CONNOR99
So, is the term "innocent until proven guilty" a false statement? Yes or no?
It doesn't matter. Guilty or innocent, he has no right to "be made whole."